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Post by zimko on Apr 21, 2022 13:42:52 GMT
Of course I'm still second guessing myself on the tyrant guard. If I have enough Warriors to screen then maybe I don't need genestealers? Ugh.
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Post by zimko on Apr 21, 2022 14:02:39 GMT
Maybe a more MSU option to fully utilize the Levi adaptation for 1 reroll each time they attack. This brings back the tyrant guard and leaves the upgrades on the Harpies.
Leviathan Battalion
HQ
Flyrant: (relic -1cp) Shardgullet - 205
Powers: Psychic Scream, The Horror
Neurothrope: Resonance Barb, Warlord: Synaptic Tendrils - 100
Powers: Paroxysm, Onslaught, Catalyst
Troops
3 Warriors: 2 Deathspitters, 2 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, 1 Venom Cannon, Adrenal Glands - 95
3 Warriors: 2 Deathspitters, 2 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, 1 Venom Cannon, Adrenal Glands - 95
3 Warriors: 2 Deathspitters, 2 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, 1 Venom Cannon, Adrenal Glands - 95
3 Warriors: 2 Deathspitters, 2 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, 1 Venom Cannon, Adrenal Glands - 95
Elites
Maleceptor - 170
Powers: Psychic Scream, Neuroparasite
3 Venomthropes - 105
3 Zoanthropes - 150
Power: Neuroparasite
Deathleaper: Alien Cunning (-1 cp) - 95
3 Tyrant Guard: Adrenal Glands - 135
Aircraft
Harpy: Synaptic Enhancement, 2 HVC - 180
Harpy: Dermic Symbiosis, 2 HVC - 195
Leviathan Patrol (-2 cp)
HQ
Flyrant: (relic -1cp) Reaper of Obliterax, (WLT -1cp) Adaptive Biology, Adrenal Glands - 205
Powers: Psychic Scream, The Horror
Troops
3 Warriors: 2 Deathspitters, 2 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, 1 Venom Cannon - 80
2000 pts: 6 cp (-2 patrol, -2 relics, -2 wlt)
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Post by Master Chief on Apr 21, 2022 14:29:06 GMT
In my opinion you don't really need the Levi adaptation on the warriors, you actually really need it on the HVCs though, so if you want to have an MSU approach bring some carnifexes.
Warriors can be 3, 4 or 5, anyway you'll bring only 1 venom cannon unless you play 6 models per unit and realistically you'll use the re roll on that gun.
I personally prefer 3 units of 5 warriors to have the chance to give where needed -1 dmg spending only 1 CP and are much scarier than a standard 3 man unit and can have a better use from various buffs.
And to be honest I think the 5th 3 man warrior unit is useless, I'd remove one of those units from the batallion to bring 3 pirovores.
Anyway you'll have the 4 troops for batallion + patrol, but in some games 3 pirovores can be very useful.
I'd also consider to drop the 80 pts warriors unit without AG for 10 gargoyles, great for RND and movement blocking.
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Post by zimko on Apr 21, 2022 15:25:10 GMT
Yeah I agree on preferring 3 units of 5 warriors. It's just such a solid block of troops. I hadn't thought about gargoyles, having 3 units of 5 warriors and 10 gargoyles would make a pretty good team for RND.
Leviathan Battalion
HQ
Flyrant: (relic -1cp) Shardgullet - 205
Powers: Psychic Scream, The Horror
Neurothrope: Resonance Barb, Warlord: Synaptic Tendrils - 100
Powers: Paroxysm, Onslaught, Catalyst
Troops
5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 4 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, Adrenal Glands - 140
5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 4 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, Adrenal Glands - 140
5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 4 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, Adrenal Glands - 140
Elites
Maleceptor - 170
Powers: Psychic Scream, Neuroparasite
3 Venomthropes - 105
3 Zoanthropes - 150
Power: Neuroparasite
Deathleaper: Alien Cunning (-1 cp) - 95
3 Tyrant Guard - 120
Aircraft
Harpy: Synaptic Enhancement, 2 HVC - 180
Harpy: 2 HVC - 170
Leviathan Patrol (-2 cp)
HQ
Flyrant: (relic -1cp) Reaper of Obliterax, (WLT -1cp) Adaptive Biology, Adrenal Glands - 205
Powers: Psychic Scream, The Horror
Troops
10 Gargoyles - 80
2000 pts: 6 cp (-2 patrol, -2 relics, -2 wlt)
I dropped dermic symbiosis on a harpy, the warrior venom cannons and the tyrant gaurd's adrenal glands. Of those I feel like I'll miss the adrenal glands the most but it keeps all 3 warrior squads consistently strong.
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Post by Master Chief on Apr 21, 2022 16:57:17 GMT
Looks sexy! I like it!
I am playing a not too much different list (walkrant with shard, no deathleaper, just one harpy, no gargoyles but in 3 carnifexes) and someone very recently (like 30 mins ago) notified me that I can actually divide the list in 2 patrols and gain 1CP.
Can't you try to do the same by fitting T guards and Zoas into no slots and one harpy per patrol?
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Apr 21, 2022 17:03:55 GMT
Looks sexy! I like it! I am playing a not too much different list (walkrant with shard, no deathleaper, just one harpy, no gargoyles but in 3 carnifexes) and someone very recently (like 30 mins ago) notified me that I can actually divide the list in 2 patrols and gain 1CP. Can't you try to do the same by fitting T guards and Zoas into no slots and one harpy per patrol? The WL is in the Battalion and as such the detachment costs 0 CP. Making it a Patrol would still have the detachment with the WL cost 0 CP. |
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Post by Master Chief on Apr 21, 2022 17:13:15 GMT
Looks sexy! I like it! I am playing a not too much different list (walkrant with shard, no deathleaper, just one harpy, no gargoyles but in 3 carnifexes) and someone very recently (like 30 mins ago) notified me that I can actually divide the list in 2 patrols and gain 1CP. Can't you try to do the same by fitting T guards and Zoas into no slots and one harpy per patrol? The WL is in the Battalion and as such the detachment costs 0 CP. Making it a Patrol would still have the detachment with the WL cost 0 CP. You're right, it was good for me as I have only 3 troops in my list and I couldn't find any points to fit the 4th one. |
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Apr 21, 2022 17:31:20 GMT
Of course I'm still second guessing myself on the tyrant guard. If I have enough Warriors to screen then maybe I don't need genestealers? Ugh. I think you are right for dropping TG, I don't think they have the value w/o SL if you can place terrain that hides Flyrants. I'd drop them from the most recent list for a 2nd Garg unit (very good if planning for Stranglehold or RND), Dermic on the empty Harpy, and 15 pts leftover (maybe FH on the Warriors for 2+ rr1's to-hit when needed). |
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Post by zimko on Apr 21, 2022 18:11:58 GMT
Of course I'm still second guessing myself on the tyrant guard. If I have enough Warriors to screen then maybe I don't need genestealers? Ugh. I think you are right for dropping TG, I don't think they have the value w/o SL if you can place terrain that hides Flyrants. I'd drop them from the most recent list for a 2nd Garg unit (very good if planning for Stranglehold or RND), Dermic on the empty Harpy, and 15 pts leftover (maybe FH on the Warriors for 2+ rr1's to-hit when needed). There's a lot of stuff that wants to hide on turn 1 in this list. Each obscuring terrain creates a 'shadow' that I get to fill up and being able to place the Flyrants outside that shadow is helpful. Especially with their wings, the Flyrants usually have to take up prime space. So I'm not confident in Gargoyles pulling their weight. They're hard to hide, cost CP to do RND effectively and don't kill much. Instead, I could make this 2 patrols and add 5 genestealers. The genestealers can kill some stuff and help protect me from turn 1 alpha strikes like Falcons with Fire Dragons or Tyannocytes with Warriors. Leviathan Patrol
HQFlyrant: (relic -1cp) Shardgullet - 205 Powers: Psychic Scream, The Horror Neurothrope: Resonance Barb, Warlord: Synaptic Tendrils - 100 Powers: Paroxysm, Onslaught, Catalyst Troops5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 4 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 4 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 ElitesMaleceptor - 170 Powers: Psychic Scream, Neuroparasite 3 Venomthropes - 105 AircraftHarpy: Synaptic Enhancement, 2 HVC - 180 Harpy: 2 HVC - 170 No Force Org
3 Zoanthropes - 150 Power: Neuroparasite 3 Tyrant Guard - 120 Leviathan Patrol (-2 cp)
HQFlyrant: (relic -1cp) Reaper of Obliterax, (WLT -1cp) Adaptive Biology, Adrenal Glands - 205 Powers: Psychic Scream, The Horror Troops5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 4 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 Elites
Deathleaper: Alien Cunning (-1 cp) - 95 5 Genestealers - 80 2000 pts: 6 cp (-2 patrol, -2 relics, -2 wlt) 6 elites but it all still fits in 2 patrols thanks to Zoanthropes and Tyrant Guard not taking up a force org slot. |
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Post by zimko on Apr 25, 2022 14:45:25 GMT
I have a GT this weekend and my list is locked in. Here's what I decided on taking. The main difference from the last list is I removed the Genestealers to add 2 pyrovores, adrenal glands to the Tyrant Guard, and toxin sacs to the reaper flyrant.
I'm going to make more Pyrovores but for now I only have 2. They have very efficient profiles and genestealers are just a tough sell for what you get at 80 pts.
Leviathan Patrol
HQ
Flyrant: (relic -1cp) Shardgullet - 205
Powers: Psychic Scream, The Horror
Neurothrope: Resonance Barb, Warlord: Synaptic Tendrils - 100
Powers: Paroxysm, Onslaught, Catalyst
Troops
5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 4 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, Adrenal Glands - 140
5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 4 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, Adrenal Glands - 140
Elites
Maleceptor - 170
Powers: Psychic Scream, Neuroparasite
3 Venomthropes - 105
Aircraft
Harpy: Synaptic Enhancement, 2 HVC - 180
Harpy: 2 HVC - 170
No Force Org
3 Zoanthropes - 150
Power: Neuroparasite
3 Tyrant Guard: Adrenal Glands - 135
Leviathan Patrol (-2 cp)
HQ
Flyrant: (relic -1cp) Reaper of Obliterax, (WLT -1cp) Adaptive Biology, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs - 210
Powers: Psychic Scream, The Horror
Troops
5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 4 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, Adrenal Glands - 140
Elites
Deathleaper: Alien Cunning (-1 cp) - 95
2 Pyrovores - 60
2000 pts: 6 cp (-2 patrol, -2 relics, -2 wlt)
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Apr 25, 2022 15:12:44 GMT
I like the pyrovore addition vice GS. Neither is great in Levi, but pyros give more in every area besides T1 screening I think. Once you make more Pyros, are you thinking of adding more to this list or would you think to swap to Kraken/Kronos to get more out of them?
Edit: Food for thought, Pyros are probably the best all-round unit in the codex when paired with SL imo.
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Post by zimko on Apr 25, 2022 17:14:57 GMT
I like the pyrovore addition vice GS. Neither is great in Levi, but pyros give more in every area besides T1 screening I think. Once you make more Pyros, are you thinking of adding more to this list or would you think to swap to Kraken/Kronos to get more out of them? Edit: Food for thought, Pyros are probably the best all-round unit in the codex when paired with SL imo. They have very good statlines for their points cost, but I don't think it's worth building an army around them. So I wouldn't change hive fleets just to make Pyros more effective. I'd just find points to add more of them because at 6 pts per wound these guys are extremely cheap for what you get. It's 270 pts to take a full 9 Pyrovores. That's dirt cheap. So if I change hive fleets it's going to be because of the rest of the army, not because of Pyrovores. |
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Apr 25, 2022 18:41:39 GMT
Oh I wasn’t suggesting to necessarily change just because of Pyros, but more wondering if you’d be more temped to swap to other list designs in fleets favoring pyros more. Considering how effective they have been for me in tests, I think they actually have the value only at 270 pts to build around though. So many things work well in Kraken and Kronos that it’s not a downgrade to the overall army from Levi, just a side grade which can be better/worse based on meta and terrain.
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Post by zimko on Apr 25, 2022 19:43:21 GMT
For my next list I will try to take advantage of the Lurk biomorphology. I'm thinking Jormungandr. The 120 pt HVC/Scything Talon with Enhanced Senses Carnifex is a solid brick of a unit that will do well in Jorm. Raveners with double scything talons and deathspitters look really good on paper with 7 attacks and 12" movement. The Jorm psychic power will give them AP -3 for 5 attacks and -2 for 2 attacks.
2 units of Pyrovores are a solid option for tunneling in Jorm.
A quick battlescribe roughdraft has something like this.
Swarmlord, 2x Neurothropes, Maleceptor, 5 carnifexes, 3x3 pyros, 2x5 raveners, 3x3 Warriors.
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Apr 26, 2022 12:59:46 GMT
I think dropping to 4 Carnifex and going with HVC/ES/AG/2xCC is potentially worth the loss of 1 body (if the pts are needed). With SL, those CC can HURT when using the AG strat.
I think a Tervigon may deserve a 2nd look in Jorm as well. Obsec on a 155 pt T8/2+/5+++ body touting Maw Claws has been a force in my Behemoth and Jorm tests, and the spawned gants can just sit back and screen, be action bodies, or even score with SL Obsec (can spawn then grant Obsec in same command phase). The Carnifex should draw T1/2 heat away from the Tervigon; HVC and CC are great at attracting attention. I don’t think any of the Lurk fleets should be without a Tervi even if not running a block of gants. Pretty much every other monster should take target priority, so the missing bodyguard isn’t so bad. The 2” move Imperative might be my favorite one, and I think it is about equal to the Zoan imperative when considering tactical ceiling.
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