|
Post by No One on Nov 19, 2017 12:48:05 GMT
Just finished the tournament. Went very well, 4-1-1 (ended up placing 4th overall out of 50+, which was great). List was basically the above: dropped Larry+AG on the gargs (because the FAQ on Friday came out after lists were in, so it wasn't legal ) for 2 stealers. Quick run down (will try and do proper battle reports over the week). NB: Scores are based on VP differentials. Game 1: Triple custodes raiders+custodes squad. Didn't really do much to them, but they didn't do a massive amount to me either (4++ is great). I got Domination with a stealer HC, and a 4 pt objective from under a raider with metabollic overdrive on the devilgants for the win on VP. Flyrants chunked a custodes squad over a couple of turns, devilgant drop (+stealers+feeder for the last 2) to kill Celestine the first time, SL for the second. About the only interesting things I think. Won 17-3. Game 2: List looked like a horrible match up: Alaitoc, double hemlock+crimson hunter, bunch of serpents, triple fire prisms. Smoked a flyrant T1, but gargs were able to wrap some stuff and be annoying (forcing him back into DZ), flyrant made a charge out of DS to kill a hemlock (other was almost killed by smite+shooting+spores, and killed later). Overrun to get flyrant back into mal bubble . He surprisingly didn't get much done through mal+4++, which was good. Stealers got a WS down to 1 wound in the back corner, gargs forced prisms to move. WS couldn't escape, it and all occupants died his turn (overrun again: that stratagem is great). Unfortunately game ended just as I was about to charge all his stuff with SL+trygon+flyrant+stealers, but hey. Still won 17-3. Game 3: Mortarion, dakka knight, double pox+40 cultists. I...misplayed a bit here I think (I was tired and hadn't played against either Mortarion or the knight enough to really know what they were capable off). Played defensive T1, then jumped on Mortarion T2. DS flyrant failed a charge, SL whiffed (4 1s ) and then got punked because I forget 3++. Then ran away, hid behind a garg screen, and capped the objective in his DZ (3 pts) with a stealer charge (Behemoth for the win ) and the other (3 pts) in the back corner of mine with the devilgants (who'd been having a shoot out against the cultists on the 'little kids' side: the entire rest of his army+mine was on the other side of the board ). Victory, 16-4. Game 4: Mortarion, Magnus, stormlord, leviathan dread, some malefic lords, Changeling and some cultists. Bit of an odd game: just hid T1. Got charge T2 by Mortarion, who brutally murdered a fex, then Swarmlord did a decent chunk of wounds (heroic intervention, since he hadn't been declared as a target). They wacked away at each other for the rest of the game, almost managing to kill him, but he made saves pretty decently towards the end: SL was winning thanks to the 3++ and t-guard too . Not much else happened: flyrant failed a charge against the dread, but did pretty well against it in shooting/psychic. Soul hunger did quite a few wounds (he kept rolling 5s for smite) on the lords, but I think it probably only helped kill 1 or 2. Stealers+trygon charged magnus, but couldn't pile in well enough: trygon did some wounds, then got murdered (unsurprisingly). Then just grabbed some objectives with gargs. Ended up being a draw. Game 5: Ouch. Another Alaitoc Eldar. But this one was spearhead (i.e. Hammer and Anvil), and he had 2 squads of dark reapers. Unfortunately nothing really went well: I just didn't have the damage or the means of engagement (didn't help that my stealers failed to wrap the dark reapers because they rolled poorly and thus got shot to pieces ). Basically tabled, lost 20-0. Game 6: Actually a really good army for me to play against. Just lots of tanks and a stormlord. No screens, just russes and some manticores. And then I got first turn . I couldn't quite get onto everything to stop it shooting with the gargs, and the stormlord did work (smoked a flyrant and t-guard T1: both failed charges ), and then almost killed the other on the charge: and then I struck back and did a bunch of wounds, degrading it when combined with the HVC shots (go 6s!). He then charged it into SL, who killed it and then overrun to get a charge on tanks next turn (and also got me 2 VP and saved my gaunts ). Slowly mulched through the army with stealers+SL (though SL did die on the last turn), picking up a decent number of maelstrom objectives. Ended up winning (can't remember final score: 15-5?) due to a clutch CP reroll. Last wound on my WL from heavy bolters (from a russ hitting on 6s): failed, passed with my last CP. That saved an objective (contesting the support vehicle), a KP, WL, and kingslayer . I love the lonely fleshborer hanging with the cool kids. “Hey guys!!” “Awww (please do not swear). We get Larry again!?” Unfortunately Larry had to leave to make room for the mean old stealer .
|
|
|
Post by No One on Nov 29, 2017 15:58:15 GMT
(Put up the first game of the tournament in my battle report thread). So, been mucking about with a 2k list: Battalion (Kraken) HQ Swarmlord 300 HQ Malanthrope 90 Elite Tyrant guard (3, RC, AG, TS) 117 Troops Stealers (19, TS, 4 acid maws) 304 Troops Termagants (13) 52 Troops Rippers (3) 33 HS Trygon (AG, biospike) 173 Battalion (Kraken) HQ Flyrant (MRC, HVC, TS, AG, -1 to hit relic) 204 HQ Neurothrope 70 Troops Rippers (3) 33 Troops Rippers (3) 33 Troops Rippers (3) 33 Spearhead (Jormungandr) HQ Neurothrope 70 Troops Devilgants (25) 200 HS Carnifex (HVC, devourers, +1BS, spore cysts) 126 HS Carnifex (HVC, devourers, +1BS, spore cysts) 126 HS Biovore 36 Total: 2000 pts Game plan: stealers+devilgants come in together, blow away the screen, stealers charge. Flyrant is annoying, fexes shoot stuff. And yes, you can fit that all around a trygon: it's awkward, but doable: and I don't think it's worth the pts for a 2nd trygon. A squad of ravs instead would probably be worth it...but I don't have. So far 2 games with it (well, the first one was non-ITC version, so 20 stealers ). Game 1 was against Chaos: double leviathan dread, double sicaran (ignores hit penalties on Fly. Poor flyrant ) and some cultists/hellbrutes. Went really well: seized, devilgants (with some help from a dakkafex) melted cultists, stealers charged to tie up basically everything (leviathans and a sicaran). Then fell back to recharge and tie up some other stuff while SL killed the forward leviathan, so everything was able to advance up safely. He conceded with everything locked in combat and basically no damage done to me (he killed the stealers, and...that was it). Game 2: IG. Bunch of outflanking infantry, outflanking shadowsword, some taurox/chimeras and some Catachan russes (FW: reroll to hit on battlecannon with the stormbolter). Also a valk. Got T1 again: stealers came on. Fexes knocked 9 wounds off a chimera, devilgants finished it off (so overkill having to bring them on there: nothing else was in range ). Stealers charged in, killed the infantry squad, overrun and adrenaline surge to tie everything up and surround the taurox. Whiffed totally though: no rends (8 guys) on the chimera, and nothing on the taurox (I was using stock cc to make sure I didn't kill it, but still only would've got 1 rend ). Welp. Everyone got out, charge the stealers and basically killed them (probably should've cast cat on them rather than SL. Oh well). Shadowsword showed up and whiffed (only 1 hit on the trygon...with 2 rerolls. Not even -1). Then flyrant showed up, horror on the shadowsword. Failed the charge on the valk. HVC from the fexes did wounds on stuff, devs killed some infantry squads (this was pretty consistently happening every turn). SL charged a chimera to murder it. His turn, killed SL and the trygon. My turn, flyrant charged the shadowsword: combined with some HVC and good rolling on MRC, dropped it down a tier (though I took ~7 wounds on overwatch ). With horror, it literally couldn't hit anything other than rippers: everything was -2 when it was hitting on 5+ . Killed the flyrant with the russes. Had to call it there due to time: scoring was heavily in my favour (ITC), with me controlling most of the objectives with rippers, though he came back on the last turn for 16-14. Thoughts: the stealers have been used more to tie stuff down. They've got teeth, but what I want them to do doesn't let them focus a target down. So, dropping the TS. Still think they're better than horms/gargs, since they've still got some teeth if needed for infantry/overrun/Fly. But not worth the price tag for the TS when I'm using them more to mitigate damage to the rest of my list. If I could trust them to live...but they're too fragile, as shown by the fact that they got killed in cc by guardsmen, random Characters and vehicles (both times). Fexes have been great: HVC is an awesome gun now. Still not sold on devs over deathspitters (especially when I'm not advancing T1 due to Jormungandr), but I think the increased output T2+ is worth it? It definitely was in the game with guard, but...eh. Kraken...hmm...my opinion on it's been panning out similar to how I thought it would (i.e. inconsistently useful). But...I've been able to much more reliably get wraps with the devilgants being awesome and conscripts not being a thing. And the 3D6 advance is very nice on the support stuff (mal, t-guard, SL, neuros). So, with that and the mal price hike, thinking of dropping TS and some devilgants/stealers for a flyrant instead of the mal. Lets me keep all my HQs, and gives me some more teeth. Probably Behemoth for the rerolls (I've already got the Kraken -1, so I need some other mitigation), since that doesn't stuff up my dets: might make things a bit...interesting with Synapse though, but I guess it'd just be for the stealers anyway, so...yeah. Neuro and rippers don't care enough about Kraken.
|
|
|
Post by No One on Dec 1, 2017 9:56:12 GMT
So, with the CA leaks, thinking of including some Cult stuff. The strats are good, but not scale-able, so it works as an addition to a nid/IG army, but not as a Cult army . Battalion (Behemoth) HQ Flyrant (MRC, HVC, TS, AG) 204 HQ Flyrant (MRC, Devs, TS, AG) 193 HQ Flyrant (Devs, HVC) 209 Elites Hive Guard (6 impaler) 288 Troops Termagants (23 devs, 1 fleshborer) 188 Troops Rippers (3) 33 Troops Rippers (3) 33 HS Trygon (AG, biospike) 173 FA Gargs (19, AG) 133 Supreme Command (GSC) HQ Primus 76 HQ Magus 73 HQ Magus 73 Elite Aberrants (4 hammers, 1 pick) 159 Spearhead (IG) HQ Company Commander (Shotgun, WL, Aquila) 30 HS HWT (3xMortar) 33 HS HWT (2xMortar, Lascannon) 48 HS HWT (2xHB, Lascannon) 54 Total: 2000 General idea: devilgants come in, double tap to kill any infantry. Gargs come in either this turn (if there's something they can charge that isn't going to get evaporated by the gaunts) or next. Essentially there to threaten to tie down stuff, since that's been a big part of my play style that I otherwise wouldn't be able to do (I wanted SL for the guarantee here, but fitting him and t-guard in would be...a bit tight, and there's no other MCs and no mal, so...eh. Not sure about worth there). Dakkaflyrant comes in T1 for Synapse for the HG ( really not sure about this: original version had some fexes+neuro for a bit more backfield presence, but...I felt I needed more forward punch, and it wasn't quite fitting pts wise. Hence flyrants. Could always spend 1 CP to give a magus the norn crown for IB ). Others do a similar thing to the gargs (i.e. T1 or T2 charges depending on targets), with Behemoth for the rerolls for all of them. Haberrants come in T2, whack a vehicle, fight again, whack another vehicle (hopefully): strat+primus+CP should make that charge pretty reliable. I hope. Combined with HG double tap, I should be looking to really clear stuff out. IG det to fuel all the stratagems . Concerns: Tad light on anti-infantry other than the devilgant drop, and very lacking on board presence though. Very little to protect the backfield: maybe swap a ripper squad to gaunts, just for a bit more area for DS screening? HVC/MRC flyrant could play back there I guess? I'm also running very short on drops, not able to stick the magus' or rippers in reserves. The habberant unit seems a tad small for what I'm wanting out of it, so I'm not sure if it's quite enough: don't have any more WYSIWYG hammers though, and don't like the idea of cutting more for more picks. (I liked the pick as an 'ablative', but at only 6 pts more now?) Not sure if the IG det is worth it over, say, a neuro+3 rippers for another battalion (or I guess seeing if I could squeeze out a brigade, though that'd require splitting the HG). If they survive...probably. It's more CP than I'd get otherwise (~14 equivalent as a lowball), and HWT are good for their pts. But...well, as above, I don't have much to protect them. All in all, it's the sort of thing that looks really nasty if everything goes right: I'm just concerned I'm trying to fit too much fun stuff in, and things will fall apart too easily.
|
|
|
Post by kazetanade on Dec 1, 2017 21:40:21 GMT
You can afford one less Flyrant on the Behemoth side to patch up the mid/backline a bit. There's a decent amount of threat from 2 hybrid Flyrants and a Trygon going on there. Sadly no GS but you dont need them here.
I would go with no less than 5 Habberants. Redundancies. If only the primus could take that relic...
Edit: your anti tank is sufficient to take out the problem ones. The rest you play tie up or partial degrade. I would personally add one more lascannon or remove the IG altogether for more HG but i can understand your cp concerns. Its an interesting idea.
|
|
|
Post by No One on Dec 2, 2017 4:28:13 GMT
You can afford one less Flyrant on the Behemoth side to patch up the mid/backline a bit. Yeah, probably should do that. That gives me a neuro and fill out a unit of gaunts. Taking 6 habberants (stuff WYSIWYG . I doubt anyone will even notice) and bulking out some other stuff, that gives me ~50 pts to play with. Thoughts? About all I can think of is either another 2 habberants, or some combination of habberant/familiar/gaunts/rippers... ...Honestly, trygon has made combat...5 times in the last 9 games? (Technically 3, but 2 were a guaranteed charge that just didn't happen due to game ending early). And one of those was 2 charges in the same game, and another was a charge into a stock infantry squad (hilariously enough, that charge was after taking an unmodified volcano cannon to the face. With 2 rerolls). So...I sort of discount the trygon a lot as an actual source of damage: he's a taxi and takes a bit of heat of the flyrants. Anything else is a bonus. My concerns is if the problems ones play backfield: then the HG (if it's a distant map/LoS is a way away) and haberrants will have difficulties getting to them. The gargs are my only real source of tying up multiples, and they're relying on that DS charge (which has added complication of wrap/screens). *Shrug* Will definitely want to have a play around with it, see if they're valid or not: playing with swarmy so much, I'm not sure how things will work without . I don't have more HG (they're a...still unfinished conversion project from my extra warriors). Or another lascannon (I do have a missile launcher, but...not a fan). The purpose of the IG is two-fold: CP shenanigans with the commander, and drops. I've got up to 9/10 things in reserve: I need stuff on the ground. HWT are cheap and do stuff. The lascannons are only 1 per squad so I can use other stuff as ablatives. And I don't particularly want to put something else in the mortar squad: that way they can actually hide out of LoS. That said, I'm still not 100% over just double brigade or a battalion.
|
|
|
Post by kazetanade on Dec 2, 2017 4:37:33 GMT
I think everyone is pretty unfair to the Trygon. Either the Trygon doesnt make it, or the Flyrant doesnt make it, or the Genestealers doesnt make it. The chance is pretty damn equal between all of them.
Anyway with 50+ points left I'd figure a way to bring in 2 biovores if not more HWT.
5 Habberrants with MfB and Mass Hyp should do work against anything not a Knight (ie, not 24 wounds). There's a potential to gib even Mortarion or Magnus. If only the Primus could take the relic...
|
|
|
Post by No One on Dec 2, 2017 5:23:06 GMT
I think everyone is pretty unfair to the Trygon. Either the Trygon doesnt make it, or the Flyrant doesnt make it, or the Genestealers doesnt make it. The chance is pretty damn equal between all of them. That's not actually the issue I have with them. It's both: A. They're coming in with the devilgants. So...they'll be coming in charge range of wrap that won't be there by the time charge phase comes around. This isn't always an issue: but 90% of the time it is. B. They can't survive: flyrants can to a greater extent. And they also get psychics+shooting when they drop. So aren't quite as reliant on the 8" charge. And stealers have always been HC (with the exception of one time where I got lucky). Don't have, but don't really want either. 1 biovore is basically useless: I don't see 2 being worth it either. I think 3 is probably the minimum level for usefulness. HWT...would maybe be worth? But they haven't exactly been stellar either in the few occasions I've tried them. Honestly, I was thinking about the potential for multi-charges/attack again as well. Also MfB isn't reliable (especially with magus' not able to CA due to drops). He couldn't anyway (or at least not in this list): the WL is IG, so that rules out GSC relics. I can get a nid one, but that requires the strat.
|
|
|
Post by kazetanade on Dec 2, 2017 6:33:53 GMT
Yoy dont need to be WL to grab a relic. Unless written somewhere in book?
I think most of these things are better the more there are. 2 Biovores isnt stellar but it has a place. 3+ will have an impact. As for HWT, I'm pretty sure the more you have the Better it gets.
Concerns about Trygon are valid. If i could I'd try to position it in a way to get a charge on a different unit. To maximize distance travelled if nothing else. Shouting rules are so lenient devgants could come in anywhere.
|
|
|
Post by No One on Dec 2, 2017 6:44:19 GMT
Yoy dont need to be WL to grab a relic. Unless written somewhere in book? This is the same for every other Codex, and so is presumably the case for CA. Codexes can get around it with the 1 CP 'take a relic' strat. But non-Codex CA don't get that. I think there's a minimum cut off for usefulness of biovores: 1 or 2 spore mines aren't blocking stuff, and aren't a good source of MW either. I've been taking one purely for drops/spearhead, and they've almost never done anything. HWT...maybe: those definitely get more useful the more you have (since then they can't just shoot 2 or 3 out). Until it gets to the point where they just eradicate the entire firebase (e.g. cc). Either way, I don't see myself getting any more HWT or biovores in the near future. Oh, definitely - that's why I said 90% . But 18" range is a big limitation on that, and unless it's a bad screen/wrap, there shouldn't be targets for the trygon.
|
|
|
Post by almostmercury on Dec 2, 2017 15:19:38 GMT
I find 3 biovores to be pushing usefulness. 5-6 is the sweet spot.
|
|
|
Post by kazetanade on Dec 5, 2017 21:56:31 GMT
No One I'm starting list building practices again now that the codex is out and mine is coming soon. I recently built an artillery list for a friend which he took to a "narrative" tournament, and came back with decent result (list performance was off the charts, but opponents were really good at dragging time apparently, they only got to play like 1 hr per 2k game and the opponents won due to wonky objective placement rules and deployment area (basically, defenders get deployment in centre of table + free placement of objectives anywhere on the board, and attackers are forced to only deepstrike in from reserves or outflank from table edges and get no objective placements. My friend drew the narrative short stick and was attacker). Since it performed much better than expected, I'm putting on my thinking cap for a null deploy alpha/beta strike concept. So far all I've really pinned down is that i have 3 hybrid Kraken Flyrants as the core. Any thoughts on what to build on/based around/ take care of as considerations for such a list?
|
|
|
Post by No One on Dec 6, 2017 10:49:06 GMT
Since it performed much better than expected, I'm putting on my thinking cap for a null deploy alpha/beta strike concept. So far all I've really pinned down is that i have 3 hybrid Kraken Flyrants as the core. Any thoughts on what to build on/based around/ take care of as considerations for such a list? Hmm...yeah, I can ramble . So, 3 things I'd look to in a DS heavy list: 1. Something to clear wrap/screens (your meta is still tank heavy I think, so...not sure how big a thing this is for you?) 2. Something to tie up stuff (mainly tanks) 3. Something to clean up Also sort of (4). Something for objectives (less off a specific thing, since I find you'll often have the tools to do this, even if you don't have a dedicated unit. But good to bear in mind) 1. Running hybrid flyrants, they can work for 1 (devs) or 3. But I don't think both: otherwise, you're sacrificing a rather expensive model to clear cheap chaff. And if you're only running single dev, that's not even reliable. It may work with all 3 (i.e. it's planned more for a move+charge next turn), but I don't think exposing yourself to unmitigated firepower is helpful. Which leaves the old favourite devilgants . (May be other options that aren't as dedicated, but nothing I'd trust) 2. This one has a lot of options: I'd probably go gargs+AG (and 2 units and/or Behemoth to try and get it reliable), but SL+something or even neophytes+primus (that strat is lovely for allies I think. Doesn't fix the army's issues as a solo force, but really allows that 'scalpel' play as an additional unit or 2). 3. I'm liking the idea of haberrants/primus for clean up, but hybrid flyrants do this very well as well: you just need to give them space and opportunity, which is where 1 and 2 come in. If you can clear a DS spot, and reliably tie things up, you can DS safely and then start mulching next turn, with decent output on the drop from shooting as well. 4. Neophytes with RTTS seem like they'd be good for this (even for EW: come in T3, bounce T4, come back on T5). Something like... Sup command (Kraken) Flyrant Flyrant Flyrant Battalion (Kraken) Neuro Neuro Devilgants Rippers Rippers Rippers Rippers Trygon Biovore Biovore Gargs Battalion (GSC) Primus Primus Haberrants (6) Neos (20) Neos (10) Neos (10) May sort of work?? Very awkward on the drops though. Gargs...possibly superfluous with the neos+Primus? Gives good follow up, which is why they're still there but Kraken instead of Behemoth (that and Synapse). Hopefully something helps your thinking cap .
|
|
|
Post by kazetanade on Dec 6, 2017 12:31:32 GMT
Neophytes are a good point, at the moment I'm leaving GSC on the shelf though. Gotta do the pure list first.
I decided not to work with devilgants this time - reason being giving clearly efficient targets that dont overlap for the myriad gun is just letting the enemy get his effective fire. The list is running on midsized bugs and MCs so if i brought in devilgants they'd just be burnt out by bolters since there's nothing better suited to shoot them at.
The list core is still 3 Flyrants, but they're supportive elements meant to look like the main threat while dropping right now about 18 Warriors and 6 Shockguard into the grill with the 3 Flyrants and 2 Trygon. Taking out some of the anti-infantry (which are not terribly effective but still can hurt midsized as opposed to our T7 and T6 bugs) force too much burden on the anti-tank guns who have to choose between 3W bodies flooding the DZ, Flyrants with 4++, or Trygons.
Still early stages of consideration though. I think having 1 unit that really gets into the middle of everything and bashes their shooting for the turn is really strong so i might change that around with a Swarmlord.
Wrap is not really a thing with my side (the biggest cultist blob I've seen is 20, most wrap are 10-15 models large, usually just deepstrike pushing things.).
Clean up i would love Genestealers but no more points left. Would be interesting to see hoe well warriors perform - 600 points for so many shots and battlecanon stats and BoneSwords look solid. I'm using them precisely to have guns on the drop - Genestealers are great cleanup but are way too subsceptible to failing charges.
Scoring objectives is easy. I score by tabling or round 5/end of game anyway, dedicated objective grabbers are never needed.
|
|
|
Post by No One on Dec 17, 2017 10:59:47 GMT
So, been doing some iterative testing, trying to get a variant of the Nids/GSC/IG concept I'm happy with. List I've been playing against: Battalion (Tallarn) Commander (Grand Strategist) Commander (Aquila) 6xInfantry squads 2xchimera (3 HB) 2xtaurox Valkyrie
Sup Command Primaris Primaris Commander Shadowsword 6 crusaders
Spearhead Primaris 3xLeman russ conqueror (48" battle cannon+stormbolter which gives reroll hits if against same target)
Trial 1: based on kaz's feedback: Battalion (Behemoth) HQ Flyrant (MRC, HVC, TS, AG) HQ Flyrant (MRC, Devs, TS, AG) HQ Neurothrope Elites Hive Guard (6 impaler) Troops Termagants (25 devs) Troops Termagants (20) Troops Rippers (3) HS Trygon (AG, biospike) FA Gargs (20, AG) Supreme Command (GSC) HQ Primus HQ Magus HQ Magus Elite Aberrants (7 hammers) Spearhead (IG) HQ Company Commander (Bolter, WL, Aquila) HS HWT (3xMortar) HS HWT (2xMortar, Lascannon) HS HWT (2xHB, Lascannon)
Went quite well, but that was partly luck: ended up with first turn and had a favourable map. DoW: due to the large drop count, I was able to deploy the HG on one flank out of LoS and just delete that flank (killed a russ T1 with single minded). Devilgants also came in on that flank to get rid of some screens: was actually unnecessary due to the HG, but they ended up tying the tanks up anyway, so it worked. Similarly, gargs had a couple left to tie up a tank or 2. Haberrants came in and whacked the shadowsword to final degradation (7+ due to hyp, and couldn't leave combat due to gaunts ) after it came in and deleted a flyrant. They then went on to damage the remaining tanks on the opposite flank to the HG along with the last flyrant: couldn't quite kill them though due to casualties and dead primus. But the gargs were a bit of an issue: they rely so much on the 8" charge. So, next idea was the neophytes+primus: Battalion (Behemoth) HQ Flyrant (Scy tals, Devs, TS, AG) HQ Neurothrope Elites Hive Guard (6 impaler) Troops Termagants (24 devs) Troops Termagants (17) Troops Rippers (3) HS Trygon (AG, biospike) FA Gargs (19, AG) Supreme Command (GSC) HQ Primus HQ Primus HQ Magus Elite Aberrants (7 hammers) Troops Neophytes Troops Acolytes (5) Troops Acolytes (5) Spearhead (IG) HQ Company Commander (Bolter, WL, Aquila) HS HWT (3xMortar) HS HWT (2xMortar, Lascannon) HS HWT (2xHB, Lascannon)
Thought I might as well go GSC battalion, though the acolytes...couldn't actually CA, which I didn't realise till I started . Didn't go so well: HaA and went 2nd this time. IG was able to play deep in the DZ, with the russes out of range of the HG, and the chimeras etc blocking off a good DS assault. Also wasn't as good LoS blocking on the HG, so I lost 1 before I got to fire them, then lost most of the rest of the squad next turn. Both the neos and the gargs made their charges, but only touched 1 russ (almost got 2, but then I was sneaky with a heroic intervention), and then they died next turn without having really been helpful (though they did get all of the guardsmen out of their boxes to kill them, who then died to devilgants, so...silver linings?) Flyrant didn't do much, having to chase after the valk in my backfield. Aberrants made the charge on the shadowsword, but that overwatch... Basically, just didn't have the damage or follow up. So, list 3: Battalion (Kronos) HQ Flyrant (MRC, Devs, TS, AG) HQ Flyrant (MRC, Devs, TS, AG) HQ Neurothrope Elites Hive Guard (6 impaler) Troops Termagants (17) Troops Rippers (3) Troops Rippers (3) HS Dakkafex (deathspitters, HVC, spore, ES) HS Dakkafex (deathspitters, HVC, spore, ES) HS Biovore Supreme Command (GSC) HQ Primus HQ Primus HQ Magus Elite Aberrants (7 hammers) Troops Neophytes Troops Acolytes (5) Troops Acolytes (5) Spearhead (IG) HQ Company Commander (Bolter, WL, Aquila) HS HWT (3xMortar) HS HWT (2xMortar, Lascannon) HS HWT (2xHB, Lascannon)
Kronos instead of Behemoth, subbing in 2 dakkafexes and another flyrant instead of the devilgant drop: with the mortars and flyrant devs, I don't think it's as needed, especially since it's not as reliant on screen breaking in a single phase. I do miss the devilgants, but the trygon...the whole drop is just too expensive in this context I feel, especially since single minded is going to go to the HG most of the time. Game 3 was intentionally similar to game 2 (HaA, nids going 2nd). And...went way better. The HG still suffered for range with HaA, but I was able to keep things going and grind the IG vehicles down with the HG/fex, while the flyrants dealt with the infantry. Aberrants...were a bit overkill, since I brought them in before the shadowsword this time: they destroyed a transport and surrounded the occupants to stay safe from shooting (and then overkilled the WL next turn, since I wasn't confident with overwatch to charge a TL russ). But 5 or 6 would've done that fine as well, so... Neophytes failed a 3" charge T2, which sucked, but I was still able to pressure with the haberrants/primus/flyrant, while the HG and fexes killed the shadowsword, then got into better positions. Acolytes were really lucky, killing both primaris (the last was in the valk with the crusaders) with a 5 (6) and a straight 6 to open up the DZ more. So, much better with the output: considering dumping an aberrant or 2 (since the overkill is a severe issue: 7 works into the shadowsword, but not into a spread deployment. Of course, I play spread because I'm playing to counter myself. Other people...may not do that, at which point 3 and 3 into 2 vehicles, 1 for coherency/overwatch and adrenaline surge could be viable. Maybe), and possibly the biovore (only there for Kronos spores), but no idea what for. Overall thoughts: hive guard were great, but suffered a bit from the 36" range, especially on hammer and anvil. Also had some issues with combat: ended up in combat in 2/3 games for at least one turn, since the terms weren't able to live and wrap. Still great with single minded: a bit worried how they'd go on the tabletop though. Was playing on Vassal, so40 mm bases instead of 50 mm and there's a lot more abstraction around LoS. Not really anything I could do about that, except going Jorm shockguard. The amount of CP is just ridiculous: last game, I had - at least 3+ single minded, overrun, 2 CA, Kronos, 2 save rerolls, 1+ psychic reroll, 1+ shooting reroll, implant attack, possibly an adrenaline surge, probably a charge reroll...so, somewhere between 16-20 CP. The dakkafexes provide some reasonably reliable damage (and were actually incredibly tanky late game, when there's less firepower around), while the flyrants provide relatively durable threat and high, but unreliable output. Haberrants for something I really don't like, and neos to prevent shooting. Overall, pretty happy with it, though I need a bit more practice about how best to play it (i.e. when to bring things on, when to move up with the fexes: they stayed out of LoS T1/T2, even though I brought the neos on to tie things up T2). The related idea I had was for purestrains instead of the haberrants and neos, but...I'm pretty ambivalent on it. Stealers just don't have the anti-tank output...yet I'd pretty much have to be using them against tanks to tie them up in a similar role to the neos. Eh. Completely unrelated, also wanting to try out Kraken footslogging stealers, but I think I prefer this for the moment, at least as a theory crafting exercise. I think footslogging stealers needs a tad more than I have access to, though 1 for overrun and 1 for swarmy does have its own appeal. Mal for T1, 5 habberrants, HG, swarmy and 2 dakkafexes...almost fits...eh..
|
|
|
Post by almostmercury on Dec 17, 2017 15:54:47 GMT
Swarmlord and Kraken gets two stealer units there in one turn. But how did you use 16+ CP? I count 8. Oh wait, you have the guard ability.
Have you considered using a tyrannocyte with 20 devilgaunts instead of a trygon? I think I’m remembering that you can’t get one, which is probably why...
|
|