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Post by killercroc on Oct 17, 2019 0:09:44 GMT
Ok, so basically IG get the BB only if they're solo for half CP, or you can include them in your GSC detachment ignoring the keyword but then you won't be battle forged and have 0 CP.
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Post by No One on Oct 17, 2019 3:17:29 GMT
Outside of the GSC BB stuff (i.e. BB infantry squads etc who have the GSC Keywords and are in our Codex, but not stuff like IG HQs/artillery etc), including IG in a GSC detachment is as valid as including SM in a nid detachment...
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Post by killercroc on Oct 17, 2019 3:36:49 GMT
Alright I see where I miss-read in the codex, it says you can include IG and GSC forces in the same matched play army. For some reason I was assuming that meant they could be taken together in the same detachment.
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Post by wormlord666 on Oct 18, 2019 9:19:53 GMT
For fun I compared Intercessors with our own warriors because they should be sort of the same type of unit.
So for 7 points more we get one more wound (technically one more attack but veterans and then shickattack practically gives them 2 more) and assault3 weapon when they get rapid fire 1 (with bolter discipline).
They get one better BS, one better save one better AP on their Gun. So they are better in just raw stats.
Then comes the real issue; the layers you can place on top of that.
We can get: reroll 1’s if they stand still or 6+++ or fallback and Shoot and better advance or +1 to saves.
They get bolter drill and doctrines (-1 AP, standing still if Ultra) and fallback and shoot (if ultra)
If we then add possible buffs the chaptermaster or a captain is way better that a prime since they buff everbody and can be on bikes or with jumppacks etc.
Really redicoulus when you look at it.
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Post by dotcomee on Oct 18, 2019 21:09:47 GMT
I think my overall favorite(not) is Instinctive Behavior on our monsters. They don't get any benefit from being in synapse, just a penalty if it's too far from a synapse creature. In comparison to what other armies are doing with vehicles, it makes me not even want to play this game at all. It's not even close to competitive.
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Post by vandalex on Oct 20, 2019 14:06:40 GMT
In regards to gaunt carpet, do not expect it to do well in the marine meta. I still stand by it is the most effective archetype for nids, but marines just chew through bodies on an unimaginable scale.
I have just come back from a tourney where I used 216 gaunts. I played round 1 18 assualt cents, with the extra 3" range trait. Boy oh boy was that a massacre. I also play an iron hands and Raven guard mixed army. My opponent played like a potato, and while I took as much advantage as I could from his misplays, he was still beating me. I made the game a tie because he timed out turn 4.
I think a good player on gaunt carpet can beat an average marines player 50% of the time. I think a Good marine player almost never loses.
That said, I'm a sucker for punishment and I will continue to play the gaunt carpet, and see what I can make work. GSC has become paramount for the ability to snipe out characters.
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Post by mule on Oct 21, 2019 19:33:43 GMT
6 Fexes or bust. I think Custodies will get their power buff eventually. They're taking turns with each codex at this point, Aeldari and Ynnari look like they'll be in a decent spot after their nerf hammer. Marines are still an elite army - despite what damage they output against us (specifically horde armies suffer badly - other tougher armies are fine. Such as Other Marines and Knights *sarcasm*) they do lose a hefty amount for every model that dies. If you switch off their tools, the pain goes away quickly. The trick is then to have numerous vectors of threat, and to deal mortal wounds directly. On that note, Zoanthropes are a great idea. I'd almost go as far as to say that 12 (6+6 or 4+4+4) are not out of place. Biovores help greatly, and leaving a mountain of spores to clear up is vexing for many, especially those which less movement. It helps too when you don't rely on charging, since marines need to shoot AND charge to be a veritable threat (not to say their shooting is not scary, but it's not drastically improved in most cases where they still need to move), so their greatest weakness is ironically a ranged shooting army. The issue with Zoey? I think d3+3 doesn't kill enough Primaris, with their 2W stat line they actually need to be shot by Exocrines to be in danger. Likewise bikes but you basically fight through a 3++ badly so you're screwed there. IH are so borked though. 4+ OW, 4+ DtW, 5++,4+++ or 5+++ vs mortal wounds, no Heavy and auto rr1s, bloody hell... I have looked at using 6 Carnifex before, was mostly just for fun but now it might be the new way to play, at least until our codex gets upgraded? The question is how to play them? At first I thought just Scythes and Adrenals, keeps them nice and cheap at 87 points and even with a low S of 6 against most marines they'll still wound on 3's and having AP -3, 3 Dmg they're good at reducing the save and even slicing through the new 3 wound marines. (Honestly 3 wound marines what the hell...) Downside is making it into combat before they're all deleted, so there is just 6 shooty fex, nothing with our ranged attacks really fully negate a marines Sv and W but they can at least start doing damage T1 and that's the best we can hope for. It might be worth it to try a Mortal spam against them. Neuros, Zoans and Biovores. Smite will get backed up though pretty bad because none of our stuff got brotherhood so past the 3rd smite you're looking at less and less returns... but units of 3 Neuros, 3 Zoans and 3 Biovores does pump out possibly enough mortal to be worth it...Downside is way pay a huge premium just to try and deal mortal wounds. 3 Neuros, 3 4x Zoans and 3 3x Bios is 1200 points, which just assuming every smite does go off looks at an average of 18 mortal wounds from smites and about 4 mortal wounds from vores... so 1200 points to do a generous 22 mortal wounds. It's iffy I'll tell you. I dont think there is any effective tailor for this. You bring your A game, cut all the fat, and play strictly to the mission. There is no more wiggle room. Even playing the mission will be tough, getting tabled T3 doesn't matter how well you play for the mission. Suring up lists will help a bit however. As I discussed this with people at the games store my logic was, I'm going to have to tailor against their armies for a chance to win, I'm sure they won't like list tailoring but if the alternative is an effectively assured loss if I don't then why even bother playing? If I have to bring my A game to fight a standard marine list and just hope to win, hell I don't see the reason to play them anymore. I run my fex with 4x devourers, and maws. I put spores on them but with all the rerolls and shooting consistancy, I figure I mind as well run none of them with the -1 to hit and field another one for 10 points. Scythes are better but overall damage output of maws and devourers seems better imo. Not sure if big bugs are the route but maybe i'll give it a try |
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Post by v0iddrgn on Oct 23, 2019 15:42:08 GMT
I'm trying out Jorm Shockguard DS against IH this weekend. Should be interesting. I notice a lot of top comp builds include an assortment of 'Vehicles' so I'm giving them a go.
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Post by mule on Oct 23, 2019 21:46:51 GMT
I'm trying out Jorm Shockguard DS against IH this weekend. Should be interesting. I notice a lot of top comp builds include an assortment of 'Vehicles' so I'm giving them a go. My biggest issue with them when the codex launched is that theyre not cheap. The units are cheap but you need a jorm detachment, then you need a delivery system, so a trigon so youre paying a 200 point tax and theyll more or less die the turn you drop them and the trygon will too, and with their short range unless your opponent has clumped vehicles you really just have the single target you drop on. So shoot twice with them isnt entirely helpful either. |
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Post by dc0315 on Oct 23, 2019 22:06:18 GMT
I think my overall favorite(not) is Instinctive Behavior on our monsters. They don't get any benefit from being in synapse, just a penalty if it's too far from a synapse creature. In comparison to what other armies are doing with vehicles, it makes me not even want to play this game at all. It's not even close to competitive. Since the 1st supplements came out ppl here have had a hiatus from 40k till/if it gets back to its senses. Most people have jumped ship to ASOIAF which has great rules design and is great as a competitive game, also reminds the vets of warhammer of old quite abit. Im still waiting on the Targaryens release so for now we are continuing our blackstone campaign, bloodbowl, kill team a little, mansions of Madness and Fury of Dracula. Gw have gone all 7th ed again. Weremt they supposed to streamline the game this edition? LOFL. |
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Post by dc0315 on Oct 23, 2019 22:12:00 GMT
I'm trying out Jorm Shockguard DS against IH this weekend. Should be interesting. I notice a lot of top comp builds include an assortment of 'Vehicles' so I'm giving them a go. My biggest issue with them when the codex launched is that theyre not cheap. The units are cheap but you need a jorm detachment, then you need a delivery system, so a trigon so youre paying a 200 point tax and theyll more or less die the turn you drop them and the trygon will too, and with their short range unless your opponent has clumped vehicles you really just have the single target you drop on. So shoot twice with them isnt entirely helpful either. In a Jorm Detachment you can use Raveners to Deep Strike at like 70pts for 3 instead of a Tyrgon so its a smaller tax, atleast |
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Post by mule on Oct 23, 2019 22:31:23 GMT
My biggest issue with them when the codex launched is that theyre not cheap. The units are cheap but you need a jorm detachment, then you need a delivery system, so a trigon so youre paying a 200 point tax and theyll more or less die the turn you drop them and the trygon will too, and with their short range unless your opponent has clumped vehicles you really just have the single target you drop on. So shoot twice with them isnt entirely helpful either. In a Jorm Detachment you can use Raveners to Deep Strike at like 70pts for 3 instead of a Tyrgon so its a smaller tax, atleast Yeah, still need to fill the detachment though, you've still got an decent investment and most of it isn't worth while. Thats just what ive found. Least trygon prime is a big enough threat to take shots. |
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Post by dc0315 on Oct 23, 2019 22:37:08 GMT
Fixed up a game vs one new(what do ya know!) IH players. He "said" hes going to use a cool list nothing super competitive for the game.
Im stuck between 2 lists ive made just now and im torn which to try.
1 is a mortal wound list, the other is an MC list with exos and tfexs and the like, thoughts?
++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Tyranids) [111 PL, 2,000pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Hive Fleet: Leviathan
+ HQ +
Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: Warlord, Warlord Trait: Perfectly Adapted
Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: The Norn Crown
Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 72pts]: Boneswords, Spinefists
+ Troops +
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 86pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 86pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 86pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 86pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
+ Elites +
Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: 5x Zoanthrope
Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: 5x Zoanthrope
Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: 5x Zoanthrope
+ Fast Attack +
Meiotic Spores [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Meiotic Spore
Spore Mines [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Spore Mine
Spore Mines [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Spore Mine
Spore Mines [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Spore Mine
+ Heavy Support +
Biovores [2 PL, 50pts]: Biovore
Biovores [4 PL, 100pts]: 2x Biovore
Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]
Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]
Mawloc [6 PL, 104pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail
++ Total: [111 PL, 2,000pts] ++
Spore mines use sporefield with meiotic for invictors and eliminators. As u can see, heavy on the mortals. Couldnt find space for the Hive Guard sadly. I went with 5 zoans each because with the amount of shots marines can fire, i need as many wounds i can fit in for D3+D3 MWs or Psychic Barrage.
This is the other
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [58 PL, 1,023pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Hive Fleet: Jormungandr
+ HQ +
Malanthropes [5 PL, 140pts]: Warlord, Warlord Trait: Insidious Threat
. Malanthrope
Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 77pts]: Boneswords, Deathspitter
+ Troops +
Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 172pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 86pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 86pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
+ Elites +
Lictor [2 PL, 34pts]: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws
Pyrovores [2 PL, 25pts]: Pyrovore
Pyrovores [2 PL, 25pts]: Pyrovore
+ Heavy Support +
Tyrannofex [11 PL, 189pts]: Acid Spray, Adrenal Glands, Stinger Salvo
Tyrannofex [11 PL, 189pts]: Acid Spray, Adrenal Glands, Stinger Salvo
++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Tyranids) [51 PL, 976pts] ++
+ HQ +
Malanthropes [5 PL, 140pts]
. Malanthrope
+ Elites +
Hive Guard [13 PL, 288pts]
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
+ Heavy Support +
Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]
Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]
Tyrannofex [11 PL, 208pts]: Rupture Cannon, Stinger Salvo
++ Total: [109 PL, 1,999pts] ++
Going for anti cover and having -1 everywhere(albeit close to useless)
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Post by dc0315 on Oct 23, 2019 23:04:25 GMT
Fixed up a game vs one new(what do ya know!) IH players. He "said" hes going to use a cool list nothing super competitive for the game. Im stuck between 2 lists ive made just now and im torn which to try. 1 is a mortal wound list, the other is an MC list with exos and tfexs and the like, thoughts?
++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Tyranids) [111 PL, 2,000pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Hive Fleet: Leviathan
+ HQ +
Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: Warlord, Warlord Trait: Perfectly Adapted
Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: The Norn Crown
Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 72pts]: Boneswords, Spinefists
+ Troops +
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 86pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 86pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 86pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 86pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
+ Elites +
Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: 5x Zoanthrope
Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: 5x Zoanthrope
Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: 5x Zoanthrope
+ Fast Attack +
Meiotic Spores [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Meiotic Spore
Spore Mines [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Spore Mine
Spore Mines [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Spore Mine
Spore Mines [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Spore Mine
+ Heavy Support +
Biovores [2 PL, 50pts]: Biovore
Biovores [4 PL, 100pts]: 2x Biovore
Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]
Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]
Mawloc [6 PL, 104pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail
++ Total: [111 PL, 2,000pts] ++
Spore mines use sporefield with meiotic for invictors and eliminators. As u can see, heavy on the mortals. Couldnt find space for the Hive Guard sadly. I went with 5 zoans each because with the amount of shots marines can fire, i need as many wounds i can fit in for D3+D3 MWs or Psychic Barrage.
This is the other
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [58 PL, 1,023pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Hive Fleet: Jormungandr
+ HQ +
Malanthropes [5 PL, 140pts]: Warlord, Warlord Trait: Insidious Threat
. Malanthrope
Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 77pts]: Boneswords, Deathspitter
+ Troops +
Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 172pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 86pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 86pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
+ Elites +
Lictor [2 PL, 34pts]: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws
Pyrovores [2 PL, 25pts]: Pyrovore
Pyrovores [2 PL, 25pts]: Pyrovore
+ Heavy Support +
Tyrannofex [11 PL, 189pts]: Acid Spray, Adrenal Glands, Stinger Salvo
Tyrannofex [11 PL, 189pts]: Acid Spray, Adrenal Glands, Stinger Salvo
++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Tyranids) [51 PL, 976pts] ++
+ HQ +
Malanthropes [5 PL, 140pts]
. Malanthrope
+ Elites +
Hive Guard [13 PL, 288pts]
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
+ Heavy Support +
Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]
Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]
Tyrannofex [11 PL, 208pts]: Rupture Cannon, Stinger Salvo
++ Total: [109 PL, 1,999pts] ++
Going for anti cover and having -1 everywhere(albeit close to useless)Edit on the 1st list after re-reading the Sporefield strat. I cannot include the 2 units of spore mines in the list to get them since they must be added as reinforcements right? Meaning they cant take slots in the force org right? Just in case i made this ++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Tyranids) [107 PL, 1,940pts] +++ No Force Org Slot +Hive Fleet: Leviathan + HQ +Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: Warlord, Warlord Trait: Perfectly Adapted Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: The Norn Crown Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 72pts]: Boneswords, Spinefists + Troops +Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 82pts]. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 82pts]. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 84pts]. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 86pts]. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon + Elites +Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: 5x Zoanthrope Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: 5x Zoanthrope Zoanthropes [10 PL, 200pts]: 5x Zoanthrope + Fast Attack +Meiotic Spores [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Meiotic Spore Mucolid Spores [1 PL, 20pts]: Mucolid Spore Mucolid Spores [1 PL, 20pts]: Mucolid Spore + Heavy Support +Biovores [2 PL, 50pts]: Biovore Biovores [4 PL, 100pts]: 2x Biovore Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]Mawloc [6 PL, 104pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail ++ Total: [107 PL, 1,940pts] ++ |
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Post by browno on Oct 24, 2019 9:00:09 GMT
This is what i would try if i had all the models.
++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Tyranids) [102 PL, 2,000pts] ++
+ HQ +
Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]
Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]
The Swarmlord [15 PL, 250pts]
+ Troops +
Hormagaunts [9 PL, 150pts]: 30x Hormagaunt
Hormagaunts [9 PL, 150pts]: 30x Hormagaunt
Hormagaunts [9 PL, 150pts]: 30x Hormagaunt
+ Elites +
Zoanthropes [12 PL, 240pts]: 6x Zoanthrope
Zoanthropes [12 PL, 240pts]: 6x Zoanthrope
Zoanthropes [12 PL, 240pts]: 6x Zoanthrope
+ Heavy Support +
Biovores [4 PL, 100pts]: 2x Biovore
Biovores [6 PL, 150pts]: 3x Biovore
Biovores [6 PL, 150pts]: 3x Biovore
++ Total: [102 PL, 2,000pts] ++
Reasoning to just tie enemy units up with mines and hormies. Then some smart placement of zoans to take out the worst stuff. It may work or not, but might be worth a try.
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