No One's 9th Ed Lists

[No One]

tomb said:

Thanks for the game report.

Since your write up have you thought more about Ravenours? At 4-5 man will they become our best utility secondary unit?

Had another game trying out some variations (https://pastebin.com/p7JQgtWn). Vs TSons: basically not amazing terrain, he got T1 and teleported both termi squads up. Nuked Swarmy and most of the HG squad, half moved dima. Could possibly have deployed better/used redeploy better here, so far finding it difficult to not get counter-deployed badly. but also, double teleport and he had redeploy as well, so...not great options there. Not sure how I feel about it.
I pushed up harpies to flip his flank objective (hold 2/3 and only a 5 man rhubric on it), breaking through+HG+combat managed it even with -1D from shooting strat. -1 wound flyrant went over, killed some termis and tagged them both (3 wounds, -1 to wound and -1 D just wrecked their melee damage).
Flyrant died horribly to psychic, dima died to shooting.
Ignores invul flyrant killed some spawn, mawloc finished off a peril'd Char, ravs grabbed obsec and flipped a point in combination with a harpy, and killed some termis with breaking through from harpy. Also again never remembered mines.

He called it here: I didn't have amazing damage left (both harpies in combat, one with termis so slap fight), only the ignores invul flyrant. Which...well, he'd have 1 CP, mawloc closer than the flyrant, and no way to really get there with shooting. Could probably have still focused down with psychic, maybe some shooting to finish off (would have required a tele though), and then ignored my remaining MCs, 'cause termi obsec wins when I've got no more Synapse and no real damage.

But even if that all happened, he was way behind on scoring (5/0 on primary vs my 15/15, nothing on grind, couldn't get anything on mutate this turn and potentially the next).

[haazelthorn]

Greetings!



A very nice list using the CS ruleset!

I did not know that You could mix the powers, between codex ones and the supplement ones. That changes everything!

I always liked Your lists, the main reason for this was You did not abused the FW models

[kubimaniac]

Thanks for the report! So the harpies were actually good in the end.

How did the mawloc do? (I think you confused the dima with the mawloc at some point)

Also can the Flyrant with BS and LWBS take Slayer Sabres (or probably you meant the Synaptic Hive Blades)?

[No One]

haazelthorn said:

I always liked Your lists, the main reason for this was You did not abused the FW models

I own no FW and (despite playing almost exclusively on TTS) I like to play using stuff I have access to IRL. But a friend's lending me some stuff, so dima goes in. But also, I think FW is...well, better than Codex in most instances, but the fact that you can stack flyrants puts them ahead of dimas, and the 'dules suffer from terrain issues, pretty happy taking most of the pts in Codex stuff (FW still generally better than our <10" Codex MCs though).

kubimaniac said:

How did the mawloc do? (I think you confused the dima with the mawloc at some point)

...Woops. Yeah, the mawloc is the one who finished the Char, preventing him getting grind again. Probably wouldn't have done much more directly, except eating 'closest' powers for flyrant. Which, if it meant the flyrant didn't die, would've been very big. Otherwise eh, limited output and plenty of obsec to deny the '12 models' thing, and no obsec strat with flyrant dead.

Also can the Flyrant with BS and LWBS take Slayer Sabres (or probably you meant the Synaptic Hive Blades)?

The answer is yes and yes.

[No One]

Been playing lurk MCs and doing well so far pre-nerfs. Not sure if I should try something different, but for the moment just sticking with what's working and shifting it up a bit.

Kronos ((Lurk) Territorial Instincts) Patrol Detachment

No Force Org Slot:
Tyrant Guard: 3xTyrant Guard (Scything) [120 pts, 8 PL]
Zoanthropes: 3xZoanthrope, Power: Neuroparasite [150 pts, 7 PL]

HQ1: Winged Hive Tyrant: Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Relic: The Reaper of Obliterax, Adrenal Glands, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Neuroparasite [225 pts, 11 PL]
HQ2: Neurothrope: Warlord Trait: Synaptic Tendrils, Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught [100 pts, 5 PL]

TR1: Tyranid Warriors: 3xTyranid Warrior (Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords) [90 pts, 4 PL]

HS1: Tyrannofex: Acid Spray [190 pts, 10 PL]
HS2: Tyrannofex: Acid Spray [190 pts, 10 PL]


Kronos ((Lurk) Territorial Instincts) Patrol Detachment

HQ1: Winged Hive Tyrant: Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Relic: The Maw-claws of Thyrax, Warlord, Power: Catalyst, Power: Paroxysm [210 pts, 11 PL]

TR1: Hormagaunts: 10xHormagaunt [80 pts, 4 PL]

EL1: Pyrovores: 3xPyrovore [120 pts, 6 PL]
EL2: Pyrovores: Pyrovore [40 pts, 2 PL]

HS1: Biovores: 3xBiovore [135 pts, 9 PL]

FL1: Harpy: Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis, 2xHeavy Venom Cannon [230 pts, 11 PL]

DT1: Tyrannocyte: 5xDeathspitter, Adaptive Physiology: Synaptic Enhancement [120 pts, 8 PL]

-2 CP relics
-1 CP WLT

Total: 2000 pts, 1 CP


Not really down much in the way of threats (basically just drops a harpy and some shuffling about to come out only a bit behind: and considering I've run over almost every opponent who hasn't also gotten hit...), am concerned about how I win in any situation other than just a brutal beatdown. Banners, and then two from MI/grind/kill, while having a lot of primary and midfield pressure to hopefully deny my opponent easy secondaries. BeL/Engage seem too difficult to score reliably, essentially struggling where I'm weak on secondaries (i.e. opponent just sits back and goes 'come at me or lose', and thus can safely pick off/screen anything cheap/fast I send over, while nothing's really cheap enough to do so every turn...).

I've got about 200 pts of 'flex' I've been playing with. Ended up going with bios: think they could give some avenues to restrict my opponent's secondary options (e.g. objective actions), and possibly force them to be more exposed to enable grind better (also just general mobility restrictions into e.g. nids/knights). Then a pyro just for backfield banner/screening. However, not sure how I'll cope with armies which have strong secondaries to just not interact, on maps where good primary can be scored without going to mid. For example, sisters, which also got buffed. I think the biovores should be pretty strong there, try and block their melee (either just through ER, or MWs, which sisters don't really have the wounds to tank), but doesn't really give me an answer to melta or how to win with scoring. But hopefully I've got enough here, and horms/t-cyte or just throw away a flyrant to flip an objective if I can't directly pressure them off enough.

[Jbizzy]

Any reason you are sticking with Kronos? Losing the -1 AP at half range for Lurk makes the +4" range seem pretty weak.

[piersonsmuppet]

Jul 7, 2022 15:19:46 GMT Jbizzy said:

Any reason you are sticking with Kronos? Losing the -1 AP at half range for Lurk makes the +4" range seem pretty weak.

Kronos range increase for Tfexes and Pyros is very good for the armies that will just sit back. Half range AP does nothing into that type of matchup.

[Jbizzy]

If you can score by castling up and sitting back, I guess.

[No One]

Jbizzy said:

If you can score by castling up and sitting back, I guess.

I want to be able to plonk down on a mid objective and threaten my opponent's. With extra range, LoS is the more limiting factor on that, and means I'm mostly immune to poke from out of range (or at least that's the idea). Also +4" on pyro pod is really nice, though not as needed with only one unit. It also gives symbio for some more AT into T7 (mainly), as well as T5 with my S5/S9 stuff. And 28" on secondaries/40" on HVC is occasionally helpful.

But also, lurk alternatives are...what? Behemoth is basically irrelevant, being mostly shooting, and the melee (flyrants) don't really benefit from +1 to wound. Little bit of flex for charges with my shooting units, which are OK in combat, but still not really what I want to be doing. Gorgon offers a bit of flex with shooting into T7/8, but that's about it. Not really any custom traits that really seem helpful. Jorm is...a maybe, but 18" when I want to push up onto the midboard is really limiting: I was playing it before swapping Kronos, and it basically never mattered. Either I was too close, already getting dense, it got ignored, or the shooting I neg'd was basically irrelevant. Power's a neat option into AoC but otherwise meh, and with looking to MI I don't think it's anything to worry about.

[Jbizzy]

Disappointing that Jorm's trait didn't come into play more, I overlooked 18" on the now obsec monsters trying to push midfield being pointless. I've been waffling between Jorm and Kronos for the same style of play - creep up and control the mid while trying to keep range on the rest of the field. Symbiostorm is a great power, when the stars align to change the wound roll...

[No One]

Had my first game with the list, got run over by Kraken nids who went first. I made some definite mistakes and some probably incorrect plays, so it was a worse loss than it should've been. But it definitely was a tricky position to be put in, where I was locked into my DZ T1 with no ability to get onto objectives: I split focus too much (see: mistakes) and didn't properly punish the aggression, so not an untenable problem, but it's an issue for a lot of my gameplan. I can't get onto objectives, I can't score (including secondary problems), I can't open sightlines and the biovores are mediocre if there's no good spots to put down spores and screen areas. Also, lost a t-fex T1 because I really don't have anything in the way of effective screens, and am essentially relying on overwatch/token horms: which definitely can work, and they should hopefully need to commit more than the t-fex costs, but still optimistic as a sole option.

So, thinking of basically dropping the biovores for venoms: with fight last and actually relevant defensive/offensive stats, offer decent screening options, improve the durability as a whole, and are fine to just throw on an objective for banners if needed. Also cranial, I guess. Then the pyro for a lone biovore: does the same 'chill on a backfield objective and raise a banner if needed' for 5 more pts, but if I need it to stay back there, it's more useful to throw spores around, and even two spores can be potentially annoying. Leaves me 25 pts, which I don't really know what to do with: could just throw some upgrades around. Or potentially drop AG+synapse and grab another biovore or something, but not a fan of that.


The perils of only playing in events, I'm locked into lists with no testing, so the biovores will have a couple more chances to redeem themselves, but I think they suffer too much from going 2nd: they can prevent a losing position if given time, but really struggle to recover from a losing position, and do nothing passively.

[Master Chief]

How did you lose the tfex T1?

Did he have the 4++?

[No One]

Nah, part of what I was talking about with probable mistakes: essentially I had little that could threaten him until he committed, and he wouldn't commit while I had a 4++ and nothing was really happening (and I talked it out a bit afterwards and I read it correctly). So I was wanting to either wait until he committed, then have it up to grind when he'd be in a position to commit everything, or use it once I was actually in a position where I'd be forcing him to respond. And then a bit of screening and forcing him to either play risky, or overcommit to deal with the t-fex. Which almost worked: he had to charge from behind terrain to not eat overwatch, which limited his ability to deal with the horms, and meant he was at 'likely' rather than 'guaranteed' (admittedly I gave him a 5" when being 0.1" back would've been a 6" and he would've made either way, but still). And even then, t-fex is chonk and he had to throw in a 2nd unit of ravs (which needed a long charge: no rrs for either, though that was more his misplay) and I'm pretty sure only just killed it. So he committed 350 pts to kill 270, and in a risky manner: not the worst trade, and if I'd capitalised better by decisively killing rather than spreading my damage too much (the definite mistake), possibly even worth. But I also thought it'd be a bit harder than it ended up being.

Alternatively, I accept it's only useful as a deterrent, pop it T1, he basically skips his T1 and that lets me position as I want, and get a bit of chip damage in from harpy/pyro pod.

[Master Chief]

It is a lot of time that I say that without the 4++ even the tfex dies.

There are so many things that will nullify or almost an armour 2+, is just not the same treat level without the 4++.

He is slow and for where you need it he will need the 4++ to survive, otherwise he will not have the desired effect during the game.

At least that is how I see it.

Against many armies that 4++ means that the t fex life span is doubled, because many things have a disgraceful high AP and delete armours easily.

Even if they have completely different roles, for me a monster like a tfex or a harpy needs a 4++.

The huge difference between a harpy and a tfex is that the harpy has the range and the mobility to stay out of danger if needed while the tfex doesn't, so in case you bring harpy AND tfex the 4++ should go on the tfex.

[No One]

Um...yes? I'm aware that a t-fex without 4++ is a lot less durable than with a 4++? That's...precisely why I made the play I made, so that I'd ideally have the 4++ up for the turn where it'd have the biggest impact (when he'd be able to, and almost forced to, throw everything in, which as Kraken would mostly be AP-4 or AP-5), rather than 'wasting' it as purely a deterrent measure. Doesn't mean it's the 'correct' play, but I didn't not choose it because I thought 4++ was a negligible defensive buff or anything. (Also picked neuro imperative for a bit of defence against his 'cepter and to try and shut down his early casts, which helped other stuff, and also shut down his shard lure IIRC, so it's not like my imperatives were twiddling their thumbs).

But also, T8 17 wounds is a lot to chew through: a single 7 man rav with Swarmy buff (main threat he threw in) has only a 1.4% chance to kill outright. He'd chunked off some wounds with a harpy (and split fire there, which was either a mistake or just a tad risky depending on how you look at it), so it was up to a still quite unlikely 20%. Even adding the other 3 man he managed to make in (which without onslaught was a decently long charge), still bumps it up to only ~70%. And it's not like I bracket in shooting or care about shooting into combat: still leave the t-fex as an easy/free kill, but I'd at least have gotten some more damage in.

Basically, I thought (correctly) that any play to kill the t-fex would be risky and force him to commit fairly aggressively: I underestimated how risky, since I thought he'd have more issues clearing the horms without exposing himself to overwatch, but it was a risk I didn't mind taking. Even in hindsight I'm not sure if that gameplan was incorrect: it 'forced' quite a risky play that would've, at worst, ended up with an OK trade in my favour. The reason I think popping the 4++ then might've been correct is less to do with preventing the t-fex dying, and more to do with making sure I could get onto the middle, where we're trading closer to my terms and I can do more with overwatch/biovores. The 4++ didn't really end up mattering too much the next turn, but I think that was more to do with my misplays then than anything else, and it definitely made an impact still, especially for the t-cyte, where it saved it from probable death and left it to go and flip an objective.

Edit: I also disagree with your last line: the harpy only has a 3+ vs 2+. While there's a lot of solid AP things around, not everything invalidates that. A t-fex also benefits from obscuring, while a harpy does not, so is essentially always a target to AT with sufficient range. And finally a 4++ lets you position more to get value from spore/aircraft base blocking.

Also specifically my list, I have 2 t-fexes. A 4++ on both just isn't happening outside imperative.