2k Levi, new rules, new toys

[zimko]

Battalion
HQ
- Broodlord: Onslaught; RELIC: 5+ CP; SYNAPSE: give cover; WARLORD TRAITS: redeploy 2 units AND give rerolls to hit to Infantry: 140
- Swarmlord: Catalyst, Onslaught: 240
- Hive Tyrant: Paroxysm, Psychic Scream; Wings, MBSwords, LWhip + Bonesword; Murderous Size; RELIC: ignore invuls: 215
Troops
- 27 Devgants: 189
- 27 Devgants: 189
- 3 Warriors: talons, talons, a.glands; SYNAPSE: +1 to hit: 69 (nice)
- 3 Warriors: talons, talons, a.glands; SYNAPSE: +1 to hit: 69 (nice)
Elites
- 6 Hive Guard: 270
- 6 Hive Guard: 270
- Lictor
- Lictor
Heavy
- Barbed Hierodule: 275

9 CP, 2000 pts

So there's a lot to breakdown with the Levi buffs but I think this utilized a lot of the good combos we got.
For the most part, the Warriors will stick near the Hive Guard to give them +1 to hit. But on turn 1, when HG may be outranged, they can provide the Hierodule with +1 to hit.

I like the redeploy warlord trait for turn 1. There are sometimes more 'forward' positions to put Hive Guard that are risky if you don't go first. With this, I have the option of deploying in those positions, thus covering more of the board with their range (onslaught and not being kronos anymore means they're much more effective on the move, increasing their effective threat range to 41 inches), and if I don't win first turn then I can redeploy defensively. Optionally, I can also aggressively deploy the devgants and either redeploy them OR put them in strategic reserves. OR if there's a juicy target for the flyrant (like a grand master dreadknight) then I deploy him and the Swarmlord aggressively and redeploy them back if I don't get first turn or at least force my opponent to turtle up. No matter the case, this will force a smart opponent to deploy defensively, which has it's own advantages of giving us more breathing room on turn 1 and protecting us from alpha strikes.

The Hierodule gives me a long reaching ranged threat that can target aircraft on turn 1 before they move. With a +1 to hit and 3 cp for exploding 6s and +1 damage, he has a very good chance at downing aircraft. He's also an excellent target for the Broodlord's cover ability, giving him a 1+ save in both shooting and melee.

The devgants as many have mathed can put out a stupid amount of damage with the new tesla stratagem. Not being kraken tho hurts their mobility and threat range. However, if the Hive Guard and Hierodule can drop some Raiders, then the devgants will be very good in the drukhari matchup which has always given me trouble. 27 devgants on it's own could drop 2 raiders with rerolls and exploding 6s. In addition to this, they can hold objectives with weight of bodies and provide bodyguards for the Broodlord. Warp Ritual is a strong candidate for a secondary for me since the Broodlord can provide his synapse buff and WLT buff in the command phase AND still perform a psychic action after moving.

I've considered dropping the flyrant, but having that melee beatstick is so important for turn 1. It forces your opponent to protect his valuable models in a way that reduces his flexibility in deployment and movement. It's also such a neat counter to dreadknights, especially the grand master dreadknight with his 3+ invul and practical immunity to ranged weapons for a turn. He also trades very nicely into demons. And if my opponent doesn't have a great way to kill him in shooting, then the lash whip allows him to deal more damage when charged. It also of course allows him to trade into drukhari better in case they make him fight last.

Space Marines are good at the alpha strike. And this list is decent at hiding on turn 1. I don't think there's much more to say about that matchup. The Barbed Hierodule probably won't survive going 2nd but it has a low enough profile that there could be a place for him to hide as well.

[zimko]

Secondaries:

Good candidates:
To the Last: both Hive Guard units and the Hierodule
Retrieve Octarius: 2 lictors as always
Warp Ritual: 3 psykers. Funny enough, if I send the flyrant in on turn 1... his powers aren't that important... he could just warp ritual along the way before Swarmlord sends him in on turn 1
Any kill objective: Opponent's list depending
Stranglehold: In a 5 objective map this is decent, especially now that we can make units like the Hierodule into obsec.

Questionable candidates:
Engage on All Fronts: This is usually good for us but I'm not being super aggressive in melee with this army. Between the Lictors and Flyrant, I can at least get 6 points but it doesn't look good for getting much more than that.

[No One]

Looks good: only comment I'd make is LW on the warriors feels like a better tech pick than the AG, since you have no dedicated screens and are probably going to want to sit with the HG anyway. But it's a minor thing and not even sure if it's better. Other thing's toxin/AG may be better than a gaunt/warrior stuff: toxin to help with breakpoints (stuff like redemptor at 13 wounds, or sometimes for 5 wound Chars), AG just nice.

But yeah, I like it: looks similar to some of the lists I've been putting together. Barb for stealers and odds and sods, because I have no 'dules, and just with Levi over Kronos. Which...on looking at how the list came together, mono Levi isn't as unreasonable as my first thought: basically sacrificing damage to save points on HQ, but you can get the damage back with CP. You go CP negative over a game, but pts positive, and can be CP neutral on the most important early turns. Light on dedicated screening and tech, but the damage is definitely there, and you've got 60 devilgants.

[zimko]

The glands were just filler points since I had 6 points left over and 6 warriors. I do feel like I'm a bit light on melee and heavy on shooting. So here's an alternative list.

HQ
- Broodlord: Onslaught; RELIC: 5+ CP; SYNAPSE: give cover; WARLORD TRAITS: redeploy 2 units AND give rerolls to hit to Infantry: 140
- Swarmlord: Catalyst, Onslaught: 240
- Hive Tyrant: Paroxysm, Psychic Scream; Wings, MBSwords, LWhip + Bonesword; Murderous Size; RELIC: ignore invuls: 215
Troops
- 16 genestealers: 4 acid maws: 208
- 16 genestealers: 4 acid maws: 208
- 30 Devgants: 210
- 3 Warriors: talons, talons; SYNAPSE: +1 to hit: 66 (nice)
- 3 Warriors: talons, talons, a.glands; SYNAPSE: +1 to hit: 69 (nice)
Elites
- 6 Hive Guard: 270
- 6 Hive Guard: 270
- Lictor: 37
- Lictor: 37
- Pyrovore: 28

9 CP, 1998 pts

I dropped the Hierodule and 24 devgants (making a full unit of 30) to gain 2 units of 16 genestealers and a pyrovore.

[No One]

zimko said:

The glands were just filler points since I had 6 points left over and 6 warriors.

I know, just think that a single LW for each squad to stop easy consolidates might do more for you (same pts). Something I'm thinking about is if the BL is worth over just a neuro without anything chunky to chuck cover on: nothing super amazing you could get I don't think, though pyro->garg for speedy Fly obsec is interesting, and dense is still solid.

[zimko]

It doesn't hurt to throw the Broodlord's cover buff onto Genestealers before sending a unit in. They'll still die but they may absorb a little bit more. The devgants are also fine if I want to put them in the middle to cover the Broodlord while he performs Warp Ritual. Also, the Broodlord himself can kill small units with his melee. Both can smite, and the broodlord is 3 inches faster. So there's really a lot of advantages to a Broodlord over Neuro.

[No One]

zimko said:

It doesn't hurt to throw the Broodlord's cover buff onto Genestealers before sending a unit in. They'll still die but they may absorb a little bit more.

Eh, only helps against AP0. Which I mean, totally exists, but I think at point blank there's not going to be too much firepower diverted that cares about a 4+ over a 5++.

Devilgants is definitely, but personally I'm thinking they'll often strat reserve on, then...well, unlikely to just evaporate, but probably die to the point where dense doesn't help hugely. Still probably worth it, but 45 pt isn't nothing. Combat's fine, though smite you lose a power for BL. Movement...I dunno, it might play out different but it feels like you'll want to stick back within 9" of HG anyway.

I dunno: I suppose it does seem worth, but more like a 'nice to have' thing if you're not bringing e.g. warrior brick/'dule or something?

[zimko]

Perhaps a Tyranid Prime instead of a Broodlord? Warp Ritual becomes more difficult but not impossible. However, the synpase ability from a Prime puts genestealers to another level.

16 genestealers with full rerolls and the Prime's buff and exploding 6s vs T8...
64 attacks, 19.5 auto-wounds and 65 hits.
65 hits is 10.9 wounds.

So 19.5 wounds at AP -1 (or 3) and 10.9 wounds at AP -4 against a T8 target. Normally we'd be looking at about 14 AP -4 wounds and that's it.

I just realized that the Prime's synapse buff is old-school rending claws.

[No One]

zimko said:

However, the synpase ability from a Prime puts genestealers to another level.

Possibly: I think +1 to hit is better, esp since it's awkward with rend. But with the 2 HG there's not really a 'spare' +1, so it's less a worry about opportunity cost of what goes where.

[zimko]

Oct 18, 2021 15:43:18 GMT No One said:

zimko said:

However, the synpase ability from a Prime puts genestealers to another level.

Possibly: I think +1 to hit is better, esp since it's awkward with rend. But with the 2 HG there's not really a 'spare' +1, so it's less a worry about opportunity cost of what goes where.

This we can math. For T8 I already shows the prime's ability is far better by like 15 wounds.

Another good target is ork vehicles at T6 and 4+ saves.

+1 to hit, tesla and rerolls from 16 genestealers gets you... 19 wounds at ap 3 or 4 and 11 wounds at ap 1. Almost enough to kill a full unit of buggies (assuming you survived overwatch).
prime's rending, tesla and rerolls from 16 genestealers gets you... 19 wounds at ap 3 or 4 and 11 wounds at ap 1. So it's exactly the same against T6, 4+ targets.

Against T4 or lower I suspect the +1 to hit is better, but such targets don't typically need buffs to kill. So I like the utility of being able to punch thru high toughness targets with genestealers without giving up +1 to hit on a unit of Hive Guard.

[zimko]

On further consideration, I don't think a Prime's buff is worth it. The Prime himself sucks too much and the buff to the genestealers against T5+ targets is minor and not needed when running 12 hive guard, a super tyrant and swarmlord, all of which can handle T8 targets just fine.

[zimko]

Hiding 2 units of genestealers AND 2 units of hive guard will be tough. And there's not enough buffs to go around. So I've updated the list by removing a unit of genestealers to add 2 units of 20 hormagaunts for screening, stealing objectives and engage.

HQ
- Broodlord: Onslaught; RELIC: 5+ CP; SYNAPSE: give cover; WARLORD TRAITS: redeploy 2 units AND give rerolls to hit to Infantry: 140
- Swarmlord: Catalyst, Onslaught: 240
- Hive Tyrant: Paroxysm, Psychic Scream; Wings, MBSwords, LWhip + Bonesword; Murderous Size; RELIC: ignore invuls: 215
Troops
- 16 genestealers: 4 acid maws: 208
- 20 Hormagaunts: 120
- 20 Hormagaunts: 120
- 30 Devgants: 210
- 3 Warriors: talons, talons; SYNAPSE: +1 to hit: 66
- 3 Warriors: talons, talons; SYNAPSE: +1 to hit: 66
Elites
- 6 Hive Guard: 270
- 6 Hive Guard: 270
- Lictor: 37
- Lictor: 37

9 CP, 1999 pts

[tomb]

Oct 19, 2021 3:34:23 GMT zimko said:

Hiding 2 units of genestealers AND 2 units of hive guard will be tough. And there's not enough buffs to go around. So I've updated the list by removing a unit of genestealers to add 2 units of 20 hormagaunts for screening, stealing objectives and engage.

HQ
- Broodlord: Onslaught; RELIC: 5+ CP; SYNAPSE: give cover; WARLORD TRAITS: redeploy 2 units AND give rerolls to hit to Infantry: 140
- Swarmlord: Catalyst, Onslaught: 240
- Hive Tyrant: Paroxysm, Psychic Scream; Wings, MBSwords, LWhip + Bonesword; Murderous Size; RELIC: ignore invuls: 215
Troops
- 16 genestealers: 4 acid maws: 208
- 20 Hormagaunts: 120
- 20 Hormagaunts: 120
- 30 Devgants: 210
- 3 Warriors: talons, talons; SYNAPSE: +1 to hit: 66
- 3 Warriors: talons, talons; SYNAPSE: +1 to hit: 66
Elites
- 6 Hive Guard: 270
- 6 Hive Guard: 270
- Lictor: 37
- Lictor: 37

9 CP, 1999 pts

Great list.

I think I'd be looking to swap back to the two Devil gaunts squads, they are just so good coming on from reserve. Save the SL sling for the Stealers or Hormaguants. I guess swap Horms for Devs and Devs at 20 from reserve with the new rules may be enough?

[nackanid]

Oct 19, 2021 3:34:23 GMT zimko said:

Hiding 2 units of genestealers AND 2 units of hive guard will be tough. And there's not enough buffs to go around. So I've updated the list by removing a unit of genestealers to add 2 units of 20 hormagaunts for screening, stealing objectives and engage.

HQ
- Broodlord: Onslaught; RELIC: 5+ CP; SYNAPSE: give cover; WARLORD TRAITS: redeploy 2 units AND give rerolls to hit to Infantry: 140
- Swarmlord: Catalyst, Onslaught: 240
- Hive Tyrant: Paroxysm, Psychic Scream; Wings, MBSwords, LWhip + Bonesword; Murderous Size; RELIC: ignore invuls: 215
Troops
- 16 genestealers: 4 acid maws: 208
- 20 Hormagaunts: 120
- 20 Hormagaunts: 120
- 30 Devgants: 210
- 3 Warriors: talons, talons; SYNAPSE: +1 to hit: 66
- 3 Warriors: talons, talons; SYNAPSE: +1 to hit: 66
Elites
- 6 Hive Guard: 270
- 6 Hive Guard: 270
- Lictor: 37
- Lictor: 37

9 CP, 1999 pts

So you can take +1 to hit twice...?! What?! That flew over my head! 
The list is very strong from my point of view. The only thing is to switch the relic on the hive tyrant to -1 to wound. Ignore invuls is fine, especially with MS, but still thinks a hive tyrant that survives longer is better  

[zimko]

I agree on the -1 to wound relic. I'm also swayed by a tyranid prime instead of broodlord. I'm also switching to a large brick of warriors for defending the hive guard and securing an exposed objective. So here's my latest update.

HQ
- Flyrant: venom cannon, MRC, -1 to wound relic: Paroxysm, P. Scream: 205
- Swarmlord: Catalyst, Onslaught: 240
- Prime: reroll hits, redeploy, s. link, CP regen relic: 90
Troops
- 16 genestealers: 208
- 16 genestealers: 208
- 24 devgants: 168
- 9 warriors with s. link, enhanced resistance: 168
- 3 warriors with s. link: 66
Elites
- 6 HG: 270
- 6 HG: 270
- Lictor: 37
Fast Attack
- 10 Gargoyles: 70

9 CP, 1997 pts