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Post by tomb on May 13, 2022 16:24:06 GMT
Given the changes to Encircle the Prey and the Maleceptor, I'm thinking about making a new Kraken list to focus more on Raveners, Zoanthropes and Pyrovores. Amazing how we're going back to Kraken in yet another edition. Speed wins games. So true on both accounts. I look forwards to seeing your Kraken list. |
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Post by dkng on May 13, 2022 19:07:21 GMT
Given the changes to Encircle the Prey and the Maleceptor, I'm thinking about making a new Kraken list to focus more on Raveners, Zoanthropes and Pyrovores. Amazing how we're going back to Kraken in yet another edition. Speed wins games. Also having -1 AP baked in to help combat AoC, so speed and offense. Though Lurk fleets are just behind Kraken, the obvious impending pts adjustment to Ravs, Wars, and Pyros will probably even all the fleets up. That’s the point, right? Pick your flavour and build around it, not going for the same fleet 99% of the time. Obviously some fleets will be superior, but I really hope the gap will narrow. |
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Post by Master Chief on May 14, 2022 11:47:17 GMT
I think Leviathan and Kraken will always be superior to the other hive fleets.
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Post by zimko on May 16, 2022 15:39:46 GMT
The Kraken lists are neat but it doesn't really fit my playstyle atm. It feels like old Genestealer lists in 8th where you launch them at your opponent and hope they stick. If they run into something they can't break then oh well, hope you build up enough points to win!
I enjoy playing a defensive, reactionary list. Leviathan plays more into that than Kraken. Also, I have a lot more games with Leviathan so I'm going to continue refining this list for now.
Battalion: Levaithan
HQ
Neurothrope: Warlord, Synaptic Tendrils, Resonance Barb - 100
Powers: Catalyst, Onslaught, Paroxysm
Flyrant: Reaper, Aglands, Adaptive Biology - 205
Powers: Catalyst, Psychic Scream
No Force Org
3 Zoanthropes - 150
Powers: Neuroparasite
3 Tyrant Guard: LW/BS - 120
Troops
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS - 140
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS - 140
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS - 140
10 Gargoyles - 80
Elites
Deathleaper: Alien Cunning - 95
Maleceptor - 170
Powers: Neuroparasite, Psychic Scream
3 Pyrovores - 90
3 Pyrovores - 90
3 Venomthropes - 105
Flyers
Harpy: HVC, Dermic Symbiosis - 195
Harpy: HVC, Synaptic Enhancement - 180
2000 pts and 9 CP
With the change to Encircle the Prey, I don't like the Shardgullet Flyrant anymore. I used Encircle the Prey heavily on this Flyrant to snipe hidden targets and leap back into safety. Now, his movement doesn't count for much so it wouldn't make sense to use a Flyrant for Shardgullet anymore. I could take a walking tyrant instead but I'd rather save the CP. Due to losing Shardgullet, I'm throwing in the 2nd harpy again and upgrading both Harpies for maximum annoyance. Some might say that the Encircle the Prey nerf also nerfed Harpies but I didn't use it much on Harpies. I'd rather my opponent expend resources on the Harpies than the rest of my army. Also, in the mirror match, I think Harpies are excellent. Their damage 4 weapons are quite efficient at killing the strong, point efficient units that are common right now (Raveners, Zoanthropes and Warriors).
The Maleceptor is still a strong model so it's staying in. The change now means I can use the extra cast on the Neurothrope for all of his important powers.
I loved the 20 gargoyles I took last time. At first, I had 20 gargoyles in this list and 3 pyrovores. But then I considered why I need the second unit of gargoyles... and really all I need that unit for is to screen Warriors. The first unit is useful for grabbing an early midfield objective for Stranglehold but I only need that for turn 1. After that, the Pyrovores and Warriors can move onto those objectives. So for almost the same price, I replaced 10 gargoyles with 3 pyrovores. 3 Pyrovores can screen a unit of Warriors and also be a significant threat.
Deathleaper is back on the menu. With Encircle the Prey gone, the Lictor version of the stratagem is now the only one of it's kind. Where before, Parasite or a Flyrant with Alien Cunning could run forward, steal an objective, and then leap out... it no longer can. Deathleaper however can still do this. Granted, he is 6" slower, but he's also much more resilient and lethal than the Parasite.
Despite only having 1 Flyrant, Tyrant Guard are still in. It's just too hard to hide a Flyrant. But Tyrant Guard are far from useless outside of protecting a Flyrant. They are decent action monkeys, screeners and objective sitters.
Another thing I need to remember more is the Levi strat for +1 AP in combat. With 9 starting CP instead of 6, I should be able to use offensive stratagems more often and this one is an important one for certain matchups. The change to a single Battalion should also help with the new CA that will nerf starting CP.
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Post by zimko on May 19, 2022 16:33:45 GMT
Alternatively, I'm looking at dropping the 180 pt Harpy with Synapse to add 2 more units of Gargoyles (for a total of 3x10) and give Venom Cannons to the 3 units of Warriors and give Toxin Sacs to the Flyrant. This would improved objective control for primary and secondaries and remove my temptation to use Warp Shielding on turn 1 just to try and save a Harpy.
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Post by Master Chief on May 21, 2022 0:05:12 GMT
Alternatively, I'm looking at dropping the 180 pt Harpy with Synapse to add 2 more units of Gargoyles (for a total of 3x10) and give Venom Cannons to the 3 units of Warriors and give Toxin Sacs to the Flyrant. This would improved objective control for primary and secondaries and remove my temptation to use Warp Shielding on turn 1 just to try and save a Harpy. Have you considered to play 2 Maleceptors? Even now, after the nerf. In 2 they are doing basically what one was doing before, and most importantly they are damn tough to kill. |
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Post by zimko on May 26, 2022 13:39:24 GMT
I don't like the idea of a second Maleceptor. I'd take more Zoanthropes if I wanted more mortal wound output. Or maybe even 3 Biovores.
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Post by zimko on May 26, 2022 14:31:21 GMT
I have several variations of the Leviathan list that I'm brainstorming for a GT next month. All the models are available to me, some need assembly and painting still but it's all doable by the GT.
Harpy List
Battalion: Levaithan
HQ
Neurothrope: Warlord, Synaptic Tendrils, Resonance Barb - 100
Powers: Catalyst, Onslaught, Paroxysm
Flyrant: Reaper, Aglands, Adaptive Biology - 205
Powers: Catalyst, Psychic Scream
No Force Org
3 Zoanthropes - 150
Powers: Neuroparasite
3 Tyrant Guard: LW/BS - 120
Troops
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS - 140
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS - 140
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS - 140
10 Gargoyles - 80
Elites
Deathleaper: Alien Cunning - 95
Maleceptor - 170
Powers: Neuroparasite, Psychic Scream
3 Pyrovores - 90
3 Pyrovores - 90
3 Venomthropes - 105
Flyers
Harpy: HVC, Dermic Symbiosis - 195
Harpy: HVC, Synaptic Enhancement - 180
Pyrovore List
Battalion: Levaithan
HQ
Neurothrope: Warlord, Synaptic Tendrils, Resonance Barb - 100
Powers: Catalyst, Onslaught, Paroxysm
Flyrant: Reaper, Aglands, Tsacs, Adaptive Biology - 210
Powers: Catalyst, Psychic Scream
No Force Org
3 Zoanthropes - 150
Powers: Neuroparasite
3 Tyrant Guard: LW/BS - 120
Troops
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS - 140
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS - 140
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS - 140
10 Gargoyles - 80
10 Gargoyles - 80
Elites
Maleceptor - 170
Powers: Neuroparasite, Psychic Scream
3 Pyrovores - 90
3 Pyrovores - 90
3 Pyrovores - 90
3 Venomthropes - 105
Fast Attack
Parasite: Gestation Sac, Alien Cunning - 80
Flyers
Harpy: HVC, Dermic Symbiosis - 195
Warrior List
Battalion: Levaithan
HQ
Neurothrope: Warlord, Synaptic Tendrils, Resonance Barb - 100
Powers: Catalyst, Onslaught, Paroxysm
Flyrant: Reaper, Aglands, Tsacs, Adaptive Biology - 210
Powers: Catalyst, Psychic Scream
No Force Org
3 Zoanthropes - 150
Powers: Neuroparasite
3 Tyrant Guard: LW/BS - 120
Troops
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS, Venom Cannon - 145
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS, Venom Cannon - 145
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS, Venom Cannon - 145
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS, Venom Cannon - 145
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS, Venom Cannon - 145
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS, Venom Cannon - 145
Elites
Deathleaper: Alien Cunning - 95
Maleceptor - 170
Powers: Neuroparasite, Psychic Scream
3 Pyrovores - 90
3 Pyrovores - 90
3 Venomthropes - 105
Gargoyle/Harpy List
Battalion: Levaithan
HQ
Neurothrope: Warlord, Synaptic Tendrils, Resonance Barb - 100
Powers: Catalyst, Onslaught, Paroxysm
Flyrant: Reaper, Aglands, Tsacs, Adaptive Biology - 210
Powers: Catalyst, Psychic Scream
No Force Org
3 Zoanthropes - 150
Powers: Neuroparasite
3 Tyrant Guard: LW/BS - 120
Troops
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS, Venom Cannon - 145
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS, Venom Cannon - 145
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS, Venom Cannon - 145
10 Gargoyles - 80
10 Gargoyles - 80
10 Gargoyles - 80
Elites
Deathleaper: Alien Cunning - 95
Maleceptor - 170
Powers: Neuroparasite, Psychic Scream
3 Pyrovores - 90
3 Pyrovores - 90
3 Venomthropes - 105
Flyers
Harpy: HVC, Dermic Symbiosis - 195
Gargoyle/Pyro/Gullet List
Battalion: Levaithan
HQ
Neurothrope: Warlord, Synaptic Tendrils, Resonance Barb - 100
Powers: Catalyst, Onslaught, Paroxysm
Flyrant: Reaper, Aglands, Adaptive Biology - 205
Powers: The Horror, Psychic Scream
No Force Org
3 Zoanthropes - 150
Powers: Neuroparasite
3 Tyrant Guard: LW/BS - 120
Troops
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS, Venom Cannon, Fhooks - 150
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS, Venom Cannon, Fhooks - 150
5 Warriors: Aglands, BS/DS, Venom Cannon, Fhooks - 150
10 Gargoyles - 80
10 Gargoyles - 80
Elites
Maleceptor - 170
Powers: Neuroparasite, Psychic Scream
3 Pyrovores - 90
3 Pyrovores - 90
3 Pyrovores - 90
3 Venomthropes - 105
Patrol: Leviathan
HQ
Hive Tyrant: HVC, BS/LW, Aglands, Shardgullet, Perfectly Adapted - 190
Powers: Catalyst, Psychic Scream
Troops
10 Gargoyles - 80
Currently I'm leaning towards the last list. It doesn't have a Harpy but it has the full set of 30 gargoyles, 9 pyrovores and upgraded 3x5 Warriors. It's also my first go at a walking hive tyrant.
All of the lists have similar core units: Neurothrope, Reaper Flyrant, 3x5 Warriors, Zoan/Mal/Venoms/Tyrant Guard. The variation comes in the Pyrovores, Gargoyles, Harpies and Alien Cunning units (Deathleaper and Parasite). The last list is the only list without Alien Cunning, but with 30 gargoyles I figured it may not be needed.
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Post by PumpkinHead on May 26, 2022 16:26:09 GMT
I like your last list the most. I have been working on something similar, but now that lictors are the only ones that can dip out at the end of the turn, I don't want to leave home without the DeathLeaper. I find when I don't have the harpies I tend to play less aggressive, and I am trying to learn to play more passively. What is your plan to deal with knights? 3d3 VC shots and shardgullet seem light. My meta has them popping up all over the place. Thousand suns with knights is my current bane of existance.
I am also jealous you have 9 pyrovores. I have 3 and have 3 more coming in the mail, but man they are hard to get a hold of.
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Post by zimko on May 26, 2022 16:55:45 GMT
I like your last list the most. I have been working on something similar, but now that lictors are the only ones that can dip out at the end of the turn, I don't want to leave home without the DeathLeaper. I find when I don't have the harpies I tend to play less aggressive, and I am trying to learn to play more passively. What is your plan to deal with knights? 3d3 VC shots and shardgullet seem light. My meta has them popping up all over the place. Thousand suns with knights is my current bane of existance. I am also jealous you have 9 pyrovores. I have 3 and have 3 more coming in the mail, but man they are hard to get a hold of. I 3d printed 7 pyrovores to fill out my 9. I have no shame and I feel it's justified since I also couldn't find them. I feel ya on the Deathleaper. A lot of these lists include him. But when I look at him vs 3 more pyrovores... I want the pyrovores. Is the Knight codex out? I don't think it's going to be out by the GT. My plan for knights is to mostly kill them in the psychic phase and melee. Use terrain to my advantage to mitigate their damage output. Move block with Gargoyles as much as I can. Harpies I feel like are going to become a liability. More and more people are prepared for them and have a plan to kill them. |
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Post by PumpkinHead on May 26, 2022 18:03:17 GMT
I 3d printed 7 pyrovores to fill out my 9. I have no shame and I feel it's justified since I also couldn't find them. I feel ya on the Deathleaper. A lot of these lists include him. But when I look at him vs 3 more pyrovores... I want the pyrovores. Is the Knight codex out? I don't think it's going to be out by the GT. My plan for knights is to mostly kill them in the psychic phase and melee. Use terrain to my advantage to mitigate their damage output. Move block with Gargoyles as much as I can. Harpies I feel like are going to become a liability. More and more people are prepared for them and have a plan to kill them. 3d printing would make acquiring models easier. Yes the Imperial Knight codex is out and I think the Chaos Knights are up for order on Saturday. But, the books are out there and being in the meta I live in, people are already rocking the new codex getting reps in. The downside to knights becoming a thing, is that lists designed to kill knights also kill big bugs. 1 harpy seems to be a decent distraction Fex, but at around 180 points kind of hurts to lose. Though starting it off the table seems like a viable option to make sure you get at least one round of shooting. |
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Post by zimko on May 26, 2022 18:13:18 GMT
Oh look at that. I guess the knight codex is out. I've been out of it for a few weeks.
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Post by N.I.B. on May 26, 2022 20:45:05 GMT
Some food for thought. I like Jesper's GT winning post-nerfs list with 4x5 Warriors and the plan for secondaries.
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Post by Master Chief on May 28, 2022 1:01:15 GMT
Starting a harpy off the table will take you 2 CPs, and the army is eating CPs very very fast.
To be honest I'd rather keep it on the table. -1 to hit, transhuman 4+ and 4++, is quite tough to kill anyway.
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Post by zimko on Jun 21, 2022 14:56:48 GMT
I took a triple Tyrant list to a Major this past weekend and went 5 and 1. Lost to Harlequins, defeated Harlequins, Aeldari, Chaos Knights, Space Wolves and Tyranids (Levi).
Battalion:
- Reaper Flyrant with 5+++
- Neurothrope with Synaptic Tendrils
- 5 Warriors with VC, Deathspitters, Boneswords, Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks
- 5 Warriors with VC, Deathspitters, Boneswords, Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks
- 5 Warriors with VC, Deathspitters, Boneswords, Adrenal Glands
- 5 Warriors with VC, Deathspitters, Boneswords, Adrenal Glands
- Maleceptor
- 3 Venomthropes
- 3 Zoanthropes
- 3 Tyrant Guard
Patrol
- MawClaws Flyrant
- 10 Gargoyles
Patrol
- Shardgullet Walkrant with Levi WLT
- 10 Gargoyles
It played great, was a lot of fun. But next week the list will be completely unplayable because it currently requires 8 CP pregame to build. And after the changes, it would require 10 CP, and obviously we will only have 6 CP to build with. In addition to that, Tyrants are rumored to cost 20 points more, and Warriors 5 points more, and Maleceptor 50 points more.
In light of all those changes, here's a new potential list:
Battalion:
- Reaper Flyrant with 5+++ (2 CP)
- Neurothrope with Synaptic Tendrils (1 CP)
- 5 Warriors with VC, Deathspitters, Boneswords, Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks
- 5 Warriors with VC, Deathspitters, Boneswords, Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks
- 5 Warriors with VC, Deathspitters, Boneswords, Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks
- 5 Warriors with VC, Deathspitters, Boneswords, Adrenal Glands
- 10 Gargoyles
- 3 Venomthropes
- 3 Tyrant Guard
- 3 Zoans
- Maleceptor
Patrol (2 CP)
- Mawclaws Flyrant (1 CP)
- 10 Gargoyles
So with the points changes, this should be exactly 2000. It's essentially the same as my previous list but without the Shardgullet Walkrant and 2nd Patrol (thus saving me 4 CP thus costing 6 CP total to make). I'll start with 0 CP but I think that'll be normal. Yeah Maleceptor is +50 points now... but I still think he's worth it. In every game I use him, despite the nerf, I never feel like 'man I wish I had something else'. As long as you get the Neuro buff on him, he still reliably dishes out 9 to 12 mortals, and he's very resilient.
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