Initial Impressions of 9th Codex

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Mar 17, 2022 13:03:55 GMT niiai said:

Can I jump in here, what do people think of the Maleceptor? It used to be able to babysit T8 and give the - 1 strength stratagem.

However, now it is an action, meaning you can not do it if you go second.

Second, it's psykick link seems bad unless you can get two psykick links. Then someone can do interegate secondary and you can still cast spells.

I have been wanted to get one for a while. But I am a bit on the fence.

It now serves the purpose of a mortal wounds machine gun.

If you need to protect yourself on your turn you have the option to do so instead.

[piersonsmuppet]

Mar 17, 2022 13:03:55 GMT niiai said:

Can I jump in here, what do people think of the Maleceptor? It used to be able to babysit T8 and give the - 1 strength stratagem.

However, now it is an action, meaning you can not do it if you go second.

Second, it's psykick link seems bad unless you can get two psykick links. Then someone can do interegate secondary and you can still cast spells.

I have been wanted to get one for a while. But I am a bit on the fence.

Malceptor looks like one of the better units in the new codex, great MW output and the Imperative is great from a scoring perspective. I'll probably have 1+ in every list I make until it doesn't live up to expectations, but I think that is unlikely.

[kazetanade]

Mar 17, 2022 7:46:17 GMT niiai said:

One thing I might have missed. Are we stil fearless in synapse?

Yep, the only army with true Fearless.

[piersonsmuppet]

Initial thoughts on the codex here are simple, I wanted a strong Tier 2 codex and got exactly what I hoped for. We don't have anything too crazy, and we also don't have anything that looks like shelf decoration. HG are probably the "worst" unit atm, but they are uniquely positioned to abuse our auspex scan (if I'm remembering it right). The codex looks great in terms of promoting variety of play that can work at the competitive level, it looks bad in that we will probably be fighting uphill vs the top Tua/Custode/Eldar lists.

[thehungeringswarm]

I must admit I am somewhat relieved to see that I am not the only one with some reservations. I would like to say its not that I think the new codex is bad, not at all, and its certainly a lot fluffier which I love, I am just worried that its not enough compared to the other new codexes. T8 2+ save is great and certainly a durability increase, but will it actually make a significant (This is the important word) difference to our survivability in a world where str 14 ap -5 weapons are relatively common? The new venom cannons look real good until you consider that dmg 4 is literally just the minimum dmg of all the new d3+3 weapons. Theres lots of stuff that looks good until you stop and think about it. Reroll wound rolls of 1 to one core unit instead of all core units in range. Is it good? Yes! Is it as good as what a lot of other armies are getting? well not really. I really hope I am wrong, and I love that we are switching back to a melee focus, but the fact that everything go better but also more expensive is worrying me. Especially for our chaff units. I was so happy to see my beloved hormogaunts were looking kind of sexy, immediately started planning on a max sized squad with adrenal's and then I realized that would be 300 pts... I'd love to be wrong but I am just concerned that this is a classic GW "buff with so many conditions that it isn't actually much of a buff" move.

[joysan76]

Personally i think that gw never did a release to nullify it aftr three monts so... i think that ocatarius will be usable

I think sinaptic link presented and leviathan focus will stay (simply while the codex offer us normal powers for free, octarius offer us premium powers to pay)

about the BoB part i suppose will be somethign will disappear, surely the biofleet customization part but probably also the powers and the new stratagems the most of the rules ahs been added and adjusted to the edition in the codex.

[zimko]

Mar 17, 2022 13:03:55 GMT niiai said:

Can I jump in here, what do people think of the Maleceptor? It used to be able to babysit T8 and give the - 1 strength stratagem.

However, now it is an action, meaning you can not do it if you go second.

Second, it's psykick link seems bad unless you can get two psykick links. Then someone can do interegate secondary and you can still cast spells.

I have been wanted to get one for a while. But I am a bit on the fence.

I think you misunderstand how the new psychic link works. When you activate a link for a turn... EVERY synapse creature gains that link's affects. So every psyker in the army can perform an action and still cast spells.

If you're playing as Leviathon, then you can also cast a power that gives the maleceptor's ability to a single psyker. Not quite as effective but still worth noting.

[parzaius]

Let's see...
- Winged Tyrant didn't get the stat boosts of the ground one, gets half the weapon options, AND still costs way more
- Both tyrants lost the most commonly taken weapons (Devs & Rending Claws)
- Swarmlord lost his "move a unit" power; the only reason anyone took him
- All Tyrants (and Swarmy) are limit 1 per detachment in an edition that punishes you for taking multiple detachments
- Broodlord lost Toughness (for some reason)
- Trygon and Trygon Prime's main weapon went from d6 to 2
- Genestealers are wildly worse than their Purestrain cousins, despite now ALSO being elites, max 10, losing their 'advance and charge' rule, and their cost increasing 33%
- Devourer gauts are a joke despite costing more. It sure feels like somebody meant to type Assault 5 (like literally every other Devourer in the codex) but fat-fingered a 2 there instead.
- Ripper Swarms got pulled from Troop choice, aren't core, can't get Objective Secured, don't count for compulsory units (but DO count for maximum for some reason), didn't get useful stat increases, and went up in cost by almost 30%
- Hive Guard got massacred, with Impaler cannons at 2/3rds range, lower Str, requiring team LoS (despite other factions not needing it), got moved from Elite to Heavy (taking up spots all our other shooting guys need), and went up by 20% despite all the nerfs
- Exocrine and Tyrannofex lost their double shooting (though they mostly got +50% of that back in their default stats, except, conspicuously, the Rupture Cannon)
- Mawloc's Terror From The Deep is, possibly, the worst it's ever been.
- Adaptives are tremendously weaker, across the board
- Nearly every Nid Stratagem that was good got pulled out of the codex

Basically, Every unit that actually saw some play in 8th edition, got nerfed in some pretty heavy way.

That being said, everything NOT on this list basically got some substantial buffs. This is because GW did not want to do a whole line of sculpts, like they did with many other armies, but they needed a reason to get Nid players to buy new models. How better than to dumpster all the good things and make the previously garbage units suddenly half-way decent?

Is it a terrible codex? I don't think so. But it's nowhere near a lot of other 9e Codexes, which DIDN'T have half of their options gutted in some way to drive up sales of the other half.

[trashcan01]

Mar 17, 2022 14:31:02 GMT parzaius said:

Basically, Every unit that actually saw some play in 8th edition, got nerfed in some pretty heavy way.

Yes. True. Except that I strongly disagree with the quoted part. 

I may be overly optimistic, but I feel like this is kind of a welcome clean slate for us. Like, throw everything you knew about the Tyranids out of the window, and start re-learning the faction.

I'm thinking that we need to get some games in to see how does it all work. (Yes, I'm aware this is the "Initial Impressions" thread). But, for now, I like the basic tools we have, now it's just a matter of mastering them. Maybe the new hip thing will be mass Gorgon Mass Rippers? Or a custom Hive fleet?

Just for the record - maybe I regret saying all this after my first match versus Tau / Custodes / Eldar list.    

[infornography]

My take is that most of it is great, but there are definitely some not great things.

We lost a good bit of the movement and deployment shenanigans that allowed us to come at enemies from all directions.
Devilgaunts and Impaler guard took such massive hits that I don't see the role for them existing anymore.
Synapse dropping to 6" is going to be SO FIDDLY!
Gaunts and Gants are overcosted and will require a lot of overlapping buffs to make good. Granted this codex has that ability, but it means using those units will require far more effort than just relying on lots of custom Warrior units instead.
Rippers no longer serve any purpose I can discern. They are terrible at everything and severely overcosted to boot!

Don't get me wrong, I am stoked about most of this codex, but it isn't ALL gumdrops and ponies.

That all said, it is AWESOME that Lictors and Deathleaper are finally good! And we have a third competent assassin in PoM. I suspect including one or more of those three will become very common.

[piersonsmuppet]

Well Exo and Tfex both saw output buffs in the 9E Codex leaks. All gun profiles from them produce more damage while also being able to move 8".

Rippers not being CORE and moved from troops makes sense with Nachmund mission rules. Spawning units that complete actions at EoT or that can gain Obj Sec from Swarmlord would have been overly strong, the relic spawning them would've been an auto-take every game.

[zimko]

I admit I'm disappointed in the gaunt/gants. I was hoping for a gant carpet but their price is just too high to effectively do that. The Tervigon is nice now but I just can't stomach 210 pts for 30 gants.

Warriors though are a standout good unit for our Troops slot.

Hormagaunts could do decently, but it requires a lot of setup that ultimately is too costly for what you get.

The Trygons did indeed go from d6 damage to 2... but they gained 5 attacks. The d6 damage has always been swingy so I like them being more consistent.

The Mawloc's terror from the deep is more powerful than I think some are giving it credit. 6" radius covers more than an entire objective and usually there's at least 1 objective that can be considered a 'home' objective. With obscuring being what it is, people tend to clump up units behind obscuring. The mawloc lets you punish your opponent for this, forcing them to either eat the mortals or expose their units to Exocrines and Warriors. I'll have to see how it does in practice but I think it'll be worth 125 pts, especially since the Mawloc himself now has 16 attacks with Ap 1.

The maleceptor and Neurothropes, as psykers, greatly improved. Each being able to cast 2 powers, know 2 powers and the buff from the Neuro can help trigger the extra mortals from the Maleceptor. Add in Zoanthropes and you have a solid anchor of psychic support and mortal wound output.

There's a lot to process, and I basically have to unlearn everything I know about tyranids to figure it out. But I think there's potential here. It's going to be complicated to play with a high skill ceiling imo.

[nbmraptor]

I'm honestly just happy that I can play my fun themed flying list, with actual troop gargs and upgraded harpies, and a smash reaper flyrant

[stormcoil]

I think overall the codex feels closer to the lore, and that is a good thing.

I am very skeptical on how this will play over time, and my test games have been real hit or miss. We lost most of our tricks that helped us score points. The new codex will be easier to play with and have less gotchas. But the lack of speed means that we will have to telegraph our moves, which means we are also going to be much easier to play against.

It is a good book for an NPC faction. Beefy stats means it feels epic when you kill them. Straightforward playstyle means that you either overpower your opponent or you lose and they will see you coming a mile away.


There are still a few good tricks left. I think a parasite of mortrex with gestation sacs is an auto include. You come out of deepstrike, spawn the rippers in the shooting phase, they don't have to be 9" away when they spawn, so then you immediately charge. Doing some measuring it looks like the rippers will need a 5" charge on the turn the parasite lands (because of the size of the base... the rippers spawn "within" not "wholly within" so most of the base can be towards the target). That is great for both tying up a back shooting unit or to have two units for behind enemy lines just for the cost of 80 points + relic.

Every list I build I feel like I'm loading up on fast attack. You need speed to get around the board and score. The parasite's of mortrex probably fill the role of our old lictors for being great little scoring pieces. However, with them being characters if you take too many you start to bleed assassinate.

Tyrannocites feel like a bit of a trap. I agree there is a skew list where you take 30 genestealers, 3 tyrannocites and fill them up with a couple screamer killers and a trygon prime with the passenger. That means when you go first you are putting about 1100 points into your opponents deployment zone. For that you go behemoth and also make your monsters obsec with lurk biomorph. But..... that list can lose hard if you go second. So it is a super unfun coin flip. When you go first you win every time. When you go second it is really tough to win.

TTS testing I have found that perhaps the most consistently effective build is just 9 carnifex with enhanced senses and HVC....at least here you have 27 s9 shots a turn. They die really fast though, so you need to know what you are doing. Then fill a lot of your other slots with warriors and fast attack for scoring.

Exocrine has changed a lot. I think at most you ever want one. Increase in durability only matters against small fire... it still goes down fast to d6+4/d3+3 damage weapons. The increase in s matters against t4, 7 and 8. Overall fewer shots and fewer buffs means it is more of an anti tank weapon now than anti elite. I have done ok with one if you spend the 10 points to make it synapse so it can operate without babysitters and still get the army buffs.

Being able to pop reinforced hive node (-1 damage) on warriors in hand to hand is probably the best strat I have found outside of opportunistic advance.  Warriors still don't do enough in shooting, but can be pretty tough in hand to hand with -1 damage.  They also hit harder in hth.  Dual bonesword seems better than lashwhip+bonesword.

This army still dies quickly if it exposes. You are slower than you used to be when you need to close the gap. You have less tricks and abilities to score. Parasite with sac is auto include. Beyond that, ymmv.

[joysan76]

we must relearn everything


if we think that we can use the old lists and play the same tactics we are fouls