Marines everywhere

[mattblowers]

Marines are killing the game. My son played in an Ironman GT (actually fell just short of GT status): 8 of the top 10 teams were Space Marines Iron Hands. My son made 6th at 3-2 with a chaos list. (I didn’t make the event because I had to do some work around the house.) All the lists have unkillable dreadnought characters (2+/4++/5+++ AND pass off wounds on a 2+.) Even top players are abandoning ship on non Space Marine armies. How could a gaming system get it so wrong even after an FAQ? Whoever is in charge of balance at GW is terrible at their job. They couldn’t be worse at without deliberately doing it. If they don’t get it sorted out it will kill the game. It nearly destroyed Warnahordes. There has been a lot of issues in the past with 40K, but this the worst I can remember since the Grey Knights era. Back then it was actually difficult to get a 40K game outside of a tournament in my area. It even drove away most of the casual players. No one wants to play games that are so lopsided before you even put something on the table. I fear that their answer will be to make something else way to powerful. It’s so bad I don’t know that they can fix it without rereleasing the SM codex. After all their promises about how 8th would be different, how balance was important, then they give us this drivel. I just don’t get it.

[sniddy]

Normally the system rights it's self - the flavour of the month gets beaten the meta moves on, marines on the other hand got a massive update and powerboost

...then everyone else got fun stuff that just doesn't compete

Lets compare

Marines have

1) Easy soup and biggest soup
2) Since the 8th edition changes, xenos vechiles do not compare as well
3) Doctarines - and super doctarines
4) One of the biggest ranges
5) Nearly all the recent releases, and all the powerful ones
6) Some of the best sratagems in the game

Nids have

1) GCS and brood brothers, so soup-lite
2) Monsterous creatures tend to cost more as they are more hybrid - our big guns, arn't that good point for point but have melee attacls
3) Nobody has anything like doctrines
4) Over the 3 groups, a fairly middling range, and quite a few duds
5) Model wise, I can't think of the last one we got
6) Stratagem wise - espeically if you include GSC - I think we're on par - if not maybe ahead in someways - mostly as I think GSC has some amazing strats

There's a reason that for the last 3 - 4 months marine lists are flying high couple that with the fact it's a low skill needed list to steer - It's a broadsword to T'au or GSC's rapier - so it is easily picked up used, and won with - and a lot of people have marine armies, so when marines are 'good' people can break out a list.

[bolzor]

Sorry to hear that. Its really saddening to know just how bad it feels when the game is thrown out of alignment.

The health of the game relies on everyone enjoying themselves and wanting to participate. I hope GW will be able to quickly correct and get things back on course before the sentiment turns too sour.

I know Marines are the big heros of this game universe and they should be good. BUT heros only really shine when the 'villains' are legitimate, compeling threats. I hope GW will give us all consideration moving forward, for the health of the hobby and its community.

[xtztxtxz]

My local club has swung heavily away from 40k & towards AoS in the last 12 months. Mainly as a combination of the hectic release schedule, multiple rules sources per faction, and casual players not willing or able to keep up with CA/FAQ changes every few months. I'm starting to think GW have dug themselves into a hole with the current approach of trying to patch over printed rules with year+ development times.

There were rumours that this summer will see 9th edition; a revision of the core rules along the same scale as AoS' in 2018. If that's true I suspect the reason we haven't seen much action on marines is due to GW being uncertain on how best to deal with them across two different rulesets.

[Hive Bahamut]

The part that worries me is they are going to ignore everything but the massive spike in Astartes sales, therefore keep chasing their tail until they have consumed themselves.

Business is business and it has become very clear over the last 2 years that 8th is strictly "reinventing the wheel" on their IP's. Astartes are OP to make sales, and won't be dialed back anytime soon.

I have always said the entry level army should be above average but hard to top with. This keeps the playerbase on their toes for NPC factions, but at least it is the same game. First Militarum, then Knights, now Astartes. The issue with the last one is no one has anything comparable. Like playing checkers against your opponents chess set. You can win... But a whole different game.

Oddly enough both Astartes players in our group dropped their Marines,or switched to another marine faction. Guess GW wins. Buying a new Astartes army was never anyone with 100+ marines plan, but NOW it is.

A shame 8th has devolved into 30k. Like that robot chicken ripping on the star wars cantina. "Any requests? *whispers* Play the same song!* Ok!"

[hivefleetkerrigan]

I was tired of facing marines even prior to the update at least 40% of my local games were against marines and it's just not fun playing against the same army over and over again.

The problem that I see is that almost everyone* has and plays space marines, so I don't think GW/other players will see this as an issue. Im hoping for GW to issue points updates in the first big FAQ, but I'm guessing they won't. There is precedence for them nerfing units that were making a he game less fun for other players in a big FAQ...

*I don't play marines. I think I'm one of the few 40k players who doesn't.

[Hive Bahamut]

Amen to that Kerrigan. GSC and Nids all the way. Dropkicked my Aeldari as soon as GSC became a real thing.

Maybe with any luck they punk swarmy a few more times in the lore and give us a Gravis/Primaris lord, called Hivelord.

[zxcsonic]

My store has shifted from 40k to Blood Bowl and Magic. At least I'm having fun with my Wood Elves...

[mattblowers]

Jan 13, 2020 0:21:19 GMT zxcsonic said:

My store has shifted from 40k to Blood Bowl and Magic. At least I'm having fun with my Wood Elves...

Magic?! Bleeck! But I love blood bowl. Great game.

[bigpig]

So you know Matt... I could see the meme. Buzz would be proud

[killercroc]

I Kinda feel the same... not even in competitive games but there is so much marine with so many combos and new special rules it's just becoming less and less fun. Like I got 3 games the last 2 weeks but I took like a 3 month break from games and just after those 3 I do feel like taking another break.

[naviedzony]

My local gaming environment is actually really diverse. Of course over half of group consists of SM plauers of all kinds and flavors, including chaos versions. But it's not like all of them are playing Iron Hands now. People paint them as one chapter and stick to it, so there is a lot of Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Ultramarines of course and even some Ravenguards, Space Wolfs and Grey Knights. I play at least one game a week and since new marines dropped I encountered Iron Hands only once, so maybe I'm lucky and maybe my local meta just isn't so bad. And of course there are at least 3 other Tyranid players, who play very often (including one very competetive Tyranid player), they all own a little GSC force, one pure GSC player, a bunch of Eldar and Dark Eldar guys, sh*tload of Tau (sadly for me ), a lot of Knights, very few Daemons players, mainly Nurgle. And Astra Militarum everywhere you look.

[Rahab]

This isn't just a problem for competitive play either. It's difficult for a marginally cohesive Space Marine list to pull its punches enough to have a fun game in a soft meta.

Even among friends, I've never been one to ask an opponent not to use a model that they've taken the time to paint just because it's hard for me to deal with. But if I was, there still doesn't seem to be many poor choices for Astartes players. This imbalance isn't in anyone's best interest in the long run.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Sounds like a good amount of diversity for non-marine factions. That being said, I generally consider all marines (imperium and chaos) to be a similar game. Theyre still marines, just a different flavor of marines.

[kazetanade]

Different Highs and Different Lows - I'd consider that different enough to have a game around.