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Post by No One on May 20, 2021 1:42:55 GMT
Granted I run full Leviathan, so maybe the 2 CP cost of the patrol makes an additional 1 CP tax for the list too heavy. Basically this: it's something I've thought about, but I'm pretty CP limited, especially with the addition of the exo. And 1 CP for an extra 1-2 wounds over TS, or 2-3 spill wounds, depending on target? Not terrible, but not great: and that's with voracious. I get more from voracious, or half a double tap, or shoot stationary. |
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Post by No One on May 29, 2021 13:34:30 GMT
Had a small tournament, went 2-1: pretty happy with the list (some small tweaks): ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [73 PL, 11CP, 1,355pts] ++
Hive Fleet: Leviathan
+ Stratagems +
Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 210pts]: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Resonance Barb, Wings
. Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 210pts]: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Power: Paroxysm, Power: Psychic Scream, Warlord, Wings
. Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size
The Swarmlord [14 PL, 270pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror
+ Troops +
Hormagaunts [9 PL, 150pts]
. 25x Hormagaunt: 25x Scything Talons
Termagants [9 PL, 210pts]
. 30x Termagant (Devourer): 30x Devourer
Termagants [9 PL, 166pts]
. 8x Termagant (Devourer): 8x Devourer
. 22x Termagant (Fleshborer): 22x Fleshborer
Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 51pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 51pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
+ Elites +
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]
++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Tyranids) [32 PL, -2CP, 644pts] ++
Hive Fleet: Kronos
+ HQ +
Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Symbiostorm
+ Troops +
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]
. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]
. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth
+ Elites +
Hive Guard [12 PL, 270pts]
. 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]
+ Heavy Support +
Exocrine [9 PL, 170pts]
++ Total: [105 PL, 9CP, 1,999pts] ++
First game against Slaanesh daemons, Big Bird and Morty
++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Daemons) [60 PL, 1,085pts, 5CP] ++
+ Configuration +
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Chaos Allegiance: Slaanesh
Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]
+ Stratagems +
Rewards of Chaos (2 Relic) [-3CP]
+ HQ +
Keeper of Secrets [12 PL, 230pts, -1CP]:
Stratagems
Exalted Keeper of Secrets - Roll
Weapons
Sinistrous hand, Snapping claws, Witstealer sword
Relic
The Forbidden Gem
Psychic Powers
Delightful Agonies, Hysterical Frenzy, Smite
Keeper of Secrets [12 PL, 230pts, -1CP]:
Stratagems
Exalted Keeper of Secrets - Roll
Weapons
Sinistrous hand, Snapping claws
Relic
Soulstealer
Psychic Powers
Hysterical Frenzy, Pavane of Slaanesh, Smite
+ Troops +
Daemonettes [8 PL, 165pts]:
Wargear
Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos
. Alluress: Weapon Piercing claws
. 19x Daemonette: Weapon 19x Piercing claws
Daemonettes [8 PL, 105pts]
. Alluress: Weapon Piercing claws
. 14x Daemonette: Weapon 14x Piercing claws
Daemonettes [8 PL, 105pts]
. Alluress: Weapon Piercing claws
. 14x Daemonette: Weapon 14x Piercing claws
+ Elites +
Fiends [6 PL, 125pts]
. Blissbringer: Weapon Dissecting claws, Vicious barbed tail
. 2x Fiend: Weapon 2x Dissecting claws, 2x Vicious barbed tail
Fiends [6 PL, 125pts]
. Blissbringer: Weapon Dissecting claws, Vicious barbed tail
. 2x Fiend: Weapon 2x Dissecting claws, 2x Vicious barbed tail
++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Daemons) [22 PL, 450pts, -3CP] ++
+ Configuration +
Chaos Allegiance: Tzeentch
Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]
+ HQ +
Lord of Change [14 PL, 275pts, -1CP]:
Exalted Lord of Change: 5. Aura of Mutability
Weapons
Baleful sword, Staff of Tzeentch
Relic
The Impossible Robe
Psychic Powers
Boon of Change, Gaze of Fate, Treason of Tzeentch, Smite
+ Troops +
Horrors [8 PL, 175pts]: Daemonic Icon, Smite
. Iridescent Horror: Weapon Coruscating flames
. 19x Pink Horror: Weapon 19x Coruscating flames
++ Supreme Command Detachment +2CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [24 PL, 465pts, 2CP] ++
+ Configuration +
Cults of the Legion: Cult of Magic
Detachment Command Cost [2CP]
+ Primarch | Daemon Primarch | Supreme Commander +
Magnus the Red [24 PL, 465pts]:
Warlord - Lord of Forbidden Lore
Weapon
The Blade of Magnus
Psychic Powers
Death Hex, Diabolic Strength, Smite, Warptime, Weaver of Fate
++ Total: [106 PL, 2,000pts, 4CP] ++
Very comfortable game: with 3 layers of screening and no Fly on the keepers, Kronos for warptime, it was just a matter of shooting him, smiting him, then charging to finish off. Wasn't helped by the fact that I got first turn and denied almost literally every power (I think he got off one smite out of range of denies, gaze off once, and...literally it). Bracketed Magnus T1, he charged my horms and they basically exploded, but who cares (considering fiends, I was quite happy with that, though I had coherency to kill things out of combat if needed). Smite+shooting killed both KoS and one squad of fiends, combat killed the other, and flyrant...failed to kill 8 wound Magnus (might've got 1 through) and got almost killed in return. But his turn Magnus did nothing in psychic (I shadow'd smite, everything else was failed/denied/didn't matter), died to flyrant, and then it was just mop up on Big Bird: all his chaff was backfield so whatever. Finished 73-30, I lost one unit. Only got 6 pts on engage because I was playing so cagey: gave me the win comfortably, but left me scoring low. One thing I could've done was WWSWF: Swarmlord, hive guard and devilgants are all difficult to deal with, and would be the last to die with how I was planning to play the game. But would've left me open to something going horribly wrong with no way to come back: it wouldn't have been quite so one sided going 2nd. But on the other hand if things are going that bad, I'd probably only get 4 pts on engage (maybe 6) from DS stuff anyway, so...definitely think it would've been the right play. (My others were deploy and assassinate) Game 2: GK on scouring, blegh.
++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [63 PL, 1,115pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Detachment Command Cost
+ HQ +
Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [11 PL, 235pts]: Dreadfist, Edict Imperator, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword
Lord Kaldor Draigo [10 PL, 190pts]: Armoured Resilience, Empyrean Domination
+ Troops +
Strike Squad [7 PL, 102pts]: Gate of Infinity
. 3x Grey Knight (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Psilencer): Psilencer
. Grey Knight Justicar
. . Nemesis Force Halberd
+ Elites +
Apothecary [5 PL, 80pts]: 4: First to the Fray, Augurium Scrolls, Warlord, Warp Shaping
. Nemesis Force Sword
Paladin Squad [30 PL, 508pts]: Hammerhand
. Paladin (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Halberd
. Paladin (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Halberd
. Paladin (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Halberd
. Paladin (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Halberd
. 5x Paladin (Warding Stave): 5x Nemesis Warding Stave, 5x Storm Bolter
. Paragon
. . Nemesis Force Halberd
++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [48 PL, 9CP, 884pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]
+ Stratagems +
Armoury of Titan [-1CP]: 1 Additional Relic
+ HQ +
Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [11 PL, 235pts]: Dreadfist, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword, Sanctuary
Techmarine [5 PL, 75pts]: Aetheric Conduit, Astral Aim, Boltgun, Power axe
. Servo Arms
+ Troops +
Strike Squad [7 PL, 102pts]: Gate of Infinity
. 3x Grey Knight (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Psilencer): Psilencer
. Grey Knight Justicar
. . Nemesis Force Halberd
Strike Squad [7 PL, 102pts]: Vortex of Doom
. 3x Grey Knight (Halberd): 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Psilencer): Psilencer
. Grey Knight Justicar
. . Nemesis Force Halberd
+ Heavy Support +
Nemesis Dreadknight [9 PL, 185pts]: Dreadfist, Gate of Infinity, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword
Nemesis Dreadknight [9 PL, 185pts]: Dreadfist, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword, Vortex of Doom
++ Total: [111 PL, 9CP, 1,999pts] ++
Basically I shot things and they either died horribly or bounced off (outside paladins, who just lost a couple of guys every turn), both of use struggled on primary but I struggled less and he couldn't score domination. Devilgants were...surprisingly effective. Despite shooting into a 2+ the entire time, ended up doing some wounds to a GMDK so a flyrant needed one less wound through (ended up getting an extra through anyway, but was nice he couldn't stuff me with a CP reroll: though he did do 11 wounds with fight on death...). Also killed several paladins and Draigo (who'd helpfully softened himself up with a perils): very good if they're basically ignored the entire game. 61-39 Game 3: Nasty 'Crons vehicle skew.
++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Necrons) [102 PL, 2,000pts, 7CP] ++
+ Configuration [9CP] +
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) [12CP]
Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Mephrit
+ HQ [18 PL, 335pts, -2CP] +
Catacomb Command Barge [9 PL, 180pts]: Gauss Cannon [5pts], Relic: Voltaic Staff, Resurrection Orb [30pts], Staff of Light, Warlord, Warlord Trait (Codex 1): Enduring Will
Catacomb Command Barge [9 PL, 155pts, -2CP]: Dynastic Heirlooms [-1CP], Gauss Cannon [5pts], Rarefied Nobility [-1CP], Relic: Voidreaper, Warlord Trait (Mephrit): Merciless Tyrant, Warscythe [5pts]
+ Elites [26 PL, 520pts] +
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer [19 PL, 370pts]: Power of the C'tan: Gaze of Death, Power of the C'tan: Transdimensional Thunderbolt, Scythe of the Nightbringer
Triarch Stalker [7 PL, 150pts]: Stalker's Forelimbs, Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon [15pts]
+ Heavy Support [48 PL, 945pts] +
Annihilation Barge [6 PL, 125pts]: Gauss Cannon [5pts], Twin Tesla Destructor
Annihilation Barge [6 PL, 125pts]: Gauss Cannon [5pts], Twin Tesla Destructor
Annihilation Barge [6 PL, 125pts]: Gauss Cannon [5pts], Twin Tesla Destructor
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 190pts]: Doomsday Cannon, 2x Gauss Flayer Array
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 190pts]: Doomsday Cannon, 2x Gauss Flayer Array
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 190pts]: Doomsday Cannon, 2x Gauss Flayer Array
+ Flyer [10 PL, 200pts] +
Doom Scythe [10 PL, 200pts]: Heavy Death Ray, Twin Tesla Destructor
I've played this guy a few times before, usually an uphill battle where I lost most of my army but won on points. And those were before the new dex. And he got first turn and...I only lost basically all of my gaunts, which put me on the back foot scoring wise (hold 2/3), but still. Meant I came back swinging T2 and took out 2 doomsday between flyrants and HG+exo. He then killed both my flyrants with shooting+Nightbringer who'd been chilling nearby, and I think exploded exo and most of the hive guard as well this turn with the doom scythe. I killed nightbringer, 2 barges (one catacomb) with smites+devilgants+HG, which let Swarmy charge a backfield barge who...lived on 1 wound because I didn't have voracious.  Rest of the game was just mop up and me trying to score what I could, but hold 2 with no terrain to hide behind on objectives...against that much firepower, ended up only getting 10 for primary. Anyway, was happy with list, everything did what it was supposed to. About the only thing that I feel could do with tweaking is the gants: the +2" from the horms was a bit helpful, but I don't think it really made any difference. Almost certainly not enough to justify the pts. Of course, I'm not a fan of painting a bunch more gaunts, so...they'll probably stay for the foreseeable future. Devilgants in the mixed squad did basically nothing: helped with shooting the fiends game 1, got a volley off from 3 of them at paladins game 2 (did nothing, unsurprisingly). And...that was it. Of course, 16 pts is a bit awkward to spend. Now, with 30 pts from Swarmy drop? 46 pts, ~100 pts if I cut a ripper and a couple of gaunts? Dunno, can't think of anything interesting other than 'more gaunts' (which is painting) or more warriors. Possibly take 2 mixed flesh/devilgants or something? Not feeling like I'm lacking anything in particular, other than just 'more damage/durability', which I can't really do easily outside the gaunts. |
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Post by No One on May 30, 2021 8:25:51 GMT
Seeing a lot of people trying out stealers in lists: I wasn't really that big a fan, but then I thought, hang on, T4 5++ vs T3 6+, they're actually almost as durable as 2 horms. Did some maths, only really bad durability drop per pt against S8+ (meh) and S5 (legitimate concern). Low S (and S6-7) is reasonably close unless no AP, which...could happen. Or things that don't interact with T/sv entirely, like MW/poison, but if those're going into stealers over MCs I think I'm fine with that. But overall, I think it's a low enough drop in durability that I don't mind giving it a shot.
So, combined with Swarmy pts drop, lets me pretty simply make the following swaps:
- 25 horms to 14 stealers. Can't quite get to the 4 acid maws without making more sacrifices elsewhere, but think that 14 is enough: I'm not wanting a super dangerous melee unit here, just something that can do some damage while tagging or on a counter charge and advance and charge for free reliably. Just staying above 10 without reasonable commitment to killing them off should be sufficient.
- The mixed 30 term unit and a ripper to 2 20 blobs (no devs). The 2nd ripper often ended up plonked on field for a drop to let me counter-deploy (or not get counter-deployed): while it might hurt me for engage a bit, I think it should work out fine. I liked the 2 big gaunt units for screening, or just pushing into midfield on objectives: I lose some gaunts overall, but think 20 should still be sufficient.
Had thought about including a pyro for doing the new action, but with 2 warriors and the lictors, as well as all the random infantry I've got, think I should be OK, though completing the T4 action for max could be awkward. But I prefer this for the moment.
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Post by No One on Jul 4, 2021 9:26:22 GMT
New list I'm testing out, hopefully has a decent amount of play into sisters/DE, and hopefully has at least a chance into AdMech if I get first or something else favourable happens.
++ Battalion Detachment: Kraken ++
Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 210pts]: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Resonance Barb, Warlord, Wings
. Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size
The Swarmlord [14 PL, 240pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Psychic Scream
+ Troops +
Genestealers [12 PL, 182pts]: 3x Acid Maw, 14x Scything Talons
. 14x Genestealer: 14x Rending Claws
Termagants [9 PL, 210pts]
. 30x Termagant (Devourer): 30x Devourer
Termagants [6 PL, 100pts]
. 20x Termagant (Fleshborer): 20x Fleshborer
Termagants [6 PL, 100pts]
. 20x Termagant (Fleshborer): 20x Fleshborer
Termagants [9 PL, 210pts]
. 30x Termagant (Devourer): 30x Devourer
Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 51pts]
3 Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
+ Elites +
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]
++ Patrol Detachment: Kronos ++
+ HQ +
Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Symbiostorm
+ Troops +
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]
. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth
+ Elites +
Hive Guard [12 PL, 270pts]
. 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]
+ Heavy Support +
Biovores [2 PL, 50pts]: Biovore
Exocrine [9 PL, 170pts]
. Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis
++ Total: [105 PL, 9CP, 1,998pts] ++
Basically a bunch of gaunts for primary/screening, devilgants for anti-infantry (see: DE, sisters, AdMech...except AdMech). Kraken for mobility if I can deploy a squad of devilgants T1, and anti-primary with the gaunts/stealers. Then Kronos for damage and Swarmlord+flyrant for melee damage/disruption. So far been doing pretty good: beat Tau, DG and...DG again. Tau killed the devilgants T1 (could maybe have been behind obscuring, but wasn't sure about fitting MCs as well, and wanted to go after drones going 1st/force missile suits going 2nd). I then killed basically all of the scoring and drones, his retaliation killed Swarmy, dropped flyrant to the point I couldn't charge through FtGG, but couldn't kill the exo, so my retaliation picked up basically the rest of his army. Swarmy/flyrant were a bit awkward to use when they can't charge any of the damage dealers 'cause FtGG, but were still pretty decent at cleaning up scoring, devilgants whiffed hard on output but were at least 30 bodies that needed to be dealt with, and exo/HG murdered stuff (though the former got a bit lucky, living on 1 wound). 1st DG: Bunch of dreads, plague drones and plague marines, got 1st and picked up a dread and plague drone from out of effective range of the other dreads, devilgants+HG picked up the rest of the plague drones T2 while flyrant charged and touched the remaining dreads. He just had some plague marines in rhinos (one wrapped), 2 dreads in combat with a full health cat flyrant, and buff Chars, so he conceded. 2nd DG: actually a game, with termis, poxwalkers and PBC (with 2 5 man PM in a rhino). Devilgants finally got to show off, killed a 20 blob of poxwalkers with opportunistic and double tap through miasma, stealers killed the 10 man that'd pushed up. Basically just kept denying primary (vital intelligence) with the gaunts while killing off any scoring to prevent spread the sickness: speed bumped the 10 man buffed blightlords on one flank, while clearing out the other flank. Exo whiffed a bit, killed 4 plague marines total, but I had enough damage to clear out what I needed to, and he struggled to do more than kill a unit of gaunts with the blightlords. |
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Post by No One on Oct 7, 2021 12:13:33 GMT
Been playing on some pretty heavy terrain on TTS, so thought I'd try out 12 hive guard. And expecting a lot of Orks/GK and of course the old SM/DG dread/termi favourites, brought out the Behemoth super flyrants. pastebin.com/s2eLBPBnBasically, ranged murder with HG, flyrants to take out key threats or finish things off once their army starts to dwindle. Stealers to kill things or flip objectives. And then the standard secondary stuff. Nothing really great to hold objectives, but...well, heavy terrain. Anyway, had a few games: DE (standard stuff)+CWE artillery (3x3 reapers, night spinner and a min shining spear unit): got 1st, but he'd deployed out of range, so just moved some stuff onto objectives. Game was basically he moved stuff up, I shot it or charged it, he counter charged and died. Relatively comfortable victory: with how cagey he deployed, going 2nd, and no PFP, he didn't have the mobility to threaten the HG, and while his reapers killed all of my stealers/easy scoring, I was killing his scoring as well with the HG/flyrants. Then pod games: - DA: went 2nd, he killed 4/6 with land speeder vengeance and a bunch of stealers. One flyrant (eventually) won his weak flank (only BGV+assault ints+the one land speeder that killed the HG), while on his other flank he was able to bother the HG (partly a TTS thing, partly my mistake) and I couldn't deal with the termis, but was able to kill all of his obsec and deny him his stubborn defiance objective with slingshot stealers. Also killed the apoth with super flyrant. Something like 80-60. - DWatch+GK: dreads. All the dreads. Went 2nd, he couldn't see anything except gaunts. My T1, stealers killed dominus captain and with smite+hunger knocked 12 wounds off a redemptor, hive guard killed a 2nd, and half killed a NDK. His T2 nothing happened, my T2 I killed the last redemptor with SoT flyrant, other flyrant murdered a GMDK, and HG+Swarmy+stealers killed/tagged 2 NDKs. His T3 he had 2 volcons, a GMDK, and an NDK: this did basically nothing and he conceded. - BA: not much to say here. He got 1st, but had deployed really cagey, so couldn't take advantage of it outside a 5 man DC squad, who killed the warriors and consolidated onto a term squad. I basically just screened him out and shot/charged him off the board. He didn't have the mobility to do anything, and his attempt to kill Swarmy from DS T3 bounced off the 4++/3++. - GK: Actually a game. 2nd. Again. Not salty. He stuck a lot of stuff in reserves, and deployed cagey with other stuff, so T1 was just moving up with rhinos. My T1, moved up to screen, shot the rhinos a little bit (and killed a squad that'd got out?), but didn't pop them (one because I stuffed up and wanted to make sure he didn't pop the spore and I had a spore there for screening/Shadows that, the other because I'd lined up a stealer charge). Stealers killed libby and wrapped the rhino down to 1 wound. He killed the rhino with desperate breakout and got the guys out with emergency: 3 CP to kill some stealers after they'd already killed stuff, got some CP, and flipped an objective? Worth. Almost everything dropped, but had to be in his DZ: he almost did something cute with interceptor's shoot in psychic and then gate, killing my centre gaunt screening unit. But then he just bounced them out back on the short edge, out of range of my HG but ages away from anything of relevance...The DKs mostly killed the stealers, but not fully which let me go and bother the NDK next turn. Also mostly killed it with HG, other stealers, super flyrant killed all of the infantry bar the interceptors and a strike on the backfield. He just moved up, made a lucky charge out of DS to tag the HG (I couldn't quite screen while clearing the units forward or sacrificing a flyrant: warriors rolled a 1 on advance ) Made a play to hostage a rhino with Swarmy+stealers while attacking the GMDK and forcing the 3++: almost worked out brilliantly, but there was a small gap where he could get out towards my DZ, was 1 wound off bracket and made a ~7" charge to kill my neuro. Ow. But it was too late to matter, I was too far ahead on scoring. 85:61. Into playoffs, got matched into Freebooterz. And then went 2nd. RIP. Actually went better than I thought it would, but...well, he had the damage to kill my damage dealers whiel also killing scoring, while having durable scoring that I didn't. Basically, he killed a unit of HG and the 16 stealers, I killed the planes, he killed Swarmy, I killed some buggies, he killed the flyrants, and then the hive guard. Actually pretty happy with how the list's gone, just...sort of sucks if I can't protect the HG for T1, and the primary's...not quite there. Is there anything I can really do about that? Nothing good I can think of: allying in GSC stops super aggressive stuff, but...points and CP for...nothing I really need? |
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Post by kazetanade on Oct 8, 2021 16:08:09 GMT
Been thinking about it, and latest Art of War, Alex Mcdougall is playing a trad GS Sling + Kronos, and has a minimal FAE GSC patrol coming in to block those hyper aggro stuff. My own thinking, GSC cutters have some decent play today, and Drills are... a little interesting. Could replace some of the damage we have from Nids, and I would be a lot happier with stuff that didn't always just bounce off invuls.
Other than that... seems solid. In terrain heavy boards, 12 HG can do work. It's still easy to flip if you're not careful though, but 36 shots of our ignore LoS ignore Cover is legitimately too heavy to ignore.
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Post by No One on Oct 9, 2021 10:41:29 GMT
Hmm...on thinking on this more, it might actually be workable. The core of the list is the flyrants and HG: they need CP to work, but nexos exists. I need screening, but I've got 'spare' points in the warriors and biovore, neither of which are essentially or (outside of GK with the biovore) super useful. Swap the big stealer unit to a small aco unit, can get most of what I want. Would be nice to have a keler, but needs bane and I don't think the points or CP are quite there. Could look something like:
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [59 PL, 10CP, 1,013pts] ++
Hive Fleet: Behemoth
+ Stratagems +
Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact
Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 215pts]: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Onslaught, Power: Paroxysm, Scythes of Tyran, Toxin Sacs, Wings
. Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 215pts]: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Power: Catalyst, Power: Unstoppable Hunger, Resonance Barb, Toxin Sacs, Warlord, Wings
. Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size
The Swarmlord [14 PL, 240pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Psychic Scream
+ Troops +
Genestealers [12 PL, 156pts]: 3x Acid Maw, 12x Scything Talons
. 12x Genestealer: 12x Rending Claws
Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer
Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer
Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer
+ Elites +
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]
++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Tyranids) [32 PL, -2CP, 685pts] ++
Hive Fleet: Kronos
+ HQ +
Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Symbiostorm
+ Troops +
Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer
+ Elites +
Hive Guard [12 PL, 270pts]
. 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard [12 PL, 270pts]
. 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon
GSC Patrol:
+ HQ +
RC Magus [5 PL, 85pts]: Power: Mass Hypnosis, Power: Unescapable Decay
+ Troops +
BC Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 120pts]: Cult Icon
10, 3 saws, icon
FAE Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 40pts]
. 4x Acolyte Hybrid: 4x Autopistol, 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Cultist Knife, 4x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife
+ Elites +
FAE Nexos [3 PL, 55pts]
++ Total: [108 PL, 6CP, 1,998pts] ++
Alternatively, could just drop something (bio and/or some stealers from the big blob?) for another gaunt unit for extra screening and disposable objective grabbing. Often felt that I could do with just one more unit.
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Post by tomb on Oct 9, 2021 17:54:14 GMT
I like where this is going.
After having submitted my no Hive Guard list I watched the AOW batrep and listened to the first part of the Alex McDougal interview.
I realy like his thinking and use of the min min/maxed FAE acolyte detachment with HG support.
Kazetanade, I like the idea of the MW from drills.
No One, the Nexus is nice tech. I'm not too clued into GSC, does the Nexus buff his own CP roll with +1 or does he need either the primus and or clamavus to get the buffs? Sadly both look to be ridiculous points for what they are.
Are all the Termigants for screening the HG?
Is there a way to get a couple more acolyte units? McDougal described how he uses them to keep the enemy away from the HG by actively threatening objectives (I think).
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Post by No One on Oct 10, 2021 3:56:36 GMT
Kazetanade, I like the idea of the MW from drills. Eh, drills are basically just 'I hate dreads'. They're generally only a little bit better than saws for most stuff, and if you don't like -1 D infantry, cutters. And pay 5 ppm more, and are awkward for D1 bonuses (e.g. TSons) and MW protection (e.g. GK, strats). Yeah, only a 6+ without either of those, but you roll for yours and opponent's, so it's still OK. Only really 1-3 CP, but at that point 55 pts to pay for the det and give another blip (and a blip move to let me use an aco or magus blip aggressively)? Seems OK. Mostly, but also for screening DS etc and expendable objective flippers/holders (not expecting them to hold up to proper removal effort, but terrain should make it so they need to come close to flip with melee or get angles, putting in hive guard/easy charge range. Not that I can see without dropping a stealer unit, which should do the same thing but also able to do other things with Swarmlord+hunger. And I've got the flyrants/Swarmlord which can do a similar thing, just less reliably since no obsec/attacks for more chaff stuff. Or too many gaunts. |
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Post by No One on Oct 16, 2021 3:05:51 GMT
So, currently just spittballing things:
Leviathan Battalion
-1 CP extra relics
+ HQ +
Broodlord [7 PL, 125pts, -1 CP]: Power: Onslaught, Extra WLT: Swarm Leader, CP regen relic
- Synaptic Link: Mastery of Shadows
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 225pts, -1 CP]: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Ignore Invuls Boneswords, Power: Catalyst, Power: Paroxysm, Toxin Sacs, Wings
. Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size, Extra WLT: Redeploy
The Swarmlord [14 PL, 240pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Psychic Scream, Warlord
+ Troops +
Genestealers [16 PL, 208pts]: 4x Acid Maw, 16x Scything Talons
. 16x Genestealer: 16x Rending Claws
Termagants [9 PL, 175pts]
. 25x Termagant (Devourer): 25x Devourer
Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer
Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer
Tyranid Warriors [8 PL, 105pts]: Adrenal Glands
. Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance
. Tyranid Warrior: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Scything Talons
- Synaptic Link: +1 to hit
+ Elites +
Hive Guard [12 PL, 270pts]
. 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]
++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Tyranids) [23 PL, -2CP, 465pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]
Hive Fleet: Kronos
+ HQ +
Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Symbiostorm
+ Troops +
Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 63pts]: Adrenal Glands
. Tyranid Warrior: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Scything Talons
- Synaptic Link: +1 to hit
+ Elites +
Hive Guard [12 PL, 270pts]
. 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]
++ Total: [108 PL, 6CP, 1,950pts] ++
So, by my maths I've got 5 pts left over. Lots of buffs here: possibly too much, but I don't think I lose too much from them? Anyway:
- Super flyrant with ignores invuls. I don't think this is absolutely amazing, since you lose rr 1s and AP-4, so there'll usually be an armour save. But it's still an increase in output against most invul targets, and is very strong against some units. i.e. DE. Where it's also got whip to kill whatever kills it, which will usually have to be a murder Char. They can spike DL, but it's very much a spike, and I don't think even DL+non murder Char gets there (though 10 man wyches/bloodbrides with strat buffs, or incubi+Draz buff may do it).
Also has WLT to redeploy which should be after 1st turn: lovely, lets me deploy unit+Swarmlord forward for going 1st, or something and devilgants into strat reserve. Very good.
- Broodlord gets cover, can chuck it on hive guard or warriors (or stealers or devilgants, but I don't expect that to happen much). Also WLT for full rrs: usually probably go on stealers when they go in or hive guard when they don't, though devilgants are a very appealing target if I can swing it. But command phase and strat reserve doesn't mix, and I don't know how reliable on board will be without Kraken and with all the other stuff competing for terrain. Also relic for CP regen, because...CP will just evaporate here I think.
- Warriors for +1 to hit and just general durable obsec brick: lets me keep the hive guard accurate when broodlord has other stuff to do, also much more flexible on range. Same deal with devilgants though.
- Devilgants have potential to use strat coming in from reserve: expensive at (probably) 2 CP, but double exploding 6s is very nice
- Hive guard buffed from whatever one isn't buffing something else, has potential to go Kronos+warriors for reliable shooting
Then the normal Kronos det, with an (almost) min warrior squad instead of min terms: ditto above, lets me 2+ rr 1s hive guard, with symbio (though apparently unmodded, still probably worth).
Seems...pretty good.
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Post by deviousdonut on Oct 16, 2021 3:25:26 GMT
Definitely seems good. I was expecting the extra WLT to be capped at 1 but maybe its not. Also not sure how the synaptic link abilities work but not sure you can have a levy synapse unit give kronos hive guard a synaptic link. I wouldnt count on that. Seems like with this new book lots of little cogs need to work together but payoff for getting it right could be huge!
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Post by No One on Oct 16, 2021 3:30:01 GMT
I was expecting the extra WLT to be capped at 1 but maybe its not. I don't think any extra WLT is capped at 1 (for 2k anyway). Maybe this one is, but I hope not. If it isn't...tbh might ditch the extra adapt, not sure. I'd be amazed if you could. I have a levi HG unit as well, and warrior synaptic links to each. You may not be able to double up on the same one, but the only limitation I've heard so far is for 3 max and only 1 on the same unit. |
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Post by deviousdonut on Oct 16, 2021 3:43:57 GMT
Fair enough, definitely sounds good!
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Post by windwalkerranger on Oct 16, 2021 18:09:16 GMT
I think with the potential to give full rerolls on Hive guard, and especially the symbiostorm becoming natural 6's, the additional patrol is not as needed. That 2 cp will sorely be needed somewhere else during the game. Just for this reason I'm thinking of character-hunting toxicrene or 5-man stealer squads, just so that I can use the feeder tendril strategem to hopefully regain some cp, on top of the CP regen relic. While there's a cap of 1 cp regained per turn, it's only for the items and not for the strategems. So you CAN use both of them and hopefully gain 1-2 additional cp per round.
Regarding the bonesword relic, remember the strategem that gives permanent +1ap to one of our units if it destroys an enemy unit in melee. It can be used in place of, or in combination with, the murderous size.
-1 to wound relic is too good to pass on: we have 4+ or 5+ invuls, on top of t7 or t8 creatures, and potentially 5+ fnp. Combined with the -1 to wound, it may make things very ugly.
Also, maleceptor -1 to str in combination with -1 to wound relic on a tervigon makes dark lances wound a tervigon on 6+ alone. If you can get the dermic symbiosis on top of it, then you have one ugly m.f. who keeps pumping out mw. dealing fleshborer gantz. I'm thinking seriously on a decked-out tervigon, 30 devilgants, and a group of 6 zoans for "to the last" strategem. while the gants may die the tervigon will keep pumping new ones and the unit will be kept alive.
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Post by No One on Oct 17, 2021 1:14:32 GMT
I think with the potential to give full rerolls on Hive guard, and especially the symbiostorm becoming natural 6's, the additional patrol is not as needed. That 2 cp will sorely be needed somewhere else during the game. So, two things: 1. WLT can only go on 1 thing. I have...3 units that want it (4 if I include both hive guard units in the det i.e. one never gets it unless the other dies) 2. I can replicate 100% the Kronos hive guard buffs. How many CP? 2. Sounds like a familiar number...Now, it may still be worth copping the loss in output and focusing more on the flyrant/devilgants, but I don't think so Feeder tendrils is nice, a 5 man stealer won't cut it. I'm hopeful I can murder something with the 16 man when it goes in, but it's more a 'nice to have' option. You 100% need size. The extra AP strat's a nice to have, but I think with how CP hungry the army is it won't be worth most of the time. Especially since it's not exactly super easy to proc and then get value from (basically requires overrun or double fight, which is not always an option/rarely worth it respectively). Eh, so. I think it's good. But the only HQs we can really make use of it on are a flyrant, which I think the ignores invul relic is better (I'm not actually certain of this, but it meshes better with what a super flyrant wants to do i.e. go in, murder something important and then either overrun out or die horribly and it just being a worth trade). See 'die horribly': I think you still die even with the -1 to wound, or at least without changing the gameplan. Which could be worth, especially with 2 flyrants. But then you run into issues with WLTs: even if you only want the one, having a WLT on a flyrant...hmm...maybe isn't as awkward as I was thinking with the 'swap WL on death' strat? But even so, you don't want a flyrant babysitting all game, and, while you will often just die going in (because of overrun or just good luck/position/whatever), then it's a bit awkward. At this point they just ignore it and kill the gaunts. You can't bring back what's dead, and killing 30 gaunts is 100% something good armies can do. To the last is interesting though. |
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Rest of the game was just mop up and me trying to score what I could, but hold 2 with no terrain to hide behind on objectives...against that much firepower, ended up only getting 10 for primary. 
