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Post by bolk on Oct 26, 2019 9:46:50 GMT
Yeah, Ebay is the answer. There's no way I would have gotten to 130 Genestealers at retail cost.
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Post by dc0315 on Oct 26, 2019 18:54:11 GMT
So i played this vs IH last thursday. This game is definitely not fun anymore! Like, wth? Seriously?
Anyways, he had 3 stormhawks, iron father, CM + LT 3 intercessor squads with stalkers, a leviathan dread & 2 executioners.
I played this.
++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Tyranids) [111 PL, 2,000pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Hive Fleet: Leviathan
+ HQ +
Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: Power: The Horror, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Perfectly Adapted
Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: Power: Catalyst, The Norn Crown
Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 72pts]: Boneswords, Spinefists
+ Troops +
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 82pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 84pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 84pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 84pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon
+ Elites +
Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: Power: Onslaught, 5x Zoanthrope
Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: Power: Psychic Scream, 5x Zoanthrope
Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: Power: Psychic Scream, 5x Zoanthrope
+ Fast Attack +
Meiotic Spores [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Meiotic Spore
Mucolid Spores [1 PL, 20pts]: Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spores [1 PL, 20pts]: Mucolid Spore
Spore Mines [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Spore Mine
Spore Mines [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Spore Mine
+ Heavy Support +
Biovores [2 PL, 50pts]: Biovore
Biovores [4 PL, 100pts]: 2x Biovore
Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]
Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]
Mawloc [6 PL, 104pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail
++ Total: [111 PL, 2,000pts] ++
I tried to tailor with mass MWs. Exocrines died t1. He killed 4 zoanthropes t1 from the leviathan and orbital bombardment. Though still, zoanthropes do alot of work. They killed an executioner and 2 stormhawks with smites. Warriors died Biovores didnt do much. Mawloc did well giving wounds to the HQ star which i could never get to. Meiotic finished off the excutioner and spore using spore field killed off 4 out of 5 intercessors in a squad. Almost killed the CM from MWs from mawloc and a mucolid that dropped out of LOS and made the charge. Mawloc gave him 3 MWs and on a d3 i needed a 5+ though i rolled a 4. Kept playing after t2 to see what they can do as game was over. By end of t5 all i had left was the t prime, 2 rippers and 2 neuros. Warriors got shot at by the stormhawks and he killed 2 units of 3 and left anither with 2 left. When they shot they plinked off some wounds from the stormhawks and killed some intercessors. Better than deploying a 150+ termagants to get shot off the board t1.
TL:DR Zoanthropes are a must take in this meta imho. Id replace the exocrines and biovores with just more spore mines, malanthrope and maybe hive guard due to not getting shot out of LOS unless he takes thunderfire cannons.
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Post by 1b2a on Oct 28, 2019 14:46:17 GMT
So i played this vs IH last thursday. This game is definitely not fun anymore! Like, wth? Seriously? Anyways, he had 3 stormhawks, iron father, CM + LT 3 intercessor squads with stalkers, a leviathan dread & 2 executioners. I played this. Mawloc [6 PL, 104pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail ++ Total: [111 PL, 2,000pts] ++I tried to tailor with mass MWs. Exocrines died t1. He killed 4 zoanthropes t1 from the leviathan and orbital bombardment. Though still, zoanthropes do alot of work. They killed an executioner and 2 stormhawks with smites. Warriors died Biovores didnt do much. Mawloc did well giving wounds to the HQ star which i could never get to. Meiotic finished off the excutioner and spore using spore field killed off 4 out of 5 intercessors in a squad. Almost killed the CM from MWs from mawloc and a mucolid that dropped out of LOS and made the charge. Mawloc gave him 3 MWs and on a d3 i needed a 5+ though i rolled a 4. Kept playing after t2 to see what they can do as game was over. By end of t5 all i had left was the t prime, 2 rippers and 2 neuros. Warriors got shot at by the stormhawks and he killed 2 units of 3 and left anither with 2 left. When they shot they plinked off some wounds from the stormhawks and killed some intercessors. Better than deploying a 150+ termagants to get shot off the board t1. TL:DR Zoanthropes are a must take in this meta imho. Id replace the exocrines and biovores with just more spore mines, malanthrope and maybe hive guard due to not getting shot out of LOS unless he takes thunderfire cannons. How do you operate the spore mines and sporefield stratagem? Do you use the patched meiotic spore rules where you can't know if you go first to T1 nuke? |
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Post by dc0315 on Oct 29, 2019 13:06:38 GMT
So i played this vs IH last thursday. This game is definitely not fun anymore! Like, wth? Seriously? Anyways, he had 3 stormhawks, iron father, CM + LT 3 intercessor squads with stalkers, a leviathan dread & 2 executioners. I played this. Mawloc [6 PL, 104pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail ++ Total: [111 PL, 2,000pts] ++I tried to tailor with mass MWs. Exocrines died t1. He killed 4 zoanthropes t1 from the leviathan and orbital bombardment. Though still, zoanthropes do alot of work. They killed an executioner and 2 stormhawks with smites. Warriors died Biovores didnt do much. Mawloc did well giving wounds to the HQ star which i could never get to. Meiotic finished off the excutioner and spore using spore field killed off 4 out of 5 intercessors in a squad. Almost killed the CM from MWs from mawloc and a mucolid that dropped out of LOS and made the charge. Mawloc gave him 3 MWs and on a d3 i needed a 5+ though i rolled a 4. Kept playing after t2 to see what they can do as game was over. By end of t5 all i had left was the t prime, 2 rippers and 2 neuros. Warriors got shot at by the stormhawks and he killed 2 units of 3 and left anither with 2 left. When they shot they plinked off some wounds from the stormhawks and killed some intercessors. Better than deploying a 150+ termagants to get shot off the board t1. TL:DR Zoanthropes are a must take in this meta imho. Id replace the exocrines and biovores with just more spore mines, malanthrope and maybe hive guard due to not getting shot out of LOS unless he takes thunderfire cannons. How do you operate the spore mines and sporefield stratagem? Do you use the patched meiotic spore rules where you can't know if you go first to T1 nuke? No i left 60pts out so i could use it. I knew i was gna do it, was part if the game plan to use sporefield. I included them in the list so people wont get mixed up when they see the list and dont find them there yet theyre mentioned in the match summary. |
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Post by terminatoruk on Nov 5, 2019 16:05:09 GMT
For fun I compared Intercessors with our own warriors because they should be sort of the same type of unit. So for 7 points more we get one more wound (technically one more attack but veterans and then shickattack practically gives them 2 more) and assault3 weapon when they get rapid fire 1 (with bolter discipline). They get one better BS, one better save one better AP on their Gun. So they are better in just raw stats. Then comes the real issue; the layers you can place on top of that. We can get: reroll 1’s if they stand still or 6+++ or fallback and Shoot and better advance or +1 to saves. They get bolter drill and doctrines (-1 AP, standing still if Ultra) and fallback and shoot (if ultra) If we then add possible buffs the chaptermaster or a captain is way better that a prime since they buff everbody and can be on bikes or with jumppacks etc. Really redicoulus when you look at it. I see what you are saying but dig a bit deeper... - Unit is always fearless, makes other units around it fearless (and projects a 6+++ FnP within 6" if Lethithan) - Has 3 attacks base (not just with shock assault) with cheap (2pts) access to 4 attacks with -2AP (Boneswords) - Ranged attacks hitting on 3+ and melee hitting on 2+ (if accompanied by a Prime) - Ranged weapons are assault and therefore can advance and shoot (with no negative penalty to hit if onslaught is cast on them) - Access to up to 3 Venom Cannons at just 12pts each in a squad of 9 - excellent for some anti-light vehicle or anti-elite infantry firepower Warriors are a very flexible unit - they might not be able to shoot as well as Hive Guard or melee as well as genestellers point per point but they are very flexible and have access to more options than Intercessors do. The models look awesome too  ...and I've got 15 of them so I'm always going to defend them  |
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Post by gigasnail on Nov 5, 2019 18:33:39 GMT
That's a while lot of if's. Warriors look big and scary, they really aren't.
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Post by killercroc on Nov 5, 2019 19:35:26 GMT
I love my Warriors as much as the next masochist but in the current game they're not good. Basically, Tyranids strengths lie in hordes and multi-wound bigger bugs so when the majority army (Marines) can output enough shots to kill hordes and enough large guns to kill multi-wound bugs our "strengths" become liabilities. Think about it, those new sniper marines with Lasfusils are what... 37 points each and can easily drop a Warrior a turn from 36". Predator Autocannons also do them in quickly.
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Post by hiveoverall on Nov 6, 2019 10:16:13 GMT
I think what warriors really lack is strengh 5, or a way to get to strengh 5 through buffs (if only we had a psychic power, a strat or a character aura which could do like might from beyond...)
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Post by killercroc on Nov 6, 2019 15:28:28 GMT
All the new changes to marines don't help Warriors either when you look at what you get for stats. Aggressors are still 21 points if I recall meaning 1 more point for a 3W T5 Sv3+ model making ours at T4 SV4+ kinda worse for it. Not comparing battlefield use just the base stats for the cost and when you look at the latest shuffling 20 for Warriors is too high also assuming army special rules are NOT a factor in points as marines all got 3 new powers and didn't increase in points it leads me to believe you pay for raw stats. Another issue with the Warrior is while they get decent guns for a decent price their CC is quite lacking. You get Scythes, Dual scythes, Dual swords, Sword and whip or Claws. While it seems like we get a lot of variety in truth we don't if you think about it, re-roll 1s, either +1 attack w/ re-rolls 1s, AP -2, AP -2 with an extra attack or AP -1/-4. All that gear is rather low, weak AP or an extra attack but no options for higher S and AP I'd say Warriors for sure should gain access to crushing claws at the very least.
I think Warriors at base S4 is fine but they should for sure get a wargear and points change, also not to mention now the Devourer is far over costed, Marines get an 18" Assault 3 S4 gun for 1 point, we get it for 4, also the Deathspitter at 5 is so much better there is never a reason to take the Devourer. At most drop it to 2 points so it's more than Marine cause we can spam it but not so much it's over costed. Dropping Warriors to 18 points would help too as any more would be too much.
Finally they really need a special rule to give them purpose. Besides being Synapse creatures and being the only unit to get a Deathspitter they don't do anything unique in the Tyranid army. They're not good at shooting and they're not good in combat, at most they're average but they need a purpose. I'm not sure though, maybe have variants like the Carnifex would help them. Have a CC warrior that can't take guns besides Spinefists but gains an extra attack for having two weapons like they use to so it being CC means something, shooting variant that can take enhanced senses for like 2 points to make it good at shooting without a Prime sitting behind it telling it how to use its own gun. Hive Mind has complete control over its Biomass but can't give the shooty units 20/20 vision... ok.
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Post by Jbizzy on Nov 6, 2019 16:41:23 GMT
All the new changes to marines don't help Warriors either when you look at what you get for stats. Aggressors are still 21 points if I recall meaning 1 more point for a 3W T5 Sv3+ model making ours at T4 SV4+ kinda worse for it. Not comparing battlefield use just the base stats for the cost and when you look at the latest shuffling 20 for Warriors is too high also assuming army special rules are NOT a factor in points as marines all got 3 new powers and didn't increase in points it leads me to believe you pay for raw stats. Another issue with the Warrior is while they get decent guns for a decent price their CC is quite lacking. You get Scythes, Dual scythes, Dual swords, Sword and whip or Claws. While it seems like we get a lot of variety in truth we don't if you think about it, re-roll 1s, either +1 attack w/ re-rolls 1s, AP -2, AP -2 with an extra attack or AP -1/-4. All that gear is rather low, weak AP or an extra attack but no options for higher S and AP I'd say Warriors for sure should gain access to crushing claws at the very least. I think Warriors at base S4 is fine but they should for sure get a wargear and points change, also not to mention now the Devourer is far over costed, Marines get an 18" Assault 3 S4 gun for 1 point, we get it for 4, also the Deathspitter at 5 is so much better there is never a reason to take the Devourer. At most drop it to 2 points so it's more than Marine cause we can spam it but not so much it's over costed. Dropping Warriors to 18 points would help too as any more would be too much. Finally they really need a special rule to give them purpose. Besides being Synapse creatures and being the only unit to get a Deathspitter they don't do anything unique in the Tyranid army. They're not good at shooting and they're not good in combat, at most they're average but they need a purpose. I'm not sure though, maybe have variants like the Carnifex would help them. Have a CC warrior that can't take guns besides Spinefists but gains an extra attack for having two weapons like they use to so it being CC means something, shooting variant that can take enhanced senses for like 2 points to make it good at shooting without a Prime sitting behind it telling it how to use its own gun. Hive Mind has complete control over its Biomass but can't give the shooty units 20/20 vision... ok. I'd like the idea of dropping devourer points down to make them a cheap gun on the melee monster. I would love for them to get a bonus for having a larger than MSU. Maybe something like they get a +5 invuln while the brood is 3 or more? They need something, they are definitely a cool model that needs some love. |
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Post by mule on Nov 6, 2019 20:21:16 GMT
All the new changes to marines don't help Warriors either when you look at what you get for stats. Aggressors are still 21 points if I recall meaning 1 more point for a 3W T5 Sv3+ model making ours at T4 SV4+ kinda worse for it. Not comparing battlefield use just the base stats for the cost and when you look at the latest shuffling 20 for Warriors is too high also assuming army special rules are NOT a factor in points as marines all got 3 new powers and didn't increase in points it leads me to believe you pay for raw stats. Another issue with the Warrior is while they get decent guns for a decent price their CC is quite lacking. You get Scythes, Dual scythes, Dual swords, Sword and whip or Claws. While it seems like we get a lot of variety in truth we don't if you think about it, re-roll 1s, either +1 attack w/ re-rolls 1s, AP -2, AP -2 with an extra attack or AP -1/-4. All that gear is rather low, weak AP or an extra attack but no options for higher S and AP I'd say Warriors for sure should gain access to crushing claws at the very least. I think Warriors at base S4 is fine but they should for sure get a wargear and points change, also not to mention now the Devourer is far over costed, Marines get an 18" Assault 3 S4 gun for 1 point, we get it for 4, also the Deathspitter at 5 is so much better there is never a reason to take the Devourer. At most drop it to 2 points so it's more than Marine cause we can spam it but not so much it's over costed. Dropping Warriors to 18 points would help too as any more would be too much. Finally they really need a special rule to give them purpose. Besides being Synapse creatures and being the only unit to get a Deathspitter they don't do anything unique in the Tyranid army. They're not good at shooting and they're not good in combat, at most they're average but they need a purpose. I'm not sure though, maybe have variants like the Carnifex would help them. Have a CC warrior that can't take guns besides Spinefists but gains an extra attack for having two weapons like they use to so it being CC means something, shooting variant that can take enhanced senses for like 2 points to make it good at shooting without a Prime sitting behind it telling it how to use its own gun. Hive Mind has complete control over its Biomass but can't give the shooty units 20/20 vision... ok. I'd like the idea of dropping devourer points down to make them a cheap gun on the melee monster. I would love for them to get a bonus for having a larger than MSU. Maybe something like they get a +5 invuln while the brood is 3 or more? They need something, they are definitely a cool model that needs some love. I own 5k points, and 0 of them are warriors. Hi GW if you're reading this i'd love to buy your models but you have to make me want them first. |
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Post by gigasnail on Nov 6, 2019 21:09:57 GMT
i have probably 20 of them. none of them had arms until three weeks ago, where i finally fully built a unit out with deathspitters, boneswords, and two venom cannons. i should have just brought more genestealers, but it was a friendly warm-up game so the warriors were a decent fit for that.
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Post by killercroc on Nov 6, 2019 22:08:33 GMT
One thing about Warriors that's always been odd is how they're depicted in fluff and books vs how they work in game. They're usually always seen with gaunts working together as a team, and you don't read about a huge brood of Warriors it's always like 1 or 2. Fluff wise they act more like lieutenants in an army than groups of heavy firepower/melee critters. Then again... I think most of our fluff compared to the reality of the army is vasty different which is more than a little disappointing.
I love Warriors and have far more than anyone reasonably should. I lost a few due to bad conversion ideas but I have 9 with DS/BS and Scythes, 3 as Shrikes with Rending claws and Devourers, 3 different primes and 9 left unbuilt as I don't know what I want from them. I would very much like them to get a bit of love to be a better unit in the army instead of something you take for fun that will usually disappoint.
As is I find Boneswords for them to be a trap, they look good being only 2 points for AP -2 power swords with +1A so they should be good against marines especially... but they tend to get shot up before they even make it into combat, or even if they get halfway up the board your opponent charges them first since you have to come to them and they get wrecked by Terminators or vanguard backed by a chaplain. So while it's only 2 points a piece it's always 2 points wasted in my experience.
Also venomcannons look really good, the issue is only 1 per 3 means you have to drop a lot of points on base Warriors just for a minimum amount of anti-tank fire. My proposed fix to this is like back in 4th, let us take units of heavy weapon Warriors as heavy support instead of troops. I would love to take 3 VC Warriors as a heavy option in my lists.
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Post by gigasnail on Nov 6, 2019 22:50:23 GMT
making them single character elites would be a great idea, we've talked about this in past editions.
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Post by mule on Nov 7, 2019 0:25:53 GMT
I mean if they let you put good weapons on a prime then theyd more or less function that way. Put 30 termas around 2 or 3 primes with venom cannons that hit on 2s.
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