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Post by wormlord666 on Jul 27, 2020 8:45:28 GMT
I am going to experimiment a bit with lists and write my thoughts here and I look forwrad to inputs from you all here.
I played 2 games with this list:
Kronos battalion
Neuro (psychicrelic) Symbiostorm/catalyst
T. Prime (deathspitter bonesword)
4x 10 termagaunts
Warriors (Lashwhip/deathspitt/3 VC)
2x 6 Hiveguard (impaler) (Ignore ap 1 &2 upgrade)
6 Zooanthropes (Psycic scream)
Maleceptor (Symbiostorm)
Venomthropes
Exocrine
Listideas:
This is a castle. Designed to whithstand shooting thanks to -1 to hit and incomming strength. Hive Guards and exocrine will keep 2/3 of the field covered.
Warriors with Lashwhip can be useful as babysitters since they deny pile in trickery and they can move up on oblectives. Zooanthropes can survive and hold of eliteinfantry.
My two games was against CSM Iron Warriors with lots of vehicels. Discolords and those old demonwalkers that haven't been seen for a while (forgot wht they are called) plus 2 units of terminators with heavy shooting.
I got to start and killed one of the big walkers and it looked good at first. However he got up at me and since I had made the mistake of deploying split up (dawan of war) I could not defend myself properly.
I suffered from not scoring good on secondaries. (I took Mental interrogation, assanate and bring it down) Since I could not max theese and he eventualy took the board i lost.
Second game was against salamanders with 3 dread´s the new marines with plasma, and 6 aggressors.
Again I took bad secondarioes and when he took my exo and decimated my warrios I was stuck in the corner and lost.
Lessons:
* I need to have a better plan for secondaries. Mayby a few ripper are better for those easy reconstyle seconadies?
* Venomthpos was useless since I got -1 from forrest most of the time anyway.
* Warriors and exocrine was left in a tough spot in this list since they had to show themself and thus got to take all the shooting. Mayby give them upgrades instead of Hiveguards since they are hidden anyway?
* This list is very stationary in an edition that premiers boartdcontrol. I need to ad movement.
* I Need to deploy clever and keep my swarm together and then expand from there.
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Post by irondreddknight on Jul 27, 2020 9:13:56 GMT
Space marines are a real uphill battle, hard lines on the defeats. My thoughts on this approach would be..
Like you said, giving the exo and warriors more upgrades would serve better than the hive guards.
Dermic symbiosis is the obvious choice for the exo. And dynamic camouflage or enhanced resistance for the warriors.. Maybe even increase the warrior squad if you decide to drop the venomthropes, since you got the -1 from terrain anyway.. Would make better use of the prime.
If you can squeeze the points some how. A flyrant might serve better for the psychic relic and can jump between targets for symbiostorm. Allowing you to keep your units spread out and provide 'some' board control (this will likely make him target priority, so counter with catalyst as a second power??)
Maybe even put the exo in strategic reserve for T1 protection. Bring him in T2 and pop strats..
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Post by wormlord666 on Jul 27, 2020 9:55:36 GMT
Space marines are a real uphill battle, hard lines on the defeats. My thoughts on this approach would be.. Like you said, giving the exo and warriors more upgrades would serve better than the hive guards. Dermic symbiosis is the obvious choice for the exo. And dynamic camouflage or enhanced resistance for the warriors.. Maybe even increase the warrior squad if you decide to drop the venomthropes, since you got the -1 from terrain anyway.. Would make better use of the prime. If you can squeeze the points some how. A flyrant might serve better for the psychic relic and can jump between targets for symbiostorm. Allowing you to keep your units spread out and provide 'some' board control (this will likely make him target priority, so counter with catalyst as a second power??) Maybe even put the exo in strategic reserve for T1 protection. Bring him in T2 and pop strats.. Thank you for input! I agre on your choices for upgrades. I have thought about a flyrant as well. I have three on the shelf since first Knights and then SM was good 2 years a go and would love to let them work again. Having a flyrant in late game might be valuable to score objectives, and with depstrike you might get good angles to hide behind obscuring terrain. Flyrants can score positioning seconadaires, psycic secondaries, assasinations and even tie things up when the chaff is cleared. In theory anyway... mayby taking the zoanthropes out and bring a shooty flyrant in in an option... |
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Post by garg on Jul 27, 2020 10:57:44 GMT
I think castling is tricky in 9th because you tend to want to be on multiple objectives that may be to spread out especially with the way coherency works now.
What was your feeling on the maleceptor? I found him a bit too expensive for what he brings. Yes the stratagem is good but 2 CP is a lot as i think most times i will be taking a Kronos patrol with something else.
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Post by wormlord666 on Jul 27, 2020 11:47:03 GMT
I think castling is tricky in 9th because you tend to want to be on multiple objectives that may be to spread out especially with the way coherency works now. What was your feeling on the maleceptor? I found him a bit too expensive for what he brings. Yes the stratagem is good but 2 CP is a lot as i think most times i will be taking a Kronos patrol with something else. In my 2 games the maleceptor did not contribute much, if anything. First game was mostly lost in melee and in later rounds when the bubbel had burst, second game he was killed by lasers early on. He is at definite risk at beeing shelfed again. |
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Post by cmob208 on Jul 27, 2020 14:54:25 GMT
I also think castling is tough in 9th as you want to hold multiple objectives. How did you do on primaries in these games? How big is your warrior squad? Though expensive, I like the idea of a big warrior squad with enhanced resistance to hold an objective.
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Post by N.I.B. on Jul 27, 2020 17:20:05 GMT
Lashwhips on Warriors are a nobrainer imo, and have been so for a long time. They are so good at stopping enemy cc units from consolidating into our shooty units.
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Post by wormlord666 on Jul 28, 2020 7:28:26 GMT
I also think castling is tough in 9th as you want to hold multiple objectives. How did you do on primaries in these games? How big is your warrior squad? Though expensive, I like the idea of a big warrior squad with enhanced resistance to hold an objective. I did poorly on primaries with this list, unfortunately. Partly due to not beeing used to the editiion and the list, but it is a slow swarm this one. I had 9 warriors. I think 9 is the way to go in a list like this. I can se there beeing ways to play small units in some builds but In my list they are suppose to take som serious hits and teherfore need to be many. You only need to hold 2 objectives for 4 turns and more on 1 to mx out on primary. That means I could played in a "tau style" and just stayed still until things are cleared and then move out, but bad secondary-options ruined that idea so there needs to be som thinking done. My new idea wich will be tested this week is as follows Kronos bat: Dakkaflyrant with resonancebarb Neurothrope 4 ripper 2 x 10 termies 2x6 Hive guard 2 x Exocrine (with upgrade fo 5++) Kraken patrol Broodlord (onslought power for ooe) Old one eye 2 x 10 hormies Thoughts: I keep the offensive part of my last list with kronos hiveguards doing the heavy lifting together with double exo. One probably reserved with the flyrant to open up a new front in another table quarter. Flyrants I expect to be a handy tool to kill chaff, assasinate stuff, be in some important area to score, synapse and symbiostorm the exocrine. The kraken part is for stealing objectives and when there is need for it fight armoured attackers. I am thinking seconadries here: 1. Scrambler deploying for 10 easy ones. 2. "recon" for 8 easy, 12-15 doable or behind enemy lines depending on situation 3. Open for the mission/opponent but I have tools for mental interrogation, killing vehicles, rasing banners and the broodbolrd, ooe and flyrant can go on characterhunting if that is an option. |
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Post by wormlord666 on Jul 31, 2020 4:46:48 GMT
Tried the above listversion with Kronos Kraken yesterday against a AdMech vehicle castle. I won comfortably thanks to better ability to play the mission. (It was my 5:th game in the new ed and his first so that was a factor)
I got first turn wich has huge. It is hard to hide everything even though we had good amount of terrain. His output was insane (9 robot, 2 scorpius and 2 crawlers) so me killing a few robots right away a was good and then denying movement with suicide hormagaunts rushing the board gave me a good Turn 2 as well.
I reserved one exo.
The exocrines did not shine in this game. Everything was T7 so the Hiveguards had to be hot, and they were, fortunately.
I took scrambler, engage on all fronts, bring it down. I maxed primaries. I maxed bring it and scrambler and got 11 on engage so a total of 81 p (no paintingscore). Good choices for this list against him.
Takeaways:
Save CP! Hiveguards shooting twice is the best use of them. I wasted a few CP on less important stuff and they did only get toi double shoot three times.
Scrambler and engage are good secondaries. Just has to remember to do the actions (this was practice game so I could go back when I forgot to mention my scramblibg actions, but in a tournament that should be done properly)
List thought:
Old one eye or another broodlord is an open question. BL are psykers, synaps, have infantry keyword and can advance and charge. And they are cheaper. So thats a lot...
I will shuffle things around to have the battalion as kraken. All gaunts should be fast pointstealers.
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Post by wormlord666 on Aug 3, 2020 7:32:06 GMT
Took my Kronos/Kraken list to a small RTT this weekend.
Kraken had 2 BL 6* gaunts of different sort, 1 lictor
Kronos had a neuro, a dakkarant, ripper, 12 HG
2 exo
Lost a tight game against admech fulgrites and ballastari. I really had that game but lost due to him playing better than me. Did well with my secondaries (scrambler, engage on all, bring it down) and he made the mistake of taking assasin and Abhor the witch. So I could hide my characters and wait for him. Lost due to not beeing able to score enough primary. It was a mission where we needed to hold 2 to score 5p. Fun game and it was not the lists fault, it was pilot error.
Game 2 against demon summoning mix. Again I played my secondaries well apart from taking assasinate. (Good with scrambler,engage).
But again I lost due to beeing forced to hold 2 to score primary and not handling that properly. Annoying game since I had 5 beast of nurgle in my deployment zone a lot of the time...
Won the last against deathguard with 3 plagueburstcrawlers.
He started and in this game the hiveguards was not the only one shooting indirect so they had in tough. Won by playing for points. Denying him linebreaker, stealing his objectives and taking most of my secondaries (scrambler, engage, assasinate)
Thoughts: Hiveguards are strong. We had the recommended 13-15 terrainpieces wich means they could hide. They are so good I can easily see a list with 18 that totally revolves around them.
The dakka flyrant was a disappointment. No AP on the devourers is problematic. Could have used it better against demons but he got stuck.
Exocrines did ok.
2 broodlords did not really cut it for me. I lacked in Meleepower. I’ll see what I can fit in to clear stuff. If I skip the dakkarant I get a lot of points to buy something for.
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Post by wormlord666 on Aug 4, 2020 5:19:04 GMT
Reworked the list after this weekend. Flyrant and broodlord did not live up to expectations. This list relies heavy on the HiveGuards, I think they can carry that. New missions and smaller boards really brings targets in to their range. Swarmlord and broodlord can take on armoured melee and the 10 stealers can be a tool. Clear an objective, run fast, scrae people away. Lictor is a scrambler. ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [51 PL, 922pts] +++ Configuration +Hive Fleet: Kraken + HQ +Broodlord [8 PL, 125pts]: Power: Catalyst, Resonance Barb, Warlord The Swarmlord [15 PL, 270pts]: Power: Onslaught, Power: Synaptic Lure + Troops +Genestealers [8 PL, 150pts]. 10x Genestealer: 10x Rending Claws Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer + Elites +Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws + Fast Attack +Gargoyles [3 PL, 70pts]. 10x Gargoyle: 10x Blinding Venom, 10x Fleshborer ++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Tyranids) [54 PL, 1,071pts, -1CP] +++ Configuration +Hive Fleet: Kronos + Stratagems +Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]+ HQ +Neurothrope [4 PL, 95pts]: Power: Symbiostorm + Troops +Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth + Elites +Hive Guard [13 PL, 300pts]. 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon Hive Guard [13 PL, 300pts]. 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon + Heavy Support +Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]. Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]. Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis ++ Total: [105 PL, -1CP, 1,993pts] ++Created with BattleScribe |
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Post by wormlord666 on Aug 13, 2020 13:29:00 GMT
I may have a tournament coming up in a few weeks and the list above is one option. Before Covid i played a few toruramnets with Forces of The hive mind and if I like to stay in that ITC section I have experimented with combos with Hiveguards and Cult.
I have one extreme version I´d like to test:
Hivecult Battalion
Jackal A
Primus
5 Aco squads. 3 Five man, and 2 bigger with saws/Cutters
9 Ridgerunners
Kronos Patrol
Neuro
2 rippers
12 Hiveguards
This is an unbalanced list and is a bit of a cointoss. If I face the wrong oponent on the wrong map I will struggle. But I shoot like crazy. I have speed in the buggies. I will have a devastating frst turn with the hiveguards reaching a lot now and the RR blipdeployed and movin 14 or scout move + move. They will see stuff and kill stuff.
I can place scrambler/engare and the three most expensive models are my characters so I can get 15 p there. I will of course give upp Bring it down.
The acolytes will have to work unsupported and mostly just steal points or act as countercharges.
Any thoughts? Do you think it´l work? I hope to try it next week.
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Post by tallthor on Aug 14, 2020 7:35:39 GMT
Space marines are a real uphill battle, hard lines on the defeats. My thoughts on this approach would be.. Like you said, giving the exo and warriors more upgrades would serve better than the hive guards. Dermic symbiosis is the obvious choice for the exo. And dynamic camouflage or enhanced resistance for the warriors.. Maybe even increase the warrior squad if you decide to drop the venomthropes, since you got the -1 from terrain anyway.. Would make better use of the prime. If you can squeeze the points some how. A flyrant might serve better for the psychic relic and can jump between targets for symbiostorm. Allowing you to keep your units spread out and provide 'some' board control (this will likely make him target priority, so counter with catalyst as a second power??) Maybe even put the exo in strategic reserve for T1 protection. Bring him in T2 and pop strats.. Thank you for input! I agre on your choices for upgrades. I have thought about a flyrant as well. I have three on the shelf since first Knights and then SM was good 2 years a go and would love to let them work again. Having a flyrant in late game might be valuable to score objectives, and with depstrike you might get good angles to hide behind obscuring terrain. Flyrants can score positioning seconadaires, psycic secondaries, assasinations and even tie things up when the chaff is cleared. In theory anyway... mayby taking the zoanthropes out and bring a shooty flyrant in in an option... In a game against Salamanders I took 3 Flyrants, We killed a ton of stuff, end of the game I only had 3 models on the board, 2 flyrants and a Acidfex, the Flyrants were able to fly to objectives behind obscuring terrain on their advances, and If i needed to go REALLY far, you can use Metabolic overdrive to go a MINIMUM of 34 inches [(16+1 advance) x2]. FLyrants are amazing right now because obscuring terrain makes it so if they cant see the BASE of the model at all, it is obscured, the wings no longer count. Ended up winning 59-51 because I scored 13 points in the bottom of turn 5 with primary and Psychic Interrogation. |
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Post by gribblybaby on Aug 14, 2020 11:18:38 GMT
1) I think venomthropes are probably terrible now. I never thought they were all that to begin with
2) enhanced resistance is pointless in units that can sit out of site
3) I’d Dermic symbiosis the exocrine and enhanced resistance the warriors.
4) drop the venoms
5) try and see if you can see a way to leverage savage distraction and/or the horror
6) looking at your new list, 10 stealers makes me cringe, if you lose a single model you lose 13 attacks! I’d drop one of your mid squad gaunt blobs to buff them up.
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Post by wormlord666 on Aug 17, 2020 7:24:58 GMT
1) I think venomthropes are probably terrible now. I never thought they were all that to begin with 2) enhanced resistance is pointless in units that can sit out of site 3) I’d Dermic symbiosis the exocrine and enhanced resistance the warriors. 4) drop the venoms 5) try and see if you can see a way to leverage savage distraction and/or the horror 6) looking at your new list, 10 stealers makes me cringe, if you lose a single model you lose 13 attacks! I’d drop one of your mid squad gaunt blobs to buff them up. Thank you for feedback! I agree with a lot of your views. Regarding the stealers I added them after a RTT since i missed beeing able to run and charge in order to touch tanks and reach objectives. So not so much for killing stuff. Hence I do not care so much for their killyness. That might be wrong and a waste of 150 points. I am hesitant. |
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