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Post by zimko on Mar 17, 2022 14:58:30 GMT
This is a theoretical list based on the codex leak (which you can find here: wahapedia.ru/wh40k9ed/factions/tyranids/)Leviathan Battalion
HQTrygon Prime: Adrenal Glands, (relic -1cp)The Passenger(+2 to charge), Adaptive Biology (5+++ WLT -1cp) - 190 Flyrant: HVC (relic), Warlord:Direct Guidance (Core +1 to hit) - 205 Neurothrope: 100 Troops
8 Warriors: 8 Deathspitters, 8 Duel-BS, Flesh hooks - 205 8 Warriors: 8 Deathspitters, 8 Duel-BS, Flesh hooks - 205 8 Warriors: 8 Deathspitters, 8 Duel-BS, Flesh hooks - 205 ElitesMaleceptor - 170 Deathleaper: (WLT -1cp) Alien Cunning - 95 Fast Attack
Mawloc: Synaptic Enhancement - 135 Parasite: 80 Heavy Support
Exocrine - 170 No Force Org
Tyranid Prime: Deathspitter, BS, fleshhooks - 90 3 Zoanthropes - 150 (it's a little weird that the Neuro makes Zoanthropes not take up a slot, I thought it would be the other way around) 2000 pts: 9 cp (spent 2 for warlord traits and 1 for a relic) Every model in this army is synapse except the Deathleaper and Exocrine. This means that all those models get full transhuman from Leviathan. They also all benefit from synaptic links while they are activated, no matter where they are on the board (mawloc and trygon in particular). Ideally the Zoanthrope invul gets popped on turn 2 when the big snakes arrive, but if I need that link on turn 1, then on turn 2 the Flyrant can throw himself towards the middle in order to create a synaptic link between the arriving Trygon and the rest of the fleet. Then the neurothrope in the back can cast the Levi psychic power to give the Trygon a 4++. Then for 1 CP the Flyrant can safely hop back into deep strike to arrive again next turn. I lose nothing by doing this. The stratagem to return to reserves happens at the end of the turn, so the Flyrant gets to shoot, cast powers, and even maybe score Engage before he disappears. Then arrives on my next turn to continue to shoot and cast powers. Interestingly, the Neurothrope or Zoanthropes can also use this stratagem to disappear then reappear next turn. So can the parasite and big snakes. So there's a lot of options there. I thought about giving voracious ammunition to the Exocrine, but as is he is 9 power level, which means it costs only 1 cp to put him in reserves. If I give him any of the upgrades then his power level increases and it will cost 2 cp. So I'd rather make sure I have the 1 cp option of arriving from reinforcements. The Deathleaper I think is amazingly good now. His warlord trait gives him Objective Secured and counts as 5 models. With Leviathan, one of the adaptive traits that I can take is +1 to charge which I think may be the one I take most games except against specific armies. So the Deathleaper has a decent shot at making his charge on arrival. But he's also quite durable if he arrives somewhere in cover and out of LOS. I just think he's a great backfield disruption unit for a cheap price. The parasite is really only here because it's cheap, has synapse, is fast and can remove objective secured reliably for 1 cp. If it manages to kill anything or spawn a ripper then I consider that to be a bonus. The Neurothrope, Zoanthropes and Maleceptor form a amazing anchor of mortal wound output. Between them and the flyrant, this army has 7 casts and 5 denies before spending cp. The Warriors have a very efficient profile for their price. With Levi, they have full transhuman. Zoanthropes can give them 5++. 1 CP can reduce their damage taken by 1. And with the Flyrant and Prime's buffs, one unit can get +1 to hit, reroll 1s to hit and reroll 1s to wound for both shooting and melee. The Mawloc and Trygon I think are hilarious and I look forward to trying them out. |
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Mar 18, 2022 3:06:00 GMT
8-man warriors will take 2 CP for -1 Dmg, 1 CP is for 5 or less. Why Boneswords w/o AG on warriors? S8 would be great on them since they get all the rr links.
Which HVC relic? 5D one looks cool on paper, but avgs 1 more damage vs T7/8 over plain HVC and is outdone by Pathogenesis vs everything except T5/6 w/ no ++ or 5W models.
Neuro w/ second link use WLT looks to be very good, I think it does more than +1 to-hit. Alternatively, the tyrant with the obj sec trait and dirgeheart relic looks like a great objective scorer.
I like the idea behind passenger on Trygon prime, but I think that you still are spending the CP for 3d6 charge and another in the pocket for the rr. At that point I think free rr wounds from maw claws might be better than taking an 8” charge to 6” (based on using the swapped adaptive trait). If you think you really need the 2”, Deathleaper can still help there.
Not the biggest fan of giving up 16 total and likely 10+ vp to assasinate.
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Post by zimko on Mar 18, 2022 3:25:27 GMT
8-man warriors will take 2 CP for -1 Dmg, 1 CP is for 5 or less. Why Boneswords w/o AG on warriors? S8 would be great on them since they get all the rr links. Which HVC relic? 5D one looks cool on paper, but avgs 1 more damage vs T7/8 over plain HVC and is outdone by Pathogenesis vs everything except T5/6 w/ no ++ or 5W models. Neuro w/ second link use WLT looks to be very good, I think it does more than +1 to-hit. Alternatively, the tyrant with the obj sec trait and dirgeheart relic looks like a great objective scorer. I like the idea behind passenger on Trygon prime, but I think that you still are spending the CP for 3d6 charge and another in the pocket for the rr. At that point I think free rr wounds from maw claws might be better than taking an 8” charge to 6” (based on using the swapped adaptive trait). If you think you really need the 2”, Deathleaper can still help there. Custodes are a big fish that I play against a lot, so I want to keep my adaptive trait open to ignoring tanglefoot (with a side benefit of ignoring difficult terrain). This means 9" charges without the +1 charge trait. That's why I'd rather stick with Passenger. The Trygon Prime is quite an investment to bank on and I don't want him failing his charge. I suppose Custode fighting is also a reason why I like the Shardgullet. 5 damage is a nice sweetspot for killing bikes. If the large warrior units don't work then I may switch this guy out for a more aggressive melee option with the objective scoring trait and relic. But for now I want to see how a more standoff-ish flyrant does with a big gun. Tau and Custodes are the armies to beat right now so I'm trying to bring the tools to fight them while still being TAC. The Neuro WLT is an idea I like, I'll consider it after some playtesting. The warriors are in larger units to try and take advantage of the CORE buffs that the Flyrant can throw out there but I might switch to more MSU if they just don't pull their weight. Then I'd definitely change out the +1 to hit WLT. The new Aeldari is also an unknown variable atm so I don't have much of a plan there without some experience fighting them. Also while we're talking about meta, harlies are becoming a thing and from what I hear they turn off rerolls. Custodes also like to do that. So that's another point against Pathogenesis. Thanks for the input. |
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Post by zimko on Mar 18, 2022 3:32:26 GMT
As for Adrenal Glands. I could reconfigure the Warriors like this:
Troops
9 Warriors: 9 Deathspitters, 9 Duel-BS, Flesh hooks, AGs - 245
9 Warriors: 9 Deathspitters, 9 Duel-BS, Flesh hooks, AGs - 245
5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 5 Duel-BS, Flesh hooks - 130
(remove the flesh hooks from the prime for the other 5 points)
This gives me 2 frontline units with strength 8 melee and extra movement to take advantage of the CORE buffs. Then the 5 man unit can babysit the Exocrine while holding a backfield objective or screening out deep strikers. I think I like that better than 8/8/8 with no glands.
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Mar 18, 2022 3:54:04 GMT
I’m planning on the psychic prowess to deal with custodes, we really don’t have any effective melee or shooting into them without specific fleet traits/powers. Gorgon GS/Horms look to be a nightmare for them though, and having Lurk really helps the matchup by choosing Monster Obj Sec. Custodes always has 3-man infantry, so any horned chitin monster can likely deny primary by killing just 1 model between MWs on charge and the fight phase. Though my plan is to use a Harpy to shoot off 1 model and then charge, and should work without CP spent.
Most of my thought process has been off the Levi train though, Lurk has so many good traits that I don’t think the trans will be better than just a -1 to wound enough to be worth losing Lurk (especially since Monsters have a Transhuman strat, which becomes much more effective when Monsters have Obj Sec).
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Post by zimko on Mar 18, 2022 13:28:47 GMT
I agree on Lurk. At first I simply threw out any hive fleet that didn't have Lurk but then I realized just how cheap Warriors are and how expensive Horms/GS are and decided to focus more on Warriors, which Levi is really good for. And then I realized how powerful the psychic power for Levi is. We'll see how it plays out.
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Post by hiveoverall on Mar 20, 2022 18:25:22 GMT
Interesting stuff guys thanks ! Zimko why the mawloc? He just doesn’t seem that great to me at first glance
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Post by zimko on Mar 21, 2022 4:02:57 GMT
Interesting stuff guys thanks ! Zimko why the mawloc? He just doesn’t seem that great to me at first glance Well I had my first test game against a Harlies list. I didn't take this exact list but I did take a Levi Mawloc with synaptic enhancement + deathleaper. Here's my thoughts on it... The marker that you place for Terror in the Deep is intimidating. It didn't change much about his positioning because Harliquins are so fast anyway that he could easily avoid it, but what it did do was allow me to place the Mawloc on an objective and near a target for the Deathleaper. The Deathleaper then arrived and made his charge. Since the Mawloc is synapse, it granted my synaptic link to the Deathleaper giving him 6s to explode in melee (warrior link). This allowed him to easily kill his target, take the objective (with Alien Cunning) and also be granted baby-transhuman for the next turn until the Mawloc died. The Mawloc also gave him character protection. And being a Synapse creature in Leviathan meant the Mawloc had full transhuman, making him annoying to remove. Then on my opponent's turn, being a new battleround, I activated the Zoanthrope link to give him a 4++. This forced my opponent to dedicat so many resources into killing the Mawloc and Deathleaper that he had nothing else he could do to the rest of my army that turn. So the Mawloc himself isn't necessarily a huge factor against every list, but his synergy with Synaptic Links, Deathleaper and Leviathan I think makes him worth the investment. Plus I also took Behind Enemy Lines which scored me max points that game thanks in large part to these 2. It forced my opponent to spend resources going backwards, which allowed the rest of my army to continue to advance. I do believe that his Terror From the Deep ability will really shine against slower lists but even against a fast list like Harlies he still did a good job of disruption. Anyway, I have more test games I want to do (these are in person, I don't play TTS) so my list is constantly changing. This is the next iteration: Leviathan Battalion
HQFlyrant: Shardgullet, Warlord:Perfectly Adapted - 205 Powers: The Horror, Psychic Scream Neurothrope: (relic -1cp) Resbarb - 100 Powers: Hive Nexus, Onslaught, Catalyst Troops
5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 5 Duel-BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 5 Duel-BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 5 Duel-BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 5 Duel-BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 ElitesMaleceptor - 170 Powers: Catalyst, Neuroparasite Deathleaper: (WLT -1cp) Alien Cunning - 95 Fast AttackMawloc: Synaptic Enhancement - 135 Heavy SupportExocrine: Voracious Ammunition - 185 No Force Org3 Zoanthropes - 150 Power: Neuroparasite 3 Tyrant Guard: Bonecleaver/whip - 120 Leviathan Patrol (-2 cp)
HQ
Flyrant: (relic -1cp) Reaper of Obliterax, (WLT -1cp) Adaptive Biology, Adrenal Glands - 205 Powers: Psychic Scream, Paroxysm Troops3 Warriors: 3 Deathspitters, 3 Duel-BS - 75 2000 pts: 6 cp (-2 patrol, -2 relics, -2 wlt) I think the most shocking thing so far is how little I care about stratagems now. Our last codex survived on stratagems and now they're just not needed. There's a select few good ones and they're cheap. So I'm going all in on relics and warlord traits because they're good. Warriors are great in levi. Maleceptor/Zoans/Neuro form an awesome deathball of mortals. Mawloc and Deathleaper make a nice duo for disrupting the backfield and forcing your opponent to move places they don't want. I tried the Trygon Prime and was disappointed. It turns out that with the abundance of terrain nowadays, it's really hard to find a place for a model of his size to arrive and get a good charge on something. And even when he did make it to melee, his damage was not what I had hoped. I need a better beat stick... enter the Reaper Flyrant. I'm also including 3 Tyrant Guard to protect both Flyrants on turn 1 and 2, allowing me to set up the Reaper Flyrant for a good charge without fear of getting shot, as long as the Tyrant Guard have somewhere to hide. |
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Post by dkng on Mar 21, 2022 7:51:00 GMT
Why Zoans and HG are No Force Org?
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Post by kubimaniac on Mar 21, 2022 10:07:57 GMT
Why Zoans and HG are No Force Org? They take no slot if you bring a Neurothrope or a Hive Tyrant respectively |
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Post by dkng on Mar 21, 2022 13:08:08 GMT
Why Zoans and HG are No Force Org? They take no slot if you bring a Neurothrope or a Hive Tyrant respectively They CAN be included without taking up a slot but is there a point in writing the list like the one above? Even more so when those units can fit in the standard FOC normally. |
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Mar 21, 2022 14:08:56 GMT
They CAN be included without taking up a slot but is there a point in writing the list like the one above? Even more so when those units can fit in the standard FOC normally. Yes actually, there is. Zimko has the ability to take the 2nd Tyrant in an Auxiliary detachment and free up 75 pts. Taking AG off the other warriors would allow another 5x Warriors with DBS & DS. |
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Post by dkng on Mar 21, 2022 14:23:06 GMT
They CAN be included without taking up a slot but is there a point in writing the list like the one above? Even more so when those units can fit in the standard FOC normally. Yes actually, there is. Zimko has the ability to take the 2nd Tyrant in an Auxiliary detachment and free up 75 pts. Taking AG off the other warriors would allow another 5x Warriors with DBS & DS. You missed my point. I asked why the list looks like this: Leviathan Battalion HQ Flyrant: Shardgullet, Warlord:Perfectly Adapted - 205 Powers: The Horror, Psychic Scream Neurothrope: (relic -1cp) Resbarb - 100 Powers: Hive Nexus, Onslaught, Catalyst Troops 5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 5 Duel-BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 5 Duel-BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 5 Duel-BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 5 Duel-BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 Elites Maleceptor - 170 Powers: Catalyst, Neuroparasite Deathleaper: (WLT -1cp) Alien Cunning - 95 Fast Attack Mawloc: Synaptic Enhancement - 135 Heavy Support Exocrine: Voracious Ammunition - 185 No Force Org
3 Zoanthropes - 150
Power: Neuroparasite
3 Tyrant Guard: Bonecleaver/whip - 120Leviathan Patrol (-2 cp) HQ Flyrant: (relic -1cp) Reaper of Obliterax, (WLT -1cp) Adaptive Biology, Adrenal Glands - 205 Powers: Psychic Scream, Paroxysm Troops 3 Warriors: 3 Deathspitters, 3 Duel-BS - 75 2000 pts: 6 cp (-2 patrol, -2 relics, -2 wlt) And not like this: Leviathan Battalion HQ Flyrant: Shardgullet, Warlord:Perfectly Adapted - 205 Powers: The Horror, Psychic Scream Neurothrope: (relic -1cp) Resbarb - 100 Powers: Hive Nexus, Onslaught, Catalyst Troops 5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 5 Duel-BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 5 Duel-BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 5 Duel-BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 5 Duel-BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 Elites 3 Tyrant Guard: Bonecleaver/whip - 120
3 Zoanthropes - 150
Maleceptor - 170 Powers: Catalyst, Neuroparasite Deathleaper: (WLT -1cp) Alien Cunning - 95 Fast Attack Mawloc: Synaptic Enhancement - 135 Heavy Support Exocrine: Voracious Ammunition - 185 3 Zoanthropes - 150 Power: Neuroparasite 3 Tyrant Guard: Bonecleaver/whip - 120 Leviathan Patrol (-2 cp) HQ Flyrant: (relic -1cp) Reaper of Obliterax, (WLT -1cp) Adaptive Biology, Adrenal Glands - 205 Powers: Psychic Scream, Paroxysm Troops 3 Warriors: 3 Deathspitters, 3 Duel-BS - 75 2000 pts: 6 cp (-2 patrol, -2 relics, -2 wlt) |
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Post by zimko on Mar 21, 2022 14:42:33 GMT
It doesn't have to look like that, but since I'm constantly changing my list for test games I like to know when a unit is taking up a slot or not.
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Post by zimko on Mar 21, 2022 14:44:54 GMT
They CAN be included without taking up a slot but is there a point in writing the list like the one above? Even more so when those units can fit in the standard FOC normally. Yes actually, there is. Zimko has the ability to take the 2nd Tyrant in an Auxiliary detachment and free up 75 pts. Taking AG off the other warriors would allow another 5x Warriors with DBS & DS. I found in my last game that I didn't have a good unit to hold the back objective. The Exocrine was doing it but I needed him to move a lot to get angles for shots. So in the end I just left the objective. Having a cheap unit of warriors to sit back there and hold it for me would free up the Exocrine to move to where he needs to. I think Adrenal Glands are really good on Warriors so I'm trying to keep them in place. |
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