Initial Impressions of 9th Codex

[kazetanade]

I want to preface this with how I love how the codex feels - relative to current stat lines, the bugs do a good job of representing the Tyranids power fantasy of being swarming, hulking alien beast that are hyper adaptable munchies with a very wide selection of units to represent different tools to achieve the ends.

That said, going through the codex I notice that the feel and general approach of the overall army philosophy is very much like the initial release of Orks - tough to chew troops and pretty great stat lines overall - poor selection of strategems to boost their output or flexibility.

The Nids codex is not as dire compared Orks, but it sort of pales in comparison to Elves, Tau, Custodes.

I think a big part of the codex's design philosophy is to make us into a beta strike army - the reason everything seems to hit so hard is that they are expecting a high level of attrition as we move across the table, as we've essentially lost our main movement tools and tricks. The stat line changes aim to address that so that we don't attrition too fast. We note also that our guns are taking a back seat, as the most effective guns aren't really spammable, but each individual gun is a lot stronger now than before.

Personally I'm not a big fan of (please do not swear) there and take it armies, but with our speed and damage access nerfed it does feel like there's only 1 way to play Nids successfully (not only 1 list, but overall game play style), which defeats the purpose of being a generalist.

What other thoughts do people have on the new codex?

[Hive Bahamut]

With how expensive the "horde" units are I suspect to see very little of anything 20+. I suspect 2x 10 Gargs become Nids action monkeys as they can "RttS" but cost double with half the durability.

The only unit that looks remotely interesting are a Trygon with Dermic Symbiosis (can't take on Prime for.. Reasons.) Raveners and somehow Pyrovores. Exocrine back.

All the crutches from last book are beyond on time out. Devourers/Impalers might be the biggest nerf in an edition of MORE not less, and although the Tyrant Nerf was expected, the Swarmlord not gaining Supreme Commander was a huge missed high five. Once again a whole unit type many armies simply don't get "because." (My fanboi still says Hivelord will be our Supreme when it comes out and dies to some random plot armour.)

I really feel like they started with the Biomorphologies and used all their brainpower coming up with 40 half assed traits they have, shortly after gutting the entire Adaptive Physiologies from the supplements.

Braindead secondaries...

Hormagaunts that cost 2x guardsmen.. (AG)

Auspex with zero units to use it on..

Overpowered Zoan ability and others meh..

Tons of gimmicks that will fall flat once exposed (Tervigon hiding etc.)

Somehow almost all Monsters do D2 now instead of d3 or D3, which are both arguably better.

Nerf to Hive Guard immediately after Tau and Aeldari Indirect got a huge buff. (Biggest salt)


They could be some secret sauce but I have a feeling the lifespan of this codex is already on a clock, terrible internal balance and losing mobility in a mobile edition with crumbs to compensate is hilarious.

[jesses]

Are we reading the same leaks? I am beyond excited about the changes.

• Stat boosts we've been asking for since time immemorial. Monsters who are finally 3+ on WS or BS (or both), depending on their role. More Wounds, more attacks, higher toughness, and better saves sprinkled around liberally. 
  
  
• Substantially less randomness all around. HVC at flat three shots, most weapons deal flat damage instead of variable, even the ones with some element of randomness have it bracketed better (Stranglethorn doing D3+3 instead of D6 as an example).
  
  
• Movement is better across the board. Sure we lost some tricks, but our default speed is so much better. SK's with 10" move base, 12" move troops, and a bunch of fast units are actually useful now: Raveners, Lictors, Deathleaper. Most units gained 1 or 2" of movement as well, which all adds up, especially with AG giving +1" on top. 9th ed missions heavily prioritize midfield and we can overrun it extremely fast. Not fast enough? Hydra gives another +1" across the army. Seriously, we have Carnifex that move as fast as Assault Marines now. Still not fast enough for you? Add a Tervigon to your army for the Surging Vitality Imperative and now everything within synapse range get's another +2". Now you have 14" move Screamer-Killers, Trygons, Hormagaunts, etc, and 10" move Warriors that turn. Not to mention a 20" move Flyrant. Speaking of Trygon's, the Prime can hand out +1" Advance and Charge each turn to anything within Synaptic Link range.
  
  
• No more Instinctive Behaviour is huge. 
  
  
• Put Synapse on any Monster for 10pts. You want a deep-striking Synapse Mawloc? Go for it. How about a synapse Harpy with it's 40" move to make sure you can plug any hole in your synapse web? It's yours.
  
  
• The Synaptic Imperatives are across the board great. Neurothrope gives +1 to psychic tests and deny the witch, but also hands out a 5+ FNP against mortal wounds. What a great way to shut down T-Sons/Grey Knights or a C'tan heavy list that dishes out mortals. Then retaliate the next round with the Maleceptor's Psychic Oversight allowing ranged units to still fire even when performing an action, and more importantly lets Psykers perform a psychic action and still cast powers. Now your Mal can perform Encephalic Diffusion and still cast two powers (and, if an enemy unit is within 12", slam it with Psychic Overload 3 times for between 3 and 9 more mortals).
  
  
• Biovores can just choose to spawn Spore Mines now, and the Sporocyst can spawn at double the range, from 9" to 18". It's a little hard to read but it also looks like Sporo now spawns units of 6 Spore Mines instead of 3. If that's the case I'm definitely going to try one out with the 10pt Synapse upgrade for midfield control. That is a non-trivial amount of mines to spawn each game, and with the increased range you can really use them to mess up the opponents plans. In nearly all of the Nachmund missions a well placed Sporocyst can spawn mines directly onto 2-4 objectives. T1 you can just plonk 6 Spore Mines onto an Objective that your opponent now needs to waste shots clearing before they can approach. I'm genuinely considering a 2 Harpy, 3 Sporo, 3 x 3 model Biovore brood list to just flood the board with mines every turn. That's 33-51 Spore Mines spawned a turn. That is an incredible amount of board control plus it puts your opponents in the lose-lose position where they have to waste a ton of shooting each turn to clear them out, or go after the spawning units and just eat a bunch of mortal wounds for a few turns. Meanwhile the Harpies have great firepower of their own and even the Sporos can dump a lot of shots. And that's for 1,030pts, I still have just under half my army left.
  
  
• We may not have a lot of high damage attacks, but man do we get an insane volume of them. Haruspex with 15 bloody maw attacks, Trygons with 12+1 attacks, Raveners with 5+2 attacks! Quantity has a quality all it's own. Plus, put Monstrous Musculature on a Adrenal Glands sporting Behemoth Trygon Prime and it has 12 S:9 D:3 attacks on the charge. Statistically, that will wreck basically anyone's day. 

Sure, we've lost a few crutches but we've gained waaaaaaaay more in return. We definitely don't need to sit there and take it.

[niiai]

One thing I might have missed. Are we stil fearless in synapse?

[dkng]

Mar 17, 2022 7:46:17 GMT niiai said:

One thing I might have missed. Are we stil fearless in synapse?

Afaik this is the only thing Synapse does nowadays.

[kubimaniac]

Synapse also spreads the synaptic imperatives

[beetlejuice]

Mar 17, 2022 7:46:17 GMT niiai said:

One thing I might have missed. Are we stil fearless in synapse?

yes but 6”

[nintendofilo]

Mar 17, 2022 7:42:58 GMT jesses said:

Are we reading the same leaks? I am beyond excited about the changes.

• Stat boosts we've been asking for since time immemorial. Monsters who are finally 3+ on WS or BS (or both), depending on their role. More Wounds, more attacks, higher toughness, and better saves sprinkled around liberally. 
  
  
• Substantially less randomness all around. HVC at flat three shots, most weapons deal flat damage instead of variable, even the ones with some element of randomness have it bracketed better (Stranglethorn doing D3+3 instead of D6 as an example).
  
  
• Movement is better across the board. Sure we lost some tricks, but our default speed is so much better. SK's with 10" move base, 12" move troops, and a bunch of fast units are actually useful now: Raveners, Lictors, Deathleaper. Most units gained 1 or 2" of movement as well, which all adds up, especially with AG giving +1" on top. 9th ed missions heavily prioritize midfield and we can overrun it extremely fast. Not fast enough? Hydra gives another +1" across the army. Seriously, we have Carnifex that move as fast as Assault Marines now. Still not fast enough for you? Add a Tervigon to your army for the Surging Vitality Imperative and now everything within synapse range get's another +2". Now you have 14" move Screamer-Killers, Trygons, Hormagaunts, etc, and 10" move Warriors that turn. Not to mention a 20" move Flyrant. Speaking of Trygon's, the Prime can hand out +1" Advance and Charge each turn to anything within Synaptic Link range.
  
  
• No more Instinctive Behaviour is huge. 
  
  
• Put Synapse on any Monster for 10pts. You want a deep-striking Synapse Mawloc? Go for it. How about a synapse Harpy with it's 40" move to make sure you can plug any hole in your synapse web? It's yours.
  
  
• The Synaptic Imperatives are across the board great. Neurothrope gives +1 to psychic tests and deny the witch, but also hands out a 5+ FNP against mortal wounds. What a great way to shut down T-Sons/Grey Knights or a C'tan heavy list that dishes out mortals. Then retaliate the next round with the Maleceptor's Psychic Oversight allowing ranged units to still fire even when performing an action, and more importantly lets Psykers perform a psychic action and still cast powers. Now your Mal can perform Encephalic Diffusion and still cast two powers (and, if an enemy unit is within 12", slam it with Psychic Overload 3 times for between 3 and 9 more mortals).
  
  
• Biovores can just choose to spawn Spore Mines now, and the Sporocyst can spawn at double the range, from 9" to 18". It's a little hard to read but it also looks like Sporo now spawns units of 6 Spore Mines instead of 3. If that's the case I'm definitely going to try one out with the 10pt Synapse upgrade for midfield control. That is a non-trivial amount of mines to spawn each game, and with the increased range you can really use them to mess up the opponents plans. In nearly all of the Nachmund missions a well placed Sporocyst can spawn mines directly onto 2-4 objectives. T1 you can just plonk 6 Spore Mines onto an Objective that your opponent now needs to waste shots clearing before they can approach. I'm genuinely considering a 2 Harpy, 3 Sporo, 3 x 3 model Biovore brood list to just flood the board with mines every turn. That's 33-51 Spore Mines spawned a turn. That is an incredible amount of board control plus it puts your opponents in the lose-lose position where they have to waste a ton of shooting each turn to clear them out, or go after the spawning units and just eat a bunch of mortal wounds for a few turns. Meanwhile the Harpies have great firepower of their own and even the Sporos can dump a lot of shots. And that's for 1,030pts, I still have just under half my army left.
  
  
• We may not have a lot of high damage attacks, but man do we get an insane volume of them. Haruspex with 15 bloody maw attacks, Trygons with 12+1 attacks, Raveners with 5+2 attacks! Quantity has a quality all it's own. Plus, put Monstrous Musculature on a Adrenal Glands sporting Behemoth Trygon Prime and it has 12 S:9 D:3 attacks on the charge. Statistically, that will wreck basically anyone's day. 

Sure, we've lost a few crutches but we've gained waaaaaaaay more in return. We definitely don't need to sit there and take it.

Can't possibly agree with you more, the synaptic link buffs and synaptic imperatives gives layers to rules most people don't get. Being able to toss reroll 1s to wound to another side of the battlefield as long as you can chain it is important!

The toxicrine for example is now a huge utility monster, able to mess with other units, force bad charges, keep units constrained and on top of that once in combat you can use a stratagem to throw a 9 inch aura of - 1 to hit.

Raveners are good now. Sure points are difficult and things will change from what was... But I find all of this good

[hivefleetkerrigan]

How can the maleceptor do a psychic action and then cast 2x? I thought you had to do a psychic action or cast but couldn't do both.

[trashcan01]

After two days of reading, and actually compiling an 2000 points army, with added Synaptic Imperatives and Synaptic Links + Stratagem, Relics and Warlord traits, that looks good on paper - I am mindblown. In a good way. This doesn't feel like a new edition. This feels like a brand new army. It's how I wanted Tyranids to be. That's the short version.

Everything looks awesome. I have a feeling we no longer depend on "gotcha" moments, flinging units across the board and dancing around our opponents. We can rush, we can dig in, we move as a HIVE organism (keep everything within 6'' or at least 12'') and nomnom.

The ability to have 3x Warlord traits (FNP 5++, <Core> +1 hit, Double Synaptic Link) and 3x Relics is great (for 2000pt games).
Mobility? Pathogenesis on Venom Cannon Prime is almost an auto include and basically guarantees extra D6 on each charge (1CP strat).
Damage? HVCannon Relic will obliterate anything it shoots at (Assault 3 36'', S12, AP-5. 5D)
Dependable Psychic? Resonance Barb is amazing, as some of our powers require 7 to go off.

OVERALL
Almost all of the Hive fleets (tendrils) are very interesting, and the ability to switch one part of the adaptation is amazing. Yeah, some of them really depend on the models you have, but most of them support both balanced and specialized lists.

Synaptic imperatives are great and, unless I missed out on a rule - Synaptic Links abilities now stack unless it is exactly the same ability! Speaking of Synaptic Links - you can now plink and plonk most of the Psy powers and abilities across the map, as long as you have Synapse models 12'' from each other. Basically, you want to diversify your main Synapse creatures as much as possible to have various options on the table.

Datasheed numbers are great, everything is viable now, especially if you look at last few editions.
Warriors are finally back as adaptable apex predators.
Did you see Fexes? Did you compare 8ed 140pts Dakkafex with the new one? Damage? Durability? Holy mother of Christ.
Hormagants are so scary even without any upgrades (bacically what Genestealers were before), as are Raveners.
Zhoanthropes, despite having 4++ now are great and fluffy and can dish out Mortal Wounds in ridiculous amount. (hoping the missing Synapse keyword is a typo)
Venomthropes no longer depend on unit count to protect our Monsters.
Tyrannocyte can drop Turn 1. So on, and so on.

Stratagems are okay. We lost our biggest bags of tricks, but thankfully survivability is still there: reduce damage on Warriors/WPrime, we can transhuman our Monster, add some punch to some shooting, extra attacks, AP, damage. It's all there, just not game changing as it was before.

As with the nerfs - I feel they are well deserved. Hive guard Impaled got hit a bit;  using Rippers to fill out essential Detachment slots doesn't work anymore. Obnoxious Spore mine movement block no longer works. One Hive Tyrant per army is fair, as some people had more Tyrants than Rippers or Gaunts on the table - remember those days when Flyrants did all the heavy lifting? *bleurgh*

The biggest disappointment comes in the form of unique secondary objectives - while fluffy, highly situational and risky. Hard pass on those at the moment.

I can't wait to play my first game next week. *eeeeeek*

[trashcan01]

Mar 17, 2022 11:55:10 GMT hivefleetkerrigan said:

How can the maleceptor do a psychic action and then cast 2x? I thought you had to do a psychic action or cast but couldn't do both.

He has his thing - "Synaptic Imperative: Psychic Oversight" where he allows psykers to do that, 1x per battle, basically armywide. 

Short version:
Once per batte, at the start of round, pick Maleceptors "thing". All Synapse creatures get, until the end of the round, the following:
Units within 6'' can: perform actions and shoot; Advance / Fall back and perform actions; Psy actions don't prevent casting powers.

 

[1ofmany]

Regarding the Maleceptor.. With the Leviathan psychic power you can also use the Imperative every round. And you can also cast another power for 1 CP. Neurothrope can also give it 3d6 drop 1 on the cast. So 3 casts and also an action for 4 psychic overloads and all cast with 3d6 drop 1. Lots of mortals..

[yoritomo]

Mar 17, 2022 7:42:58 GMT jesses said:

Are we reading the same leaks? I am beyond excited about the changes.

• Stat boosts we've been asking for since time immemorial. Monsters who are finally 3+ on WS or BS (or both), depending on their role. More Wounds, more attacks, higher toughness, and better saves sprinkled around liberally. 
  
  
• Substantially less randomness all around. HVC at flat three shots, most weapons deal flat damage instead of variable, even the ones with some element of randomness have it bracketed better (Stranglethorn doing D3+3 instead of D6 as an example).
  
  
• Movement is better across the board. Sure we lost some tricks, but our default speed is so much better. SK's with 10" move base, 12" move troops, and a bunch of fast units are actually useful now: Raveners, Lictors, Deathleaper. Most units gained 1 or 2" of movement as well, which all adds up, especially with AG giving +1" on top. 9th ed missions heavily prioritize midfield and we can overrun it extremely fast. Not fast enough? Hydra gives another +1" across the army. Seriously, we have Carnifex that move as fast as Assault Marines now. Still not fast enough for you? Add a Tervigon to your army for the Surging Vitality Imperative and now everything within synapse range get's another +2". Now you have 14" move Screamer-Killers, Trygons, Hormagaunts, etc, and 10" move Warriors that turn. Not to mention a 20" move Flyrant. Speaking of Trygon's, the Prime can hand out +1" Advance and Charge each turn to anything within Synaptic Link range.
  
  
• No more Instinctive Behaviour is huge. 
  
  
• Put Synapse on any Monster for 10pts. You want a deep-striking Synapse Mawloc? Go for it. How about a synapse Harpy with it's 40" move to make sure you can plug any hole in your synapse web? It's yours.
  
  
• The Synaptic Imperatives are across the board great. Neurothrope gives +1 to psychic tests and deny the witch, but also hands out a 5+ FNP against mortal wounds. What a great way to shut down T-Sons/Grey Knights or a C'tan heavy list that dishes out mortals. Then retaliate the next round with the Maleceptor's Psychic Oversight allowing ranged units to still fire even when performing an action, and more importantly lets Psykers perform a psychic action and still cast powers. Now your Mal can perform Encephalic Diffusion and still cast two powers (and, if an enemy unit is within 12", slam it with Psychic Overload 3 times for between 3 and 9 more mortals).
  
  
• Biovores can just choose to spawn Spore Mines now, and the Sporocyst can spawn at double the range, from 9" to 18". It's a little hard to read but it also looks like Sporo now spawns units of 6 Spore Mines instead of 3. If that's the case I'm definitely going to try one out with the 10pt Synapse upgrade for midfield control. That is a non-trivial amount of mines to spawn each game, and with the increased range you can really use them to mess up the opponents plans. In nearly all of the Nachmund missions a well placed Sporocyst can spawn mines directly onto 2-4 objectives. T1 you can just plonk 6 Spore Mines onto an Objective that your opponent now needs to waste shots clearing before they can approach. I'm genuinely considering a 2 Harpy, 3 Sporo, 3 x 3 model Biovore brood list to just flood the board with mines every turn. That's 33-51 Spore Mines spawned a turn. That is an incredible amount of board control plus it puts your opponents in the lose-lose position where they have to waste a ton of shooting each turn to clear them out, or go after the spawning units and just eat a bunch of mortal wounds for a few turns. Meanwhile the Harpies have great firepower of their own and even the Sporos can dump a lot of shots. And that's for 1,030pts, I still have just under half my army left.
  
  
• We may not have a lot of high damage attacks, but man do we get an insane volume of them. Haruspex with 15 bloody maw attacks, Trygons with 12+1 attacks, Raveners with 5+2 attacks! Quantity has a quality all it's own. Plus, put Monstrous Musculature on a Adrenal Glands sporting Behemoth Trygon Prime and it has 12 S:9 D:3 attacks on the charge. Statistically, that will wreck basically anyone's day. 

Sure, we've lost a few crutches but we've gained waaaaaaaay more in return. We definitely don't need to sit there and take it.

While nothing you’ve said is wrong, I feel like this is a view from someone wearing rose colored glasses. I mean our “buff” to the tryannofex is going from shooting two time twice (at different targets) to getting three shots. I guess that fourth shot wasn’t really that important.

Let’s not forget that we lost almost every ability from our old codex. They were replaced with watered down versions of the synaptic link abilities from our war zone book. Passing buffs along is cool, but they need to be buffs I want to pass along. Re-rolling one die or -1 Ap just doesn’t do it for me.

We did gain synaptic imperatives. Some of them are really cool. Some of them, well, they exist. And as cool as they are I can see them being difficult to get due to the 6” range. Let’s not go into how that will affect synapse control.


There have been significant nerfs as well as buffs in our new codex. I don’t think anyone can say this codex is bad. I also don’t think anyone can say this codex is amazing. To do either would be ignoring large changes to our codex to support your position.

What I do think is that if the Tau codex was a 180 degree turn in their play style, then our codex is a hard 90 degree turn to our old play style. I think that on paper we remain where we are right now. The only way this codex becomes amazing is through new army archetypes that emerge and new play styles are discovered. Which, granted, the new codex has left plenty of room for.

[trashcan01]

Mar 17, 2022 12:40:32 GMT yoritomo said:

...
Passing buffs along is cool, but they need to be buffs I want to pass along. Re-rolling one die or -1 Ap just doesn’t do it for me.

Not sure what are you referring to, but shouldn't Warrior Prime and Hive Tyrant re-rolls affect the whole unit?
As someone already mentioned, rolling multiple dice is speeding just things up, as each attack should be resolved individually. What I'm saying is that those re-rolls affect all models in the unit. Everyone in the selected unit re-rolls... ... ... Right?

[niiai]

Can I jump in here, what do people think of the Maleceptor? It used to be able to babysit T8 and give the - 1 strength stratagem.

However, now it is an action, meaning you can not do it if you go second.

Second, it's psykick link seems bad unless you can get two psykick links. Then someone can do interegate secondary and you can still cast spells.

I have been wanted to get one for a while. But I am a bit on the fence.