How do we deal with the New Knights?

[dan3dim]

Jul 10, 2018 18:15:36 GMT purestrain said:

Jul 10, 2018 17:28:51 GMT dan3dim said:

Imperial Knight player myself, I did play against Knight and play as knight too.

I can tell you that Acidy blood is scary and it is even worse if you put them on Catalyst.. every time they lose wound, it do count as acidy blood before you made roll for Catalyst.

Knight melee have very high damage output, more acidy blood in return.

I hate it.

If a model is slain??? Not suffers a wound?? Or is my memory terrible

You spilt the acidy blood when you lose wound.

[tomcaet]

Jul 10, 2018 18:36:19 GMT dan3dim said:

Jul 10, 2018 18:15:36 GMT purestrain said:

If a model is slain??? Not suffers a wound?? Or is my memory terrible

You spilt the acidy blood when you lose wound.

Whenever a model is destroyed. No multiplying acid.

[dan3dim]

How do it work? My opposite just pour acid blood on my model equal to my damage output.

If it’s single wound models, 1 acidly blood each so the rest of damage are go waste when it already lose wound. Acid blood pour once... then roll for fnp once...

Or

If it’s single wound models, 6 damage go on single model, one wound is lost = one acidly blood. 6 fnp roll for single model?

If my opposite was right,
Toxicrene is best at this because it have 12 wounds, huggle knight while losing it wounds.

If my opposite is wrong,
Drop knight to half already when it kill armless Toxicrene if acidly blood are equity to number of wounds without fnp.

[clokwrkpig]

Jul 11, 2018 8:41:31 GMT dan3dim said:

How do it work? My opposite just pour acid blood on my model equal to my damage output.

If it’s single wound models, 1 acidly blood each so the rest of damage are go waste when it already lose wound. Acid blood pour once... then roll for fnp once...

Or

If it’s single wound models, 6 damage go on single model, one wound is lost = one acidly blood. 6 fnp roll for single model?

If my opposite was right,
Toxicrene is best at this because it have 12 wounds, huggle knight while losing it wounds.

If my opposite is wrong,
Drop knight to half already when it kill armless Toxicrene if acidly blood are equity to number of wounds without fnp.

I get the impression that your opponent has misunderstood the stratagem.  From what you are saying, it sounds like your opponent claims they deal a mortal wound to you, for every wound they lose?  That's straight up wrong.

If they've played the stratagem on a unit, then whenever that unit loses a model then they might deal a mortal wound to you, if they roll a 6.  Your opponent shouldn't roll for acid blood until the model is actually removed, and even then it's only a 1/6 chance.

(Haruspex have a similar rule, but theirs applies to lost wounds.  It still only deals a mortal wound 1/6 of the time though.)

[dan3dim]

Jul 11, 2018 10:27:48 GMT clokwrkpig said:

Jul 11, 2018 8:41:31 GMT dan3dim said:

How do it work? My opposite just pour acid blood on my model equal to my damage output.

If it’s single wound models, 1 acidly blood each so the rest of damage are go waste when it already lose wound. Acid blood pour once... then roll for fnp once...

Or

If it’s single wound models, 6 damage go on single model, one wound is lost = one acidly blood. 6 fnp roll for single model?

If my opposite was right,
Toxicrene is best at this because it have 12 wounds, huggle knight while losing it wounds.

If my opposite is wrong,
Drop knight to half already when it kill armless Toxicrene if acidly blood are equity to number of wounds without fnp.

I get the impression that your opponent has misunderstood the stratagem.  From what you are saying, it sounds like your opponent claims they deal a mortal wound to you, for every wound they lose?  That's straight up wrong.

If they've played the stratagem on a unit, then whenever that unit loses a model then they might deal a mortal wound to you, if they roll a 6.  Your opponent shouldn't roll for acid blood until the model is actually removed, and even then it's only a 1/6 chance.

(Haruspex have a similar rule, but theirs applies to lost wounds.  It still only deals a mortal wound 1/6 of the time though.)

I took handful of (please do not swear) moral wound!

[mattblowers]

Jul 11, 2018 11:43:40 GMT dan3dim said:

I took handful of (please do not swear) moral wound!

Moral wounds are the harshest to overcome.

[dan3dim]

There another one I did took handful of moral wound is from great ugly one. When I wipe out his pox walkers with my warriors barb straghorn spam, I send broodlord + 40 genestealers, overkill it but their blood pour all over my broodlord and genestealers, wipe them out... great ugly one roll for fnp and it still alive with only 6 wound left... fffff

Is that a mistake too? I lose my ladder match to that single model(!)

[tomcaet]

If it's Toxicrene and its Acid Blood, not the Caustic Blood Stratagem, then Catalyst might do something - it applies at the same time (or was it clarified otherwise?) as the Acid Blood, so depending on the active player - they decide the order - the extra wounds might get dealt. Still on a roll of 6 of course.

As to the Great Unclean One, I don't know what is it that works similarly to this. There's a Death Guard artifact armour that deals damage on successful saves but GUO can't use it to my knowledge. Also, nothing to be done about lucky Disgustingly Resilient rolls. Make sure they're rolling for overkill wounds too though, they are only wasted if the model is actually destroyed.

Toxicrene will do on average two Acid Blood mortal wounds to a knight when squished. If it's your turn (or your opponent is feeling generous), and you expended Catalyst for that, on average that's a single mortal wound more, three in total. Hypertoxic Miasma (if it lives through one whole Fight phase) and Frenzied Death Throes (if it doesn't) might add something.

[dan3dim]

Do Tyranids have any ‘re-roll to any fail to wound’ in any phase? If we do have that, can use that to increase chance number of moral wounds per turn.

Edit:
I guess only affect on normal to wound roll..
Toxicrene have 6 attack, reroll to fail wounds. (Ws3+)6x S7 to (ws5+)4x S5 AP-2 D3 that alway go first. Plus acidly blood + Death Throes + Hypertoxic miasma that can hurt knight...

Toxicrene is bred to be Titan-killer, it’s their role. But their rule are meh. Best unit to tie up with Knight?

Good way to die, death to knight!

[tomcaet]

Jul 11, 2018 13:57:24 GMT dan3dim said:

Do Tyranids have any ‘re-roll to any fail to wound’ in any phase? If we do have that, can use that to increase chance number of moral wounds per turn.

Do you mean improving the opponent's chances to wound so more chances of getting wounded by blood? Nothing I know of.
Rerolling mortal wound tests? They're not "wound rolls" even though the result is a wound. We don't call Smite casts "wound rolls". No can do.
If we could re-roll Shockcannon attack wound rolls that would work, but nothing comes to mind. Kronos is to hit, they're not gants & gaunts who do get re-roll 1 to wound in big numbers, Voracious Appetite is for Monsters and Fight phase only, Gorgon and some others are also Fight phase only.

[dan3dim]

Yeah. And refresh the page I did update earlier.

Knight have 24 wounds. Not fast enough. Bah

Maybe overlap of moral wound spam?
Any idea?

[dan3dim]

Really. Not fast enough..

Why? Because I only lose my knight once. Once!

That was melee fight that was illegit wound that shouldn’t count.

I did rip Baneblade apart, throw lemen russ at another Lemen russ and kill them both at same time. Mow down countless ork mobs and foot stomp all of those space marine...

No chance for Tyranids. Impossible to beat Knights!

I own 5 questoris class and 2 armiger class, was think about buying another armiger class... but I think it’s unfair now.

[afewveiws]

Technically, acid blood on some units/models could work like this:

Pyrovore has 4w so if it will take a minimum of 2 knight stomps to kill. That means if they both do 3 damage then that one model does receive 6 damage. Now since the wording on the model is the way it is then, on your turn for sure, you could roll 6 acid bloods and then maybe survive through fnp.

Then raises another question: can you decide to not use all of your attacks? For example genestealers charge and surround an unit of chaff, then you role your attacks in small groups until there is only 1-2 enemy models left and then not finish attacking? If you can't, then you can severely over kill a unit with acid blood and get alot more acid blood checks then wounds in the unit.

Not sure what all the FAQs say but one way or the other we have a trick we can use.

[afewveiws]

Jul 11, 2018 14:43:28 GMT dan3dim said:

No chance for Tyranids. Impossible to beat Knights!

Lol really? By specializeing our lists we could easily destroy a knight list. Even in a all comers list we can kill one by suiciding OOE.

The main purpose of this thread is to evaluate as many possible ways to take out a knight as possible so that we can still maintain a fully flexable all-comers approach to our tournament lists while still having a successful plan to deal with the 3-5 knight lists.

I've only lost to knights once so far, but it was my first play against them and it was just a kill them all game so no objectives or points.

[kazetanade]

Jul 11, 2018 23:46:55 GMT afewveiws said:

Technically, acid blood on some units/models could work like this:

Pyrovore has 4w so if it will take a minimum of 2 knight stomps to kill. That means if they both do 3 damage then that one model does receive 6 damage. Now since the wording on the model is the way it is then, on your turn for sure, you could roll 6 acid bloods and then maybe survive through fnp.

Then raises another question: can you decide to not use all of your attacks? For example genestealers charge and surround an unit of chaff, then you role your attacks in small groups until there is only 1-2 enemy models left and then not finish attacking? If you can't, then you can severely over kill a unit with acid blood and get alot more acid blood checks then wounds in the unit.

Not sure what all the FAQs say but one way or the other we have a trick we can use.

I dont believe you have the option of holding back attacks. That requires proper positioning of models in combat.

If a Pyrovore has 4W I dont think you can lose 6W... i get where the catalyst idea comes from but not sure the damage applies without it.