Marines everywhere

[Brood Brother]

Jan 12, 2020 17:18:03 GMT Hive Bahamut said:

The part that worries me is they are going to ignore everything but the massive spike in Astartes sales, therefore keep chasing their tail until they have consumed themselves.

Business is business and it has become very clear over the last 2 years that 8th is strictly "reinventing the wheel" on their IP's. Astartes are OP to make sales, and won't be dialed back anytime soon.

I have always said the entry level army should be above average but hard to top with. This keeps the playerbase on their toes for NPC factions, but at least it is the same game. First Militarum, then Knights, now Astartes. The issue with the last one is no one has anything comparable. Like playing checkers against your opponents chess set. You can win... But a whole different game.

Oddly enough both Astartes players in our group dropped their Marines,or switched to another marine faction. Guess GW wins. Buying a new Astartes army was never anyone with 100+ marines plan, but NOW it is.

A shame 8th has devolved into 30k. Like that robot chicken ripping on the star wars cantina. "Any requests? *whispers* Play the same song!* Ok!"

This is very much my concern as well. Space Marines have rarely been Top Tier, but they've always sold well. Now they have Marine players rebuying their whole faction more or less (Primaris) and 'finally' being a top tier army, nevermind that that is even more absurd than 5th edition Grey Knights, will all be translating into buckets more cash. I think what's also annoying about this situation is that because the majority of people play, or at least have access to Marines, the complaining this would generate if it was Tau/Eldar/any non-Marine army has been comparatively weak. 8th has brought about no lack of white knight shills, but when most of them play Marines anyway, there's not quite the ruckus that something of Iron Hands absurdity would cause. Hell, I think there was more complaining about Imperial Guard at the start of 8th in 'general' 40k forums and the like than there's been about Marines... that is to say, plenty of it, but not as much as you'd expect.

Part of me does sometimes wonder if GW wishes it could scrap non-Marine factions and just make Horus Heresy 2.0. My fear is that all we're going to see now is even MORE Marine releases, of which the argument of Chaos/Xenos players will continue to be shot down by the overwhelming number of Marine players using the same tired arguments.

[swarm492]

I'm not concerned. It effects my games now yes but I've been doing this long enough to know things shift, and I know alot of you have been in the hobby longer than me. If it's not marines it's eldar soup, or taudar, or necrons flyer spam, or leafblower lists, or whatever.

NOW I will admit I avoid tournaments, so I solve alot of the problem right there. I simply play friendly pick up games. I know alot of you enjoy that element but it can be great to step away. Perhaps build a narrative campaign at your local stores.

[dranzyl]

If past history is any indicator then yes marines are going to get even stronger since they usually get a third update before the and of an edition (plus i dont think they have finished making new primaris yet).

Sure the highs and lows of the meta arent a new thing and not likely to end any time soon. But a few things to consider, the impact of an imbalance relates to its size, its prevalence and its uniqueness. Marines are really everywhere (poster boys and all), really above the power lvl curve and dont really have any competition for the power creep throne (the whole 'if everything is op, then nothing is' thing).

I meam sure its nothing new but if people feel disinclined to play it is a real issue.

[1b2a]

Jan 12, 2020 13:38:01 GMT mattblowers said:

Marines are killing the game. My son played in an Ironman GT (actually fell just short of GT status): 8 of the top 10 teams were Space Marines Iron Hands. My son made 6th at 3-2 with a chaos list. (I didn’t make the event because I had to do some work around the house.) All the lists have unkillable dreadnought characters (2+/4++/5+++ AND pass off wounds on a 2+.) Even top players are abandoning ship on non Space Marine armies. How could a gaming system get it so wrong even after an FAQ? Whoever is in charge of balance at GW is terrible at their job. They couldn’t be worse at without deliberately doing it. If they don’t get it sorted out it will kill the game. It nearly destroyed Warnahordes. There has been a lot of issues in the past with 40K, but this the worst I can remember since the Grey Knights era. Back then it was actually difficult to get a 40K game outside of a tournament in my area. It even drove away most of the casual players. No one wants to play games that are so lopsided before you even put something on the table. I fear that their answer will be to make something else way to powerful. It’s so bad I don’t know that they can fix it without rereleasing the SM codex. After all their promises about how 8th would be different, how balance was important, then they give us this drivel. I just don’t get it.

Weren't you telling me to stop crying like every time I was making these points? Well stop crying and adapt. JK I'm not that petty. Complain to GW endlesslessly, they think so little of tyranids (BoB is proof of this), that they need to know that there's a problem.

[kazetanade]

Pretty sure that's me more than matt, and my opinion didn't change too much. I just wish I was on sneggys level, since he took #2 at Caledonian Uprising apparently and probably has a great shot at the LVO. Kudos to him and crossing fingers for a Nids victory!

[mule]

90% sure chaos is going to be top tables with 2-3 lord of skulls discolords and warp talons.

[Brood Brother]

Jan 14, 2020 13:06:43 GMT swarm492 said:

I'm not concerned. It effects my games now yes but I've been doing this long enough to know things shift, and I know alot of you have been in the hobby longer than me. If it's not marines it's eldar soup, or taudar, or necrons flyer spam, or leafblower lists, or whatever.

NOW I will admit I avoid tournaments, so I solve alot of the problem right there. I simply play friendly pick up games. I know alot of you enjoy that element but it can be great to step away. Perhaps build a narrative campaign at your local stores.

I think the difference is that this is the first time in a long, long, long while that Space Marines have actually been Top Tier (unless you count Grey Knights back in 5th). Even then, they already had a big showing at tournaments just because... well, everybody has a Space Marine collection. When most non-tournament players are already packin' Astartes but now the "I have no problem dumping £1000 on the FoTM" tournament players are doing it too, it's only driving Marine sales further. GW in their continued lack of wisdom will likely see this as another excuse for, "Welp, Marines are selling better than ever and everything else less... guess it's time for MORE Marines!"

[N.I.B.]

Yeah marines were whipping boys for years, post-GK glory days. Xenos (mostly Eldar but also Tau) dominated for a long time. I don't mind Marines so much, but I do hate Knights. They are still crutches that shouldn't be allowed outside Apocalypse games.

[Master Chief]

At the moment I am playing SWs, but I can considered aswell a Space Marines, as 80% of my current 2k list is primaris (Repulsors Executioners and Invictor Tactical Warsuits).

What I can notice is that the new primaris stuff is just brutal!

That stuff can easily forgive some mistakes, while with nids at the first mistake you might lose a game, even if that is just a small mistake

On the contrary with that Space Wolves Primaris list, I still have to be even far from losing a game...

[hiveoverall]

Jan 15, 2020 14:26:05 GMT N.I.B. said:

Yeah marines were whipping boys for years, post-GK glory days. Xenos (mostly Eldar but also Tau) dominated for a long time. I don't mind Marines so much, but I do hate Knights. They are still crutches that shouldn't be allowed outside Apocalypse games.

I think knights really aren't an issue anymore for many armies. They just lack resistance and board control (well played movement blocks can wreck their day), without quite dishing out enough firepower.

OK so they can still do a number on nid armies (thoses without rock saw acolytes), but I mean:

Orks wreck em easy (i know that very well as i routinely destroy IK armies where I play, it takes no skill at all with the SSAG + other SAGs and other stuff like the infamous 33 point smasha)

Marines also (no suprise though)

Tau

Ad mech

Necrons I'd imagine have a field day now with heavy destroyers going down in poins with CA

Eldar flyers I heard struggle though I cannot understand why (how can knights land enough shots ?).

Chaos I have no clue

In fact my question would be: who still has a hard time vs IKs except "pure nids" ?

[N.I.B.]

Jan 15, 2020 15:08:24 GMT hiveoverall said:

I think knights really aren't an issue anymore for many armies.

I don't play many armies, I play nids.

[Master Chief]

Jan 15, 2020 15:11:00 GMT N.I.B. said:

Jan 15, 2020 15:08:24 GMT hiveoverall said:

I think knights really aren't an issue anymore for many armies.

I don't play many armies, I play nids.

Well this is touching nids indirectly, as maybe you'll see less knights on the table.

If not, Gant carpets and biovores are a knight's nightmare.

[conquest]

When I was speaking with my local GK player (he is now IH of course). I told him "of course they'll give them doctrines, they gave BA doctrines and they didnt need them." He just dismisses it and says "nah they'd never do that, its too OP."

Now GKs have "psyker doctrines" oooooOoOOOH so creative!

10/10 Space Wolves are next to get doctrines and there is no creative or writing process for their rules

[killercroc]

Awoo doctrines incoming.

[garg]

I expect GW to nerf a few of the most broken marine things in the big FAQ in April. They did the same to Ynnari and the castellan last year. They may still be top dog afterwards but closer to the rest of the pack. Either that or they hint at the creation of a new edition.

I suspect that marine sales are tapering off. The bandwagon fotm players have surely bought most of their stuff and regular marine players have had time to add the few new units they need​.