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Post by xetemara on Dec 9, 2019 7:13:43 GMT
Im not naive thinking we'll get another book. We will. I promise. And I only said MAYBE it will be better. But trust me i have 0 faith that GW will get anything right except by pure accident and they will be quick to ruin it even if they do. One could assume we'd be one of the first factions catered to a new codex on the 9th as we were the first on the 8th. Oh sweet summer child me. |
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Post by No One on Dec 9, 2019 10:04:12 GMT
as we were the first on the 8th. No we weren't: SM was first, then CSM. Then GK, ad mech, DG, IG and Eldar. Even if we go in order (still one of the early ones: if we're not in order...who wants to bet GW would be nice?), that's I think ~6 months for PA (plus anything more they feel the need to throw in/break between release schedules), then another 5 months for each Codex, unless they start doing 2 per month, which wouldn't bode well for quality. TL;DR Expecting a Codex (at some point) is reasonable. Next year? Don't hold your breath. |
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Post by xetemara on Dec 9, 2019 10:34:40 GMT
as we were the first on the 8th. No we weren't: SM was first, then CSM. Then GK, ad mech, DG, IG and Eldar. TL;DR Expecting a Codex (at some point) is reasonable. Next year? Don't hold your breath. First, not first ... Mmkayy. I am not expecting them to drop us a bone for next couple of years at least. |
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Post by garg on Dec 9, 2019 10:56:07 GMT
The fact that SM didn't really get anything in CA is a point against the more extreme money grabbing GW view (they make something super powerful to sell models then nerf them into the ground as a pre planned strategy).
Whatever about a 3 year release plan I'm sure GW do have dates planned at least 12m ahead.
There were some rumours around sitting the SM releases that testers had said stuff was op. Perhaps SM was behind schedule and they couldn't afford to push it back because it'd have a knock on effect on the supplements and PAs.
I imagine they want to keep books spread out to make the most sales.
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Post by able on Dec 9, 2019 13:03:40 GMT
Johnny is the deckbuilder, the theorycrafter. Johnny is Tzeentch's avatar. He has this elaborate plan that requires him to roll 7 or more on 2d6 eleven times in a row, but man when it does, the whole club will be amazed by the thought behind it. Johnny only cares to win one match every 2 years, as long as THE PLAN works to perfection. Johnny prefers spending 6 nights of the week planning and building lists with super combos rather than playing the game itself. For the sake of Johnny, the game needs to provide complex rules, incomplete units that require heavy thought and careful, sometimes painful planning and half arsed abilities that MIGHT, just maybe, work when you combine it with 14 other mediocre ones. In order to keep Johnny happy, GW makes the Tyranids for example. Tyranids is not a Johnny army, precisely the opposite. We have basically no functional combos that we can plan a whole army around*, and can only win by playing well on the day. Our faction trait has an easily reached ceiling (every unit always in synapse) that cannot combo further. Between the formation rules, our lack of variety in HQ units, and the requirement to provide synapse our lists are extremely constrained. On top of that, what buffs we have that could conceivably be combo-ed are keyword locked and pretty dull, meaning there are no obscure combinations for Johnny to plan around. Even our deep strike is extremely constrained, because we can't deep strike a character with our infantry. If we want to deep strike and aura buff, we need to pay a premium. Tyranids is in a forth category, I'll call him Roger: Roger doesn't really like list building at all, and would much rather think on their feet. Where Spike likes winning and Johnny likes planning, Roger likes playing. He likes to win by punishing that the harpy could fly over, charge a scout squad and pile into the hellblasters because there was a gap just big enough, while stopping a knight from getting into combat because there was a spore mine where it needed to move to. They might prepare as much as Johnny, but more satisfying to him than the super combo is using an obscure tactic that will only be relevant every hundred games. *Swarmy is a huge boon to stealer lists, but your win condition is good use of stealers with no additional force multipliers; Swarmy slingshot is only step one. Flyrant lists worked because flyrants are good, not because they combo well. The "DS everything" plan is not exactly elaborate and does not play nice with any of our synergies. |
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Post by 1b2a on Dec 9, 2019 18:19:53 GMT
Honestly some noobie must have been given the tyranids book to write, and it happened independently of the SM ones. The top writers went crazy with their seniority, the noobies did side-grades, or flat out downgrades. The amount of single model hive traits and stratagems, conditional stratagems is astonishing. They're morons. They have to know or else nothing will change. If the iron hands collective (please do not swear) came out with nerfs than nids can get a 10% boost.
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Post by 1b2a on Dec 9, 2019 18:34:56 GMT
Im not naive thinking we'll get another book. We will. I promise. And I only said MAYBE it will be better. But trust me i have 0 faith that GW will get anything right except by pure accident and they will be quick to ruin it even if they do. We have to mass complain and antagonize all of GWs social media en-masse now so they understand that they have to pay attention |
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Post by xetemara on Dec 9, 2019 23:26:08 GMT
Im not naive thinking we'll get another book. We will. I promise. And I only said MAYBE it will be better. But trust me i have 0 faith that GW will get anything right except by pure accident and they will be quick to ruin it even if they do. We have to mass complain and antagonize all of GWs social media en-masse now so they understand that they have to pay attention Yeah let's do this! People are lazy (I know I am) and don't want to spend ton of time writing these messages. We need a bot, that collects 10 out of 100 complains (we can all provide the complains), randomises their order to form a nice tight rant that can be copy pasted easily to GW socials. Boom! |
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Post by dotcomee on Dec 10, 2019 0:46:01 GMT
I've won with Tyranids even prior to the changes, so what? Everybody gets lucky, other opponents also make mistakes. The game is not completely out of whack, it's just obviously unbalanced.
Think about all the books / rules they have published for Imperium over the last two years. The deep strike and rule of 3 were sweeping changes that was pretty much directly targeted at Tyranids. Another example was when the GSC codex came out, about a month later, the Phobos armor was introduced for SM which was basically a direct counter to the GSC deep striking.
~50% of the new rules go to Imperium, ~25% go to Chaos, then the remaining ~25% go to the Xenos factions.
I mean, if you are happy playing a competitive game that way, go for it.
Personally, I feel like GW scammed me by selling me Tyranids. It was a bait and switch because the rules / points have changed so much my armies that I started with 2 years ago are no longer valid or really fun to play. I bought into the game early in 8th and now I deeply regret it.
GW may have made a lot of Imperium players happy, but they lost an extremely well paying Xenos customer for life.
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Post by bolzor on Dec 10, 2019 2:01:28 GMT
And if you're mad after 8th edition then you'd be inconsolable coming from even deeper throwback eras. Ironically, the Tyranids have devolved into something entirely different since the "good ol' days"(TM) that originally had me so enthralled with them. They used to be genuinely scary! They had completely alien rules with weaponry and tactics that were almost entirely unique to the faction - it spoke to them being so different from anything else the Imperium had seen that it was often chaotic to even engage with them. Their munitions were living creatures and caustic chemicals that may not have been very useful against armor but inflicted horrific effects against fleshy bits. Their swarms were these incohessive amalgams of organisms that came rolling across the landscape charging in such unison that defenders found it difficult to pick out targets. Shock assault organisms were horrendously destructive but needed time to close the distance and wreak havoc. The awesome lynchpin synapse creatures were there to marshal these nightmares and ensure that they fought at an unnatural ferocity while driven by the gestalt consciousness of a timeless and unknowable entity. Sweeet Emperor, it was riveting!
40k has lost a lot of heart and the Tyranids, demoted from existential threat to low-tier 'jack of all trades' NPC army, is one of many indicators of that. I still love the hobby and I will still play but I will always look back on early editions with a fondness for what they were able to achieve for a ludo-narrative experience.
I will also refuse to acknowledge the reality that my rose tinted glasses and the time dilation of memory meant that those games were brutally long to play and sometimes prohibitively argumentative. They had heart!
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 10, 2019 3:27:36 GMT
I've won with Tyranids even prior to the changes, so what? Everybody gets lucky, other opponents also make mistakes. The game is not completely out of whack, it's just obviously unbalanced. Think about all the books / rules they have published for Imperium over the last two years. The deep strike and rule of 3 were sweeping changes that was pretty much directly targeted at Tyranids. Another example was when the GSC codex came out, about a month later, the Phobos armor was introduced for SM which was basically a direct counter to the GSC deep striking. ~50% of the new rules go to Imperium, ~25% go to Chaos, then the remaining ~25% go to the Xenos factions. I mean, if you are happy playing a competitive game that way, go for it. Personally, I feel like GW scammed me by selling me Tyranids. It was a bait and switch because the rules / points have changed so much my armies that I started with 2 years ago are no longer valid or really fun to play. I bought into the game early in 8th and now I deeply regret it. GW may have made a lot of Imperium players happy, but they lost an extremely well paying Xenos customer for life. One of the basic tenets of this hobby is not to buy anything based on its power level. The strength of something changes rapidly (not so rapidly before, but not permanent) and you don't want to get stuck with something you dislike but bought because it was powerful. I would also like to remind others that rule of 3 and Smite blocking were not made to impact tyranids only - it was unhealthy and unfun for the game to have masses of 1 unit only, Nids were the greatest perpetrator of that due to the Jack status of Flyrants. Smite chains are devestating, and having armies have easy access to that and super smites via Malefic Lords, Tsons, GK - that would ruin games in short order with very little counterplay. Turn 1 deepstrike restrictions was made to stop players uninterractable alphastrikes. Honestly speaking I am miffed they gave this to drop pods, I don't even understand why, but overall other than Grav drops I don't even see SM using drop pods anyway. The rules balance other than these slights like Flyrant points wings jump and T1 DS given to the wrong faction, has been decent. The really big slap to everyone has been this supplement (please do not swear) for SM, but SM were in such a bad place before that, I am not inclined to say "urrrrrr posterrr boiiiiis no fair". Just wait it out - are peoples memories only 6 months long? |
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Post by hivemind03 on Dec 10, 2019 5:02:19 GMT
And if you're mad after 8th edition then you'd be inconsolable coming from even deeper throwback eras. Ironically, the Tyranids have devolved into something entirely different since the "good ol' days"(TM) that originally had me so enthralled with them. They used to be genuinely scary! They had completely alien rules with weaponry and tactics that were almost entirely unique to the faction - it spoke to them being so different from anything else the Imperium had seen that it was often chaotic to even engage with them. Their munitions were living creatures and caustic chemicals that may not have been very useful against armor but inflicted horrific effects against fleshy bits. Their swarms were these incohessive amalgams of organisms that came rolling across the landscape charging in such unison that defenders found it difficult to pick out targets. Shock assault organisms were horrendously destructive but needed time to close the distance and wreak havoc. The awesome lynchpin synapse creatures were there to marshal these nightmares and ensure that they fought at an unnatural ferocity while driven by the gestalt consciousness of a timeless and unknowable entity. Sweeet Emperor, it was riveting! 40k has lost a lot of heart and the Tyranids, demoted from existential threat to low-tier 'jack of all trades' NPC army, is one of many indicators of that. I still love the hobby and I will still play but I will always look back on early editions with a fondness for what they were able to achieve for a ludo-narrative experience. I will also refuse to acknowledge the reality that my rose tinted glasses and the time dilation of memory meant that those games were brutally long to play and sometimes prohibitively argumentative. They had heart! Most games ive played over long periods of time have this issue where factions lose their core identity as more and more stuff is added to the game. It's natural, but I feel that tyranids have been severely mismanaged from a design perspective for a very very long time. Their identity has been violently thrashed about since the simpler 3rd edition days I started in. It's sad. To me, all the other xenos armies look like they have retained their flavor over the years much better than Tyranids. Orks still look and feel exactly like orks did when I started. Eldar is almost exactly the same to me. Tau has actually become more Tau-like with their new giant mecha. Im just super disenchanted with Tyranids right now, and I'm worried for the future of the Cult, which I still love despite ongoing changes... |
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Post by xetemara on Dec 10, 2019 7:40:12 GMT
They used to be genuinely scary! They had completely alien rules with weaponry and tactics that were almost entirely unique to the faction - it spoke to them being so different from anything else the Imperium had seen that it was often chaotic to even engage with them. Their munitions were living creatures and caustic chemicals that may not have been very useful against armor but inflicted horrific effects against fleshy bits. Their swarms were these incohessive amalgams of organisms that came rolling across the landscape charging in such unison that defenders found it difficult to pick out targets. Shock assault organisms were horrendously destructive but needed time to close the distance and wreak havoc. The awesome lynchpin synapse creatures were there to marshal these nightmares and ensure that they fought at an unnatural ferocity while driven by the gestalt consciousness of a timeless and unknowable entity. Sweeet Emperor, it was riveting! Never thought Tyranids could be so poetic, almost pastoral. |
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Post by Master Chief on Dec 10, 2019 9:45:53 GMT
I honestly still love tyranids and I like to play them on their own, with no allies, no GSC.
I like to make my own lists and strategies work, refine them and outplayed my opponents on the table.
And for me this is extremely satisfying.
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Post by xenith on Dec 10, 2019 12:47:21 GMT
I just hope by then GW realizes that re-roll auras are not fun or interesting Judging by the fact they put a bunch of them for BA and Nids in BoB, I'd say this isnt going to happen. |
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