Bahamuts fluid list of mono GSC

[Hive Bahamut]

So now that I have a handful of 9th games under the wrap, I am curious as to how my list evolves. With Nids I am all over the place, but more or less have a core of GSC. I will start with the variation of the Brigade I was building up to in 8th. I think if I can find a way to make the Grinders work we are ok keeping the Brigade.


++ Brigade Detachment 0CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [101 PL, 12CP, 1,997pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Cult Creed: The Bladed Cog

Detachment CP

+ HQ +

Jackal Alphus [4 PL, 75pts]

Patriarch [7 PL, 135pts]: Power: Mass Hypnosis, Power: Undying Vigour, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Born Survivor

Primus [4 PL, 85pts]: Bonesword

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 40pts]
. 4x Acolyte Hybrid: 4x Autopistol, 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Cultist Knife, 4x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 40pts]
. 4x Acolyte Hybrid: 4x Autopistol, 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Cultist Knife, 4x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 90pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Flamer): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Flamer
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 90pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Flamer): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Flamer
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 90pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Flamer): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Flamer
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 80pts]
. 7x Neophyte Hybrid: 7x Autogun, 7x Autopistol, 7x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

+ Elites +

Aberrants [9 PL, 200pts]
. 4x Aberrant (Hammer): 4x Heavy Power Hammer, 4x Rending Claw
. Aberrant Hypermorph (Improvised): Heavy Improvised Weapon

Aberrants [9 PL, 200pts]
. 4x Aberrant (Hammer): 4x Heavy Power Hammer, 4x Rending Claw
. Aberrant Hypermorph (Improvised): Heavy Improvised Weapon

Kelermorph [4 PL, 80pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 70pts]
. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber

Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 70pts]
. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber

Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 70pts]
. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber

Atalan Jackals [12 PL, 252pts]
. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Leader: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Wolfquad: Mining Laser, Shotgun
. Atalan Wolfquad: Mining Laser, Shotgun

+ Heavy Support +

Goliath Rockgrinder [6 PL, 110pts]: Heavy Mining Laser, Heavy Stubber

Goliath Rockgrinder [6 PL, 110pts]: Heavy Mining Laser, Heavy Stubber

Goliath Rockgrinder [6 PL, 110pts]: Heavy Mining Laser, Heavy Stubber

++ Total: [101 PL, 12CP, 1,997pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I will have to give the list another shot as my dice were ice last game and nothing happened at all on my side. That being said the secondaries setup are:

Scramblers/Homer depending on how safe I feel I can keep the 5 Acolytes.

Linebreaker or Engage depending on how much pressure I expect to keep on

3rd is float, but Bring it down/Assassinate etc always safe.


The hammer Aberrants can probably disappear they are way too expensive to do nothing and just wanted to try. The Ridgerunners were broken up this time to make the bike bomb, that did... Nothing Will need another box if I want to do 2x5.


Any suggestions besides dropping to Batallion? I would rather stay mono too as I see little reason to spend CP to unlock something when struggle to keep CP as it is.

[Hive Bahamut]

So after some adjustments I think I have a much better approach to that list.


++ Brigade Detachment 0CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [119 PL, 12CP, 1,995pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Cult Creed: The Bladed Cog

Detachment CP

+ HQ +

Jackal Alphus [4 PL, 75pts]

Patriarch [7 PL, 135pts]: Warlord

Primus [4 PL, 85pts]: Bonesword

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 5x Blasting Charges, 5x Cultist Knife, 5x Hand Flamer, 5x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer

Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 5x Blasting Charges, 5x Cultist Knife, 5x Hand Flamer, 5x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer

Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 5x Blasting Charges, 5x Cultist Knife, 5x Hand Flamer, 5x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer

Acolyte Hybrids [9 PL, 190pts]: Cult Icon
. 8x Acolyte Hybrid: 8x Autopistol, 8x Blasting Charges, 8x Cultist Knife, 8x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 40pts]
. 4x Acolyte Hybrid: 4x Autopistol, 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Cultist Knife, 4x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 40pts]
. 4x Acolyte Hybrid: 4x Autopistol, 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Cultist Knife, 4x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 80pts]
. 7x Neophyte Hybrid: 7x Autogun, 7x Autopistol, 7x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 80pts]
. 7x Neophyte Hybrid: 7x Autogun, 7x Autopistol, 7x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [7 PL, 130pts]
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Flamer): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Flamer
. 17x Neophyte Hybrid (Shotgun): 17x Autopistol, 17x Blasting Charges, 17x Shotgun
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

+ Elites +

Kelermorph [4 PL, 80pts]

Locus [3 PL, 45pts]

Nexos [3 PL, 55pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Achilles Ridgerunners [12 PL, 210pts]
. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber
. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber
. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber

Atalan Jackals [8 PL, 120pts]
. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Leader: Demolition Charge, Shotgun

Atalan Jackals [8 PL, 120pts]
. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun
. Atalan Leader: Demolition Charge, Shotgun

+ Heavy Support +

Goliath Rockgrinder [6 PL, 110pts]: Heavy Mining Laser, Heavy Stubber

Goliath Rockgrinder [6 PL, 110pts]: Heavy Mining Laser, Heavy Stubber

Goliath Rockgrinder [6 PL, 110pts]: Heavy Mining Laser, Heavy Stubber

++ Total: [119 PL, 12CP, 1,995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


The 3 sets of 6 Acolytes ride in the Grinders with hand Flamers, the 2 sets of 5 are for Homer/Scrambler and the rest is pretty similar to most, with only 1 big melee squad and nothing really relying on buffs (apart from bikes/acolyte)


First list I made where I feel like I am actually getting close to the right amount of troops @ 9.

[gorsameth]

Have you played with the list?
I wonder about your experience with such small units trying to survive standing on objectives.
Yes the Goliaths are tough but do they survive past a 2nd shooting phase?

[kazetanade]

First Impressions - it's a crumbly list that will really rely on the enemy not being able to take out vehicles, either because lack of guns, or because of good terrain allowing you to hide them. Using the map cover to leverage good forward positions, the small Acolytes can be used to just deny objectives while you score on yours, with respective parts doing respective damage.

Issues I find:

1. If you have more open midfield boards, your rockgrinders are overglorified metal coffins. T6 12W is not the hardest thing to remove, and although they cannot remove all 3 of them in 1 turn, they can definitely remove 1-2 of them in one round of shooting, assuming a balanced damage list. This is fine if your boards are often full of LOS Blocking or at least Dense terrain.

2. you have a lot of troops that do nothing but arent cheap. Handflamers are pretty bad due to S3 - so you need bulk and number of shots to really do work with them. The fact that they can be used out of DS now makes them much better for general DS use than out of trucks. If you want to do 5 man out of Trucks, do 5 man Twisted Helixes, so that you can use Advance + Charge strats and have natural S5 to generate more overall output (and also +1 to wound spell, Saws being optional). I'd recommend if your terrain supports Truck play, to go with a Goliath Truck instead of the Rockgrinder and bring a 10 man unit so that it's of a size that will decisively kill things (10 man 2 saws is fine in TH and +1 to wound spell, and also works for BC due to their exploding hits strategem but has slightly less range out of the truck).

3. Too many things want Lying in Wait. You have 2 bike units (that either contest hiding space with your Rock Grinders to wait for their setup, or contest LiW use for their setup) that are vulnerable to damage coming out of DS (auspex scan esq abilities) and require at least 4cp a turn to make use of in an army that's mostly starved for cp as is. I think you will need to make a choice on which one you want to keep.

4. Two BC Neophytes out of nowhere without any buffs - can be a bit hard to make them do work. Also, your Jackal Alphus is going to have a hard time lining up everyone within her aura unless you use 18" aura, which is an expensive 2cp per use (and not permanent). If you really want to use Neophyte ML drops, at least drop 3 for some consistency.

5. I get way more of a TH vibe out of this list than a BC vibe. You're literally using none of the things that makes BC great.

6. Alphus, question mark - like I said , lining a lot of guys in her buff will be hard, and both BC/TH really want their Magus with power up psychic to cast more spells. Consider the swap maybe? TH Acolytes are going to be wounding marines, even Gravis, on a 2+ with spell after all.

[Hive Bahamut]

Had a trial against Scions and it ended up 52-52 for my first tie (and not loss) for GSC in 9th. 0-3-1 now.

What survives past turn 2 is the million dollar question. Nothing in the codex does. Combined with all the restrictions, lack of rule interactions and lack of staying power I am struggling with primaries.

Noted on grinders.. Frustratingly close to being good, but a hybrid tank transport that has the cons (10" from tanks, T7/10W from transports) with neither perk (not T8/12W or 12") The Acolytes with Hand flamers actually performed decent clearing screens they reached, while the Grinders Lasers did not much before dying.

The third Neophytes were swapped for Autoguns/Webbers and did nothing but hold hold obj.

Both 5 man squads died completing Scramblers.

The 2 Neophytes with Lasers helped ruin a couple transports.



Overall the list was a mess, but an attempt at something new.

Twisted Helix was actually what I had originally wanted to try and I think will go for next game.

I can't get any worse at the game at least?! Need more practice for sure.

[kazetanade]

Not a fair statement - GSC is very hard and is extremely terrain dependant. Some of the events where they seen good showings have been extremely heavy terrain boards with 6 ruins and no LOS access to deployment zones. Watching Art of War games, more often than not their maps have the middle LOS blocker that can hide a whole army. Given enough terrain to hide in multiple places (6 ruins++) or having strong central LOSB (the big Ls) makes or breaks GSC.

You can be a high level pro like Nick Nanavanti and still lose with the army, so I'd say it isn't really a skill thing. Just keep chugging if you think it's workable, or change out if it gets too tiring.

Now if you wanted to play BC, what has worked better than expected for me is mass shooting (my cover is generally scarce enough that you can't cross midfield without being shot. It still didn't do what I wanted it to, but I didn't use enough guns.

2x3 - 3x3 Ridgerunners
3x - 5x Goliaths Trucks
5x - 6x Mining Laser Neophytes

1 melee squad
1 - 2 face squads
Buff characters

Is the general list idea. When I did the first version, I had 9 RRs and 3 Trucks, 5 Neophytes and 1 10 man Aco in truck 3.

The RRs were in Hive Cult with a Primus giving them rr1s to hit and wound on prime targets. This block did alright (although my RRs have just blown up vs whatever anti-tank being throw my way so far).

Today a lot of people are utilizing BGVs - the way I see it, having a melee unit strong enough to puncture that is good enough. I'm not a believer in Rock Saws anymore unless we're doing like 2 per 10 or something.

[Hive Bahamut]

There was a big killzone in the middle. -2" move stuff everywhere and buildings forcing a bottleneck. It was not the terrain that helped. We designed it that way though so...

That is actually the core of most of my lists, except I only have 3 Ridgerunners not 6, and only 3 Trucks.

I also think the Hand Flamers or at least regular should have some play now. 12" is not too hard to work with. 5 points or 2 is nothing.


I think part of my issue is I need more opponents. My group has dwindled to just 2 or 3 and trying to get into the stores lately with Covid has been spotty at best.


My MVP was the 20 blob, which rolled a 6 for PA then 12" for the charge. I was worried about blasts but coming from derpstrike it is easy to avoid. PA scary, as most games you pay 3CP to still fail that charge, with no rerolls anymore.

Going forward no more Brigade either. Pieces always just not lining up.

I think Saws are more relevant than ever, BUT only on 1 kill squad now instead of spamming. Anything I have on board will be naked or flamer, in a transport.

Patriarch
Alphus

3x10 Acolytes/Neophytes
3x Trucks

3x Ridgerunners

[kazetanade]

Try Table Top Simulator. There's a discord for people who wanna try getting games in. I live the opposite side of the world so I doubt I could, but the rest of you should be fine.

[Hive Bahamut]

After about 12 more games now I can firmly state that this idea is dogshit. The last 2 were against Deathwatch, and I didn't even break 20 points vs. 85 in the last one. Nids are easy play in 9th. GSC is an ally at best. Benchwarmer status.

3 games in a row I did less than 6W with 15+ Lasers. 2 games in a row I rolled 1 for PA (even building it out of lists) and only in 1 game was I ever not on the backfoot from turn 1.

I took a list with 5 Transports and 2 sets of bikes just to sit objectives. Scored 5 primary points all game.

This army is trash tier and for the 3 people that can pilot them on tournament levels good for you, you are a special snowflake, the rest of us have a dumpster fire floating down a flooded street level of mess.

My regular opponent actually applauded my efforts last game. Flawless deployment, screening and objectives, but against Astartes? Useless.

[kazetanade]

Funnily enough, GSC is ranked B by Art of War while Nids are ranked C.

I saw something about mixed GSC and Nids with some 40 or 60 Acolytes. I think they're easier to play as an ally so it's good to adapt our strategies along that line, unless you have some meta tailored playstyle with gsc to use.

[niiai]

Hmmmm... The outcome of tge result certainly is not good. But I appreciate the constructive testing you have done.

[Hive Bahamut]

The Guard ally build with Artillery is kind of fun now that we can use strats. A couple Basilisks with a few tank commanders is good. My arguement for this route is just build from AM and make a good list, instead of a mutant clone.

Nids with Kronos patrol is very easily a good staple that has board control and turn 1 damage. This is the strongest setup by far.

Allying internally is clunky and awkward and still better than mono cult.

IMO order of use:

Nids/Cult Strongest ally. Adds board presence and strong shooting. Brood bros arguably better than Gaunts at same price, but harder to get fearless.

Cult/Cult Strong but lacking any sort of primary scoring, you will fall behind and not catch up. 4arm mandatory now for melee for Auspex lost it's -1 to hit.

Cult/Militarum Can be strong but needs planning and static units don't mesh that great. At least they are all better than the equivalent in GSC.

Monocult: Might as well drop 25% of your points or play blindfolded. My favourite idea, but insanely impractical. I have used Bladed Cog almost exclusively all of 8th and 9th.

Genestealer Cult is a high skill army, I can fully admit I don't grasp the entirety. The only way this army is anything past C is in the hands of anomalies. Which is actually something I wish I would stop seeing. 1 of 6 good GSC players stomps at a tournie and the rest of us end up with 105 Abominants and 52 point Hypermorphs and they just drop kick it and move on to next FotM, while dedicated players get left with a steamy pile of dogshit.

Will continue to grind (bandwagons are for egos) but for now it will just continue to be comical to field.

Like playing checkers when your opponent is playing chess.

[Hive Bahamut]

Had an Ork game yesterday that sort of mirrored my Cult list. Orkz are mean, GSC is soft and squishy. Just did 1500 for time.

Goffs
Warboss (Da Biggest Boss CP upgrade was clutch) with Da Killa Klaw
Weird Boy (Da Jump)

30 Slugga Boys (Klaw Nob)
30 Shoots Boys (Klaw Nob)
3x 10 Gretchen

Pain Boy (for perils damage mostly)
5x Nobs (1 Klaw 4x Big Chopra)
3x1 Rokkit Kosta

2x Bonebreakaz (Red Rolla and Forktress kustom jobs)

Just sequentially going through missions it was the one after pillars in BRB (went through all tournie pack first.) The game was against Death watch

Captain
Librarian

3x10 Intercessors (1 unit each gun),

Apothecary

3x Outsider

3x Eradicator

10xBig Plasma Hellblasters

I won first and used Brutal but Kunnin trait to shuffle a little more aggressive.
Engage all Fronts
Banners
Warlord

Summary of note:

Warboss yeeted out of Bonebreaka turn 2 to punk Captain, Apothecary and 2W left on Librarian in 1 fight phase. 4++, relic Klaw AND extra wound were key here.

Bonebreakaz rolled over Bikes, 2 Eradicators, and 2 full squads of Intercessors. Goff Bonebreakaz with Red Rolla are hilarious. 12A S9 -2 2D. The one turn it hit with 14 attacks.. Insane.

Da jump is better than deepstrike with Waaagh casting all but guaranteed
Bonebreakaz make Grinders look like padded Tonka trucks
Warboss with Klaw more effective sniper than Snipers

T2 6+ hold just as well as T3 5+ when nothing looks at it.
Best collection of stratagem names in 40k. Grot Bumper? Flying 'eadbutt, long uncontrolled bursts!? We get.. "perfect ambush" which is exactly 1" when you need it!

76:24 for Orkz. One of my highest numbers and opponents lowest. And now your purple skin becomes green!

[hiveoverall]

I also play orks, wait till you try the warboss on bike with the upgrade... the mega armour big mek with da cleverest is great too as Goff (one spotted a shadow seer last saturday). BTW why 0lay shoota boyz as Goff ? That is a crime against Gork my friend
The newly redone mega dredd from FW is great too, can be outflanked for just 1cp as he is 9 power level . Did the eradicators do nothing on your BBreakas ?

[Hive Bahamut]

In house army. No purchases have been made since like 7th? Ghaz, biker boss and Buggies all look fun, but not investing right now.

Haphazard Ork army still does better than my planned out GSC. Oh well.

Yeah the Eradicators hit 2 of 6 shots and I saved 1 with Forktress.