Fighting Marines, do we need to tailor?

[mule]

Nov 7, 2019 20:13:59 GMT killercroc said:

33% drop across the board? A bit too far, but there are for sure price drops needed. Why is the Carnifex 67 points when the dreadnought is 60 and has a base WS/BS 3+? It's obvious things need to change, but by how much I'm unsure. The Neuro didn't need a bump up to 90 pts, yeah it's a 2 power psyker with a 3++ but it has no wargear and the powers it gains access to are nothing compared to the powers of say marine, Death Guard, or Daemons. I'm sure a lot of stuff needs an adjustment but I don't think we are likely to see a decent enough one to actively make a difference. Lots of the CA changes are a wash if anyone has looked into it, basically if every army gets a 25% price drop than nothing really lowered in price because percentage wise they're the exact same as they were before.

That and our MCs are still trash. WS/BS 4+ Shooting/combat creatures with 3/4 shots/attacks is a joke.

I think on all our MC a 33% cut on most if not all is what they need.

What other factions get access to in army power multipliers is outrageous to what we get, even if our carnifex and dreads were the same price. They can put a guillyman near the dread and get rerolls. The amount of access imperium gets as to army multipliers is astronomical to what ours gets, I'm pretty sure that's what the issue is. 

Oddly enough, I like having to pull a lot of my models off the board. But what I want is to pull a lot of my models off the board still look at the board and still have a board full of my purple duders covering it. It should feel like there is non stop hordes coming at my opponent and it really only feels like that on turn 1.

[gigasnail]

Nov 7, 2019 20:36:18 GMT killercroc said:

40K with damage spill over? Well damn if I'm not curious to how that'd play. Honestly it sounds better to me, and gives big weapons and units some real power.

they said they specifically didn't because they wanted to define weapon roles better, i.e. lascannons were ideal for hard targets and not for mowing down dismounted infantry. the execution was somewhat lacking and you still have weapons that are just good at everything via weight of fire and stratagems.

[killercroc]

If it's MCs getting a big cut I could see that more, they're just by far inferior to battle tanks of other armies just by how the degrading system works. No battle tank cares that it looses A, S and Move, but it effects us hard. Either fix the stats or fix the points... either one really. If a Carnife is more than a Dread it should be better than a dread. Personally I think big aura buff characters ruin the game, when you can force multiply your army for a handful of points and negate all the downsides what's the point? Marines take a Captain and Lieutenant for re-rolls of 1's to hit and wound for shooting and combat, for all units within 6"... for like 150 points? I mean.... seriously?



That and also the amount of firepower in 40k is huge compared to AoS. Most armies don't even have an artillery piece and the ones that do are usually 1 shot that does D3 damage on a 120-ish point model, 40k however Lascannons would wreck everything. It'd be interesting for sure but most likely highly impractical. but having weapon reols is the better option, cause if damage spread you'd always just take the high damage weapon even if it had more points. Why would you ever take a heavy bolter when a Lascannon can easily kill more?

[gigasnail]

AoS has the same (please do not swear), it's just in melee instead of ranged and the big monsters have 24 wounds.

[hivefleetkaiju]

Nov 7, 2019 20:29:46 GMT gigasnail said:

sometimes i think the tyranids base profiles in 8th got the wink and a nod at a development time when damage worked like it does in AoS (i.e. it all spills over like mortal wounds in 40k, with the only difference for mortal wounds being they bypass saves). d6 damage monstrous scything talons on trygons and the like start to be a lot more attractive when you're looking at 5d6 wounds potentially. that's an infantry reaper.

but, yeah, i think that's assigning a little too much planning to a company that admittedly does very, very little in the way of planning.

Some marine and csm weapons already have that spill over ability. GW can simply apply that ability to tyranids without changing how damage application system works

[kazetanade]

I havent seen this spillover ability anywhere in the SM codex - but even if there is, and GW could, why would you?

[killercroc]

The only damage spill I can think of in the game is Death Guard plague flails on normal Marines and Terminators. If there is any other that can it'd be news to me.

[hivefleetkaiju]

Nov 8, 2019 18:05:21 GMT kazetanade said:

I havent seen this spillover ability anywhere in the SM codex - but even if there is, and GW could, why would you?

Oh, that's dark angels not sm
That weapon is Flail of the Unforgiven

[gigasnail]

Yeah all the flail weapons do this. I cant think of any aside from the DG and DA.

[killercroc]

Tyranid wrecking ball is just a large flail. I demand damage spill!

Oh who am I kidding it's FW, they'll never update their rules.

[dranzyl]

Its funny that flails spill over but scythes (scything talons) dont. I guess someone in gw is a fan of discworld and firmly believes in reaping individual corn stalks one by one.

[kazetanade]

Could say the same thing about a sword and that cornstalk.