How do we deal with the New Knights?
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Post by mattblowers on Jul 16, 2018 21:03:58 GMT
Biovores and gargoyles are a pretty reasonable way to hem them in. How do you use gargoyles to hem in the knights? Is it just a matter of making sure they can't move through them? Can knights fall back through gargoyles? Gargs move really fast and have a huge footprint. Sure they can fall back, but with good unit placement, you can still direct where they go. Don't charge the knight, just block it. |
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Post by hiveminded on Jul 16, 2018 21:45:08 GMT
Knights really aren't that bad to play against. Yes, they have a good codex, but pretty much every faction has a good codex these days.
We have the tools.
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Post by dan3dim on Jul 16, 2018 22:20:39 GMT
We have numbers.
Knight was too few model, likely most fewest models in whole faction that hard to die. It’s do not have enough power to wipe us off the table... Just a hard nuts that need cracked.
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Post by Indominus on Jul 18, 2018 8:37:09 GMT
Jesus Christ this thread does not give me much more hope in humanity than I already had. Just bring what works for you, and play well and fairly. If you come up against knights and you havnt really got heavy weapons, there are still way for you to win, and for them to win. That's how this game works at its core.
Tl;DR - Stop arguing over whether toys that are bigger than ours can be beaten reliably or not. Reliability doesnt always take center stage in a game mostly decided by dice.
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Post by gigasnail on Jul 18, 2018 9:08:21 GMT
yeah, if you just play one game, your dice results are going to be (please do not swear) (i.e. not a reliable indicator of, well, anything). that's how probability and small sample sizes work and why most people are really, really bad about understanding math in general and probability in particular.
but unless you just plan on playing one game ever, then, lol, no. of course you want reliable units and strategies.
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Post by mattblowers on Jul 18, 2018 11:13:39 GMT
Jesus Christ this thread does not give me much more hope in humanity than I already had. Just bring what works for you, and play well and fairly. If you come up against knights and you havnt really got heavy weapons, there are still way for you to win, and for them to win. That's how this game works at its core. Tl;DR - Stop arguing over whether toys that are bigger than ours can be beaten reliably or not. Reliability doesnt always take center stage in a game mostly decided by dice. Your first mistake was coming to an internet forum in hopes that your faith in humanity would be restored.  The point of the thread is supposed to be how to deal with knights, not dice probabilities. |
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Post by dan3dim on Jul 18, 2018 13:27:22 GMT
Indeed! Indeed! It’s not depend on dices result. I was glad that I follow dice god, not mathgod... [edit] why I haven’t said why I was agree?! Warhammer40k is more into Tactic rather than Math... |
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Post by dan3dim on Jul 18, 2018 13:41:24 GMT
My last post was not made a sense... let clean up..
I mean it’s not depend on mathhammer because it do not accuracy data... it would be like.... 1 in 500 chance of accuracy that mathhammer was correct.
Gants can kill knight outright if Nids player roll very well and knight player roll extreme poorly roll!
Knight can crush every single faction if knight player always winner at dice roll... boring!
I like variable, that where dice came in. Very random!
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Post by undertow92182 on Jul 18, 2018 13:52:07 GMT
My last post was not made a sense... let clean up.. I mean it’s not depend on mathhammer because it do not accuracy data... it would be like.... 1 in 500 chance of accuracy that mathhammer was correct. Gants can kill knight outright if Nids player roll very well and knight player roll extreme poorly roll! Knight can crush every single faction if knight player always winner at dice roll... boring! I like variable, that where dice came in. Very random! I believe you have missed the point entirely. The idea behind working on tactics is to essentially look at averages rather than raw variability to decide a best course of action. I shall give a real life example. The weatherman on the news says there is an 80% chance of rain so you decide to bring an umbrella with you. Chance are you are going to face that rain so you will be happy you brought something to mitigate it's effects on your life. Now, a different person has an event coming up and aren't happy just believing in what the weatherman tells them and decides to look at other sources. They decide to track trends to get more accurate numbers and see what multiple meteorologists are reporting. His friend says "Wow, that's a lot of effort to try and predict rain" and the person says "Yes, but I will be better prepared for my event and make sure to accommodate or change my plans." If you can follow the above basic reasoning you can understand the heart of a math based tactics discussion. We don't like leaving everything to chance and instead see why certain units perform better/worse in different scenarios and be able to adjust as needed. |
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Post by dan3dim on Jul 18, 2018 14:05:48 GMT
My last post was not made a sense... let clean up.. I mean it’s not depend on mathhammer because it do not accuracy data... it would be like.... 1 in 500 chance of accuracy that mathhammer was correct. Gants can kill knight outright if Nids player roll very well and knight player roll extreme poorly roll! Knight can crush every single faction if knight player always winner at dice roll... boring! I like variable, that where dice came in. Very random! I believe you have missed the point entirely. The idea behind working on tactics is to essentially look at averages rather than raw variability to decide a best course of action. I shall give a real life example. The weatherman on the news says there is an 80% chance of rain so you decide to bring an umbrella with you. Chance are you are going to face that rain so you will be happy you brought something to mitigate it's effects on your life. Now, a different person has an event coming up and aren't happy just believing in what the weatherman tells them and decides to look at other sources. They decide to track trends to get more accurate numbers and see what multiple meteorologists are reporting. His friend says "Wow, that's a lot of effort to try and predict rain" and the person says "Yes, but I will be better prepared for my event and make sure to accommodate or change my plans." If you can follow the above basic reasoning you can understand the heart of a math based tactics discussion. We don't like leaving everything to chance and instead see why certain units perform better/worse in different scenarios and be able to adjust as needed. Warhammer40k is more into Tactic rather than Math... Pawn capture Knight... queen capture king. There are no math, only Tactic. Strength against weakness. Weakness can overcome strength with good Tactic. Spartan with 300 men’s beat thousand armies. This topic is all about how we beat knight, not how we beat rock with scissor. |
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Post by undertow92182 on Jul 18, 2018 14:24:12 GMT
There is no tactics without math.. period. It is all predictive decision making based on probability of outcome. This is all math.
In chess if you want that pawn to capture a knight you need to move your pieces using their abilities to trap said knight into a scenerio where the pawn will take it. That pawn will not out maneuver that knight so you need to consider the probability your opponent will make certain moves and figure out which pieces they value enough to protect/prioritize.
Weakness CAN overcome strength but a tactic build on throwing sand at a bulldozer hoping you get lucky and enough gets sucked into the air intake and clogs the filters is not tactics it is borderline just praying for divine intervention. If, instead, you look around and realize you have a rifle and the cab of the bulldozer is open so you have a clear shot at the operator and take him out to capitalize on weakness is using probability to make educated choices.
In Warhammer we have even more control over variables and can create advantages for ourselves if we pay attention to the math behind these dice rolls. To disregard it is similar to putting a saddle on a horse and not paying attention to which way it is facing. You're just hoping you get it right instead of taking informed actions.
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Post by dan3dim on Jul 18, 2018 23:40:07 GMT
I don’t do predictive decision making based on probability.
I doing study their way how they put the model and I foresaw every single movement and I place all prepare to do a overlap strike. Three step ahead before I start decision.
So far, my opposite always done what I was expected they would do it. It’s too cliché and no ‘art of war’.
2,000 worth of Astra Militarum against my single flyrant, single crone, single harpy and a brood of hornagant.
I crush them, not with my Dice luck or help with number of dices. I was very poorly roll but I still crush them because I start from boardedge left side or right side start with where wyvern or heavy squad team mortar sitting. Mow down and clog down through their line and stay out of line of sight from the rest of their units.
My opposite cannot shoot anything for whole two turns while I already wipe out half of those unit. My reserve units start arrive to add-on mow down the rest in ‘sandwich’ way.
That was Tactic advantage over my opposite. I know my way to beat Tau, Space marine ( not blood angel), Astra Militarum and Chao Space marine (not nightlord)..
Knight. I do not know Tactic to beat the knight unless I was allow to add more terrain and clog down their free to movement and wave by wave of attacks. That all I know. Math had do nothing to do with this.
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Post by Indominus on Jul 19, 2018 14:09:22 GMT
Jesus Christ this thread does not give me much more hope in humanity than I already had. Just bring what works for you, and play well and fairly. If you come up against knights and you havnt really got heavy weapons, there are still way for you to win, and for them to win. That's how this game works at its core. Tl;DR - Stop arguing over whether toys that are bigger than ours can be beaten reliably or not. Reliability doesnt always take center stage in a game mostly decided by dice. Your first mistake was coming to an internet forum in hopes that your faith in humanity would be restored. The point of the thread is supposed to be how to deal with knights, not dice probabilities. Didn't come here to restore my faith in humanity. As a race we are on a downward spiral anyway.
And I know this. Most of the best ways we have for dealing with knights have been shown in the first few pages. Its also why there's a Vs Imperial Knight page.
edit: Locked - Mods |
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