I actually tied vs the Baneblade. He really didnt like moving with them, so he didnt score anything other than the kill objectives and his own defends/secures.
I was slightly lucky he couldnt really score most of his cards due to ruins blocking access - hey ho for placing objectives in square ruins. The table was so bad, if we didnt play the RUINS ruins (it was like stonehenge - a few pillars standing and broken, but doesnt actually block anything) in the middle as ITC ruins (as in everything on ground floor blocks line of sight), I would have been tabled on T1.
Game 2 is the game where I am super pissed off. 48 anti-tank shots into a bloodthirster 3+Hit reroll 1s, I got 8? or 10? damage. At most I got 11 damage, from 24 Hive Guard shots and 24 Exocrine shots... Not only that, but 48 Double Dev shots into Pink Horrors, and only 8 died. What the flying (please do not swear). Then I couldnt shoot the DPs because of Magnus being unkillable in my line. Couldnt even stop his spells, even with KRONOS strat and SitW. 3++ reroll 1s all day long and the DP just hiding and smiting like cowards. Best part? I scored ASSASSINATE, AREA DENIAL, and DEFEND (his) OBJECTIVE on T1, and they were all impossible to score, because he had DPs and a big blob of Pink Horrors blocking the way to all the scoring cards. On my next turn? BIG GAME HUNTER - after his Bloodthirster died and the only targetable MC left is Magnus.
Game 3 I conceded because I built the basis of that list for the player, so I know exactly how it works - it works exactly like mine. But with more range, more damage, and more bodies, and more out of LOS shooting. He opted to trade my mobility traits for a shadowsword and Celestine, but I wouldnt be able to score anything other than Secure/Defend Objective X on my own table edge.
No One the other Nid list went 2-0-1, actually. I think he could do 3-0-0, but the last game he didnt play seriously. I mean, he was shooting HG into nurglings not even near objectives when there were plaguecrawlers and bloatdrones on the table to shoot. I've seen his list preparations for matchups and he should know the threats - I can only assume he was trolling at that point. But every game was pretty close in score, because his list isnt built for scoring. It's a pure damage and TA the opponent list.
For the record, our points are recorded similar to ITC, with this differential scoring thing, but we're not using W/L ratios to determine matchups. The top 3 also were heads and shoulders above everyone else - TA gives full points and the top 2 got double TAs in a row. The top player got 3 in a row. I have grievances which I will cover in Thoughts Going Forward later on.
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BatReps:Game 1: AM Cadian vs Kronos / Leviathan Tyranids
AM List
2 x Hellhammers
1 x Shadowsword
1 x Basilisk
1 x Company Commander
1 x Primaris Psyker
1 x Engiseer
3 x Mortar teams
Tyranid List
3 x Dakkaflyrants
1 x Neurothrope
2 x Exocrines
1 x 6 Hive Guard
3 x 10 Termagants
1 x 3 Venomthropes
1 x 1 Biovore
1 x 1 Sporocyte
1 x 16 Genestealers
2 x 3 Rippers
Game type: VP based on KP(every 10 PL = 2 VP), Maelstrom. Deployment Dawn of War. Table with 4 low ruins in corners and 2 open view ruins in the middle of the table. He deployed spread across his side, I set up with HG and venomthropes in a corner and two Exocrines out in the middle - I used the centre "ruin" to block vision from the shadowsword, and each Exocrine could only be targetted by 1 Hellhammer each. Flyrants in reserve and Gaunts just spread across the field. Genestealers in node in the opposite corner. He won roll to start. I failed to sieze.
T1
He drew terrible cards - secure objectives on my side. Hellhammers moved out a little to get better line of sight and shot the Exocrines - 3D6 on 5+ reroll 1s wounding on 3+ and he consistently scored 5 wounds, so 1 Hellhammer evaporated an Exocrine each. Shadowsword twiddled its thumbs. Basilisk shot Hive Guard, 2 died.
I drew secure objective mine and kill a unit - scored 1 points. Flyrants came down, all clustered infront of the shadowsword. Smite smite smite, catalyst, the Horor. Shooting phase Hive Guard doubled tapped, one Dakkadev into an open Mortar team to score a point, the rest into the Shadowsword. Shadowsword now shoots on a 6+, 7+ vs venomthropes.
T2
He drew Overwhelming Firepower and defend his own objective- set too far away to score it. Nothing moved, Hellhammers unloaded into the Flyrants and killed 2. Shadowsword shot but only 2 wound, 1 I saved I think, took about 6 damage after catalyst. I'm pretty sure he used Cadian +1 Hit strategem so I'm not sure how the 3rd Flyrant survived, I think it was pure luck. He scores 1 since the HB and other guns just cant seem to kill my Termagants.
I drew kill Characters and Secure Objective (mine) again, so I scored 1. Only one flyrant left, so I make a mad dash to the 2 Characters - CC and Engiseer, thinking I could smite the CC to death and shoot the Engiseer to death. Unfortunately, Smite manifested 1 damage and the Engiseer was T4 3+ W5, taking only 2 wounds. The HG double shot into the Shadowsword trying to kill it - 5HP remaining. Combat - Flyrant does a total of 1 wound after saves to the CC, so I dont score Assassinate.
T3 - T5
-At this point my memory is a bit blurry but basically he drew another secure or defend and another objective that he could score. T3 he blew up my last Flyrant and Sporocyte, I had my warlord Neurothrope run up ASAP and deliver smites into the Shadowsword until the HG killed it, he dies shortly after as I do a last ditch attempt at killing the Basilisk with HG and Neurothrope smite, and I eventually scored 6VP mostly through defend and secure objectives while he scored 4. KP the diferential was 2 as well, so we ended up tying.
Thoughts:
- I thought the Hellhammer was ignore LOS most of the game. If I had known then I would have hidden both Exocrines out of LOS as much as I could instead of giving 1 to each; I wanted to stop them from ganging up on 1 Exocrine and killing it 100%, as I thought 5+ to hit gave me decent chances at surviving for both Exocrines. But then they would be pretty bad, 6 shots 5+ S7 doesnt go very far. Mobility is lacking. They would have gotten to shoot but I'm not sure how much they could achieve. I dont think I could hide from 2 out of 3 of them anyway.
- Card (please do not swear). Too easy to get card (please do not swear). Not me, but him. I get card (please do not swear) next game too.
- GSC powers would have been really useful. The Sporocyst was a minor inconvenience and ignorable most of the game, but mind control would have been game winning. Hypnopsis also would have made Genestealers usable, even if they werent getting across the table.
- The Genestealers could do (please do not swear) all. They werent making it across the table, and they had nothing to counter charge, and even if they DID make it across, they arent surviving 30 HB + 3D6 shots, and even if they did, they'd still get shot because AM superheavies shoot into combat no problem, so they sat on some objectives to score. 200 points of objective sitter.
- The objective placement is (please do not swear) up. 2/3 games we place objectives AFTER deciding table edge. Meaning 3 objectives are immediately gone because they're placed as far back as possible with some min cappers sitting on it. My friend the baneblade put one of his too far forward, probably to bait me, but he couldnt score it because the Basilisk and Hellhammer cant move through ruins. I ended scoring that one by luck, rippers dropped and made the charge.
- The tables.... oh god the tables. Some of them were chock full of ruins, some had weird space station stuff going on, one was a canyon with a single hut for blocking LOS. It all looks reaaaaaaaally good, but plays terribly.
- I have doubts whether keeping the FLyrants in reserve was the right choice. If I had dropped all 5 MC on the table its possible I could have spread fire into the Flyrants and maybe survive with 5+ to hit on them. Game 2Mixed Daemons / Chaos Soup vs Kronos / Leviathan Nids
Daemons list
1x Magnus
3 x DPs
1 x Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage
1 x Fateskimmer
1 x Fateweaver
1 x Lord of Change
1 x 20 Bloodletters
1 x 30 Pink Horrors
3 x 10 Brimstones
Gametype: Relic, Maelstrom. Deployment Hammer and Anvil, one side has 2 massive LOS blockers and the other is empty. I picked the LOS blocker side. He setup Magnus outside of gun range, everything else up to the line but protected by character status. The bloodthirster and the bloodletters were in reserves. I had gaunts set up on the line, Exocrines pushed up against the LOS blockers, HG behind one of the LOS blockers, and some units at the back to deny deepstrike behind me. I left an open spot on the rear right with access to a single Neurothrope to bait a deepstrike. I also had a open spot on the front right to bait a deepstrike - I should have had 1 only, not 2 open spots.
T1
He started. No scorable objectives. Moves Magnus up and warptime + invul spell. Everything else comes up as far as possible. BT deepstrikes in behind, bloodletters deepstrike out front. Psychic he passes everything, I fail to deny and Kronos didnt help with the invul spell. Sporocyst used for Kronos strategem dies a horrible smited death. BT makes his charge on the bait Neurothrope, Magnus charges gaunts, Bloodletters fail their charge on bait Biovore. Nothing dies.
My turn, I draw defend his objective, Assassinate, Area Denial. I dropped the Flyrants to hit the pink horrors (because I couldnt reach the Bloodlettters due to the position between them and the BT) opposite side from the DPs and moved things around. Some arguments about deepstrikers - I clearly said I am only placing the deepstrikers as marking where they're coming later, I'm not placing them, he insists on the 2nd reposition that they're deepstruck and my movement is ended. I'll be a douchebag and turn them sideways on the table on his models next time. The warlord flyrant on the table just moved into position to cast smite on Magnus and shoot the bloodletters. Genestealers left nodes in order to countercharge the BT. Psychic, I passed the very first spell which was scream on the BT for 3 wounds, then failed everything (catalyst passed after a very angry command reroll) and the last smite, which was on pink horrors. What I didnt fail, was denied. Shooting, I shot 48 shots (both exocrines, and HG doubletap) into the Bloodthirster, who had a 4++ artefact, and he took 11 wounds from all that shooting? (I'm not sure. Psychic + Shoot + melee was just enough wounds to kill it). WTF. I shot 2 Flyrants into the pink horrors, only 8 died. Double WTF. At least the bloodletters died as they should, taking 11 losses from shooting. Combat, the Genestealers hiding in the node managed to get into combat with the BT, but due to arguments on 1" of base within 1" of enemy base, we had a TO rule for always 2 rows due to BRB wording. FML, only 2/3 of the Genestealers made it in. Made 4 wounds, which was enough to kill it barely, but then he command rerolled a save into a pass. Forgot about implant attack which would have let me intercept the bloodletters from the Exocrine later.
T2
He moved Magnus out of combat into the backside of an Excorine. The BT fought and died, the bloodletters moved in to charge the biovore and consolidate into the exocrine later. 2 DPs moved to try and take out a Flyrant. Pink horrors try to snatch the relic. Psychic I failed to deny everything other than the invul spell on Magnus, which I had to burn a Kronos strategem on just to have a chance to deny it. His shooting the pink horrors didnt do much. Combat, the Magnus ate Exocrine no. 1 and Bloodletters tied up Exocrine no. 2. He scores like 3 objectives now.
I draw BIG GAME HUNTER the next turn - the BT is already dead, so only Magnus can be scored on that. Area denial is stuck because the pink horrors took next to no damage and the DPs now swarm the middle. FML again. I move the Flyrants around to kill a LOC, and to wipe what's left of the Pink Horror squad, and to kill a DP with smites and last guy shooting and combat. Genestealers move to finish the bloodletters, HG want to shoot the DPs but cant cuz character protection so they shoot Magnus, 3damage yay. Psychic I casted everytthing I could, Neurothrope went for a hero smite on the bloodletters to wipe the last 3 guys, but periled to death instead. The Flyrants failed their smite castings, and the one that passed was easily denied by Magnus. Catalyst went up no issue. Shooting was predictable - Magnus took 3 damage, the pink horrors had 3 guys remaining, a DP nearly died with 1W left after the Flyrants charge it and try to force saves with no melee weapons. I score Assassinate for managing to kill the LOC.
T3
He moved Magnus into the other Exocrine. DPs move to smite to death a Flyrant and charge the other. Pinks took the relic and tried to run. Brimstones came up to meet and pick up relic later. Psychic, smite smite invul super smite smite again warptime even more smites. I lose a Flyrant. Combat, Magnus eats another Exocrine, another Flyrant dies. He scores another 1 or 2 objectives.
My last Flyrant shot at the pinks to kill it. Genestealers moved to defend the new objective. HG shot into Magnus because cant shoot anyone else, 1Damage yay. Flyrant manifests psychic and then charges a DP, killing it I think not like it matters I get no points for killing stuff unless I have a card.
T4
He moved Magnus around and supersmited the Genestealers. DPs kill off the Flyrant and I lose all synapse. Magnus chops up the Genestealers, they all die to supersmite and attacks. I dont score defend objective.
I shoot the HG into Magnus because CHARACTERS. 2Damage.
At this point we ran out of time.
Thoughts:
- Character protection is broken. I lost this matchup almost 70% because of Character Protection stopping my HGs from shooting the DPs, whom they can wipe 1 DP per firing round. DPs should be 10W.
- Magnus is hard to kill. I really need something to deal with Daemon Primarchs, that was ridiculous. Beta Smites coming in, so its either waaaaaaay more biovores, or some other shenanigans. Maybe spamming as cheap as possible lascannons could do it. 4+ reroll 1s lascannon teams could be something to look at seriously.
- My traps are too fancy. I opened up bait holes for him which he took hook line sinker - but I couldnt follow up to kill what came out. Somehow I guess I'm not a Ynnari Dark Reaper unit who would have shot once when they came out, shoot again during their turn, and shoot again in the psychic phase for being Ynnari. It would have been more beneficial to just deny the holes in the first place and force him to coagulate outside infront of my firing line, and let me focus down Magnus first rather than the Bloodthirster.
- I need more bodies for a static gunline. Deny the enemy the 6 objective cards, and deny ever moving in from the back to attack my Exocrines. Absorb the smites. bog him down forever.
- I need 48" guns. 36" is a liability due to how most map types can outrange it. Dark Reapers would have loved the match up on that map since I would never reach them (but that's why I have Flyrants).
- Genestealers with 2 rows only, counter-charge becomes a little bit hard, or just not great. They've performed ok in combat but without Swarmlord are proving not very good or flexible, I am seriously thinking of just replacing it with more shooting or other things. I just have to change my maelstrom deck to the AM one to avoid fight phase nonsense.
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Thoughts Going Forward:
1. The objective scoring needs to change, or I need to play a drastically different style or army. Nids are very slow short of specific units - Genestealers for troops, Flyrants for HQ, Fliers. I could legitimately move faster as an AM army. Could do horde cheaper too.
2. Nid objective cards are (please do not swear). 1 VP 1 VP 1 VP and the D3 ones are hard to score - killing multiple Characters? Pffffft yea I'd never even get to shoot at them. Kill more than 3 in Fight phase to score more than 1 VP. Next round I'm definitely bringing GSC AM and using their tactical card deck instead, it's 4/6 easier to score with more points attached.
3. Sporocyte has to go. The Eldar armies that rely on psychic have an Eldrad and Daemon armies have Magnus or other abilities to assist in casting - I find it hard to deny spells by just using the Kronos strategem (T1 no psyker is in range to actually deny), and vs Magnus after KRONOS + SitW I STILL COULDNT DENY HIS SPELLS. By itself it gives nothing, taking 3 is a point sink and with the way objectives are placed, they get very little out of being on the board. At best it stops deepstrike armies from piling on my front door, but short of that its performance was (expected) but unhelpful. The spores are okay IF YOU GO FIRST, and IF THEY DONT FLY.
4. If I am going to use shooting gunline lists for Nids again, I will considering swapping Exocrine for Tyranofex. The Rupture Cannon would prove a big threat to things like Magnus. I want an Exocrine just for Pathogenic Slime being their best candidate, but he hasnt been performing very well.
5. I need more mobility. Flyrants are great, but they arent scorers. Or rather, I just need 1 or 2 units of obsec to swarm certain objectives when I need. I think I will redesign a list to make use of Swarmlord. He gives a ridiculous amount of utility that we cannot get otherwise, not even through the 3D6 Primus shenanigans which I think arent that great due to Forewarning shooting up that unit into dust before it gets to play (but would be great otherwise).
6. Most of my scoring understanding needs to be re-thought out. Not only did I fail to see the major problem with the scoring in this game, but I heard we are also changing it up to complete ITC rules copy pasta after the debacle.
7. There were a lot of questions on the TO's accountability and trustworthiness. Proxies that were not acceptable were allowed in, very odd pairings with certain people being paired up against people from the same club and certain friendly parties getting matchups where they could easily TA their opponents. Members of their "assistance committee" being part of the event, and coming in 2nd place and getting a ticket to the GT. Poor ruling such as allowing CSM/Aeldari/DG etc to cross-faction strategem effect, but specifically restricting Nids - GSC due to "YOUR FAQ SO CLEAR BRO". What makes the matter worse is how small the community is - we're only like 20 players. Of course later everything checks out as "clean", but a lot of issues were to be had with people and I hear our country's GW rep got wind of the event and its debacle and came to speak his mind on it. Quite sternly in fact. Like, certain threats about future tournament support/recognition and stuff kind of stern.
. Hopefully salvageable?
).