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Post by dc0315 on Dec 8, 2019 23:37:04 GMT
Toxicrene or exocrine in a pod vs marines? Hmmm. Taking 2 tcytes is overkill imho. Those and warriors for the wound for 3d6 chargeis too important for the fex, that or some dlyrants to charge first, if it survives t1, though tge maleceptor helps with that. Bokters wound it on 6s now!
I think the haruspex with prey sight and strat murders much more however the fact it cant trap a unit in cc like the toxi helps the toxi alot. If u take the toxi as kraken, it can trap 5 different units per game, tyen add in stealers now and thats epicccc. Oh and lictor to stop overwatch from a n executioner 😱😱
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 9, 2019 6:34:53 GMT
YOU SHOULD NEVER. NEVER. NEVER EVER EVER, attempt to charge a Repulsor from deepstrike.
Exo > Toxi from deepstrike if one, but 2 is legit. Prob is Toxi can't get 3d6 8" reroll otherwise it's a beautiful double Flyrant replacement.
In my mind a competitive list probably looks like :
1 x Kraken SL GS Male
2 x Kraken Flyrants
1 x Kronos Flyrant
1 x Kronos Exocrene
Troops troops troops. Maybe a HG somewhere.
We can also have a few variations of list, but I thin that will be the core cookie cutter.
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Post by gigasnail on Dec 9, 2019 6:38:53 GMT
yeah the itemization of some units is beyond baffling. CC monsters with no AG, but i can get it on my tfex? wtf, over.
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Post by xtztxtxz on Dec 9, 2019 10:31:13 GMT
yeah the itemization of some units is beyond baffling. CC monsters with no AG, but i can get it on my tfex? wtf, over. Yeah it's a holdover from the old wysiwyg days; the options are based on which kits they bothered to put the AG/TS bits in. Pretty dumb considering anyone who cares if a model has the appropriate fleshy sacs glued on the right places is someone you probably never want to play against. YOU SHOULD NEVER. NEVER. NEVER EVER EVER, attempt to charge a Repulsor from deepstrike. Exo > Toxi from deepstrike if one, but 2 is legit. Prob is Toxi can't get 3d6 8" reroll otherwise it's a beautiful double Flyrant replacement. In my mind a competitive list probably looks like : 1 x Kraken SL GS Male 2 x Kraken Flyrants 1 x Kronos Flyrant 1 x Kronos Exocrene Troops troops troops. Maybe a HG somewhere. We can also have a few variations of list, but I thin that will be the core cookie cutter. IMO Toxicrenes will be the unit getting the most mileage from a Swarmlord boost. Even without AG they're quick enough for a turn 1 charge, and launching them into a screen with that new stratagem on hand means they're fairly safe from being left out in the open. Then in your next turn if the screen isn't dead yet, use the Kraken trait to fall back and charge something else. What's the reasoning behind the Kronos Flyrant there? It'll want to be as mobile as possible and won't benefit from the hive fleet trait. Why not a Neurothrope instead? |
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Post by hiveoverall on Dec 9, 2019 10:46:43 GMT
yeah the itemization of some units is beyond baffling. CC monsters with no AG, but i can get it on my tfex? wtf, over. Yeah you'd think the hivemind has eaten Mork and Gork mushrooms (Orks are the only ones who should do ransom stuff like that). AGlands should be possible to give to any CC monster/infantry. How stuff is supposed to adapt to situations. So espeically now woth repul/impulsors, AG should be mutated in every tyranid creature in need of it, surely ?? GW at it's worst, again... |
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 9, 2019 11:31:43 GMT
yeah the itemization of some units is beyond baffling. CC monsters with no AG, but i can get it on my tfex? wtf, over. Yeah it's a holdover from the old wysiwyg days; the options are based on which kits they bothered to put the AG/TS bits in. Pretty dumb considering anyone who cares if a model has the appropriate fleshy sacs glued on the right places is someone you probably never want to play against. YOU SHOULD NEVER. NEVER. NEVER EVER EVER, attempt to charge a Repulsor from deepstrike. Exo > Toxi from deepstrike if one, but 2 is legit. Prob is Toxi can't get 3d6 8" reroll otherwise it's a beautiful double Flyrant replacement. In my mind a competitive list probably looks like : 1 x Kraken SL GS Male 2 x Kraken Flyrants 1 x Kronos Flyrant 1 x Kronos Exocrene Troops troops troops. Maybe a HG somewhere. We can also have a few variations of list, but I thin that will be the core cookie cutter. IMO Toxicrenes will be the unit getting the most mileage from a Swarmlord boost. Even without AG they're quick enough for a turn 1 charge, and launching them into a screen with that new stratagem on hand means they're fairly safe from being left out in the open. Then in your next turn if the screen isn't dead yet, use the Kraken trait to fall back and charge something else. What's the reasoning behind the Kronos Flyrant there? It'll want to be as mobile as possible and won't benefit from the hive fleet trait. Why not a Neurothrope instead? Kronos WLT! Hahaha... I'm actually being a bit more than half serious. Psykers are making a huge comeback now that Knights are not the main list - most everything else in the game requires some psychic support. Kronos WLT Flyrant forces almost every Psyker in the game to eat that debuff. Then there's that relic which is pretty bad 90% of the time, but will be absolutely screwy that 10% of the time - one shorting good invul bad save characters like in Aeldari range, Daemons, and doing OK against Smashcaps. Its also super easy to remove from the list if you don't like it. Can fit in that GSC Batt to dial up some damage. |
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Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 9, 2019 11:41:36 GMT
Yeah it's a holdover from the old wysiwyg days; the options are based on which kits they bothered to put the AG/TS bits in. Pretty dumb considering anyone who cares if a model has the appropriate fleshy sacs glued on the right places is someone you probably never want to play against. IMO Toxicrenes will be the unit getting the most mileage from a Swarmlord boost. Even without AG they're quick enough for a turn 1 charge, and launching them into a screen with that new stratagem on hand means they're fairly safe from being left out in the open. Then in your next turn if the screen isn't dead yet, use the Kraken trait to fall back and charge something else. What's the reasoning behind the Kronos Flyrant there? It'll want to be as mobile as possible and won't benefit from the hive fleet trait. Why not a Neurothrope instead? Kronos WLT! Hahaha... I'm actually being a bit more than half serious. Psykers are making a huge comeback now that Knights are not the main list - most everything else in the game requires some psychic support. Kronos WLT Flyrant forces almost every Psyker in the game to eat that debuff. Then there's that relic which is pretty bad 90% of the time, but will be absolutely screwy that 10% of the time - one shorting good invul bad save characters like in Aeldari range, Daemons, and doing OK against Smashcaps. Its also super easy to remove from the list if you don't like it. Can fit in that GSC Batt to dial up some damage. A single kronos biovore + the deepest shadow is enough to ruin a psyker's day when you need to do so. No need to bother with warlords if you ask me. |
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Post by mule on Dec 9, 2019 14:15:45 GMT
yeah the itemization of some units is beyond baffling. CC monsters with no AG, but i can get it on my tfex? wtf, over. Yeah it's a holdover from the old wysiwyg days; the options are based on which kits they bothered to put the AG/TS bits in. Pretty dumb considering anyone who cares if a model has the appropriate fleshy sacs glued on the right places is someone you probably never want to play against. YOU SHOULD NEVER. NEVER. NEVER EVER EVER, attempt to charge a Repulsor from deepstrike. Exo > Toxi from deepstrike if one, but 2 is legit. Prob is Toxi can't get 3d6 8" reroll otherwise it's a beautiful double Flyrant replacement. In my mind a competitive list probably looks like : 1 x Kraken SL GS Male 2 x Kraken Flyrants 1 x Kronos Flyrant 1 x Kronos Exocrene Troops troops troops. Maybe a HG somewhere. We can also have a few variations of list, but I thin that will be the core cookie cutter. IMO Toxicrenes will be the unit getting the most mileage from a Swarmlord boost. Even without AG they're quick enough for a turn 1 charge, and launching them into a screen with that new stratagem on hand means they're fairly safe from being left out in the open. Then in your next turn if the screen isn't dead yet, use the Kraken trait to fall back and charge something else. What's the reasoning behind the Kronos Flyrant there? It'll want to be as mobile as possible and won't benefit from the hive fleet trait. Why not a Neurothrope instead? Id just paint feet or claws differently if things have ag/ts |
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Post by calbanite on Dec 9, 2019 14:22:25 GMT
Exocrine did soooo much work in my game last night.
5++ and double degradation
Kronos / Symbiostorm / Pathogenic Slime
Vaporized so many Aggressors I felt bad. Deployed outside LOS turn 1 and popped out T2 and used the Symbiotic Devastation strat to fire at full effect.
Allowed my Genestealers to charge from outside LOS with Synaptic Lure to negate a lot of the Ultramarines FtGG overwatch since the brick wall of Aggressors was toasted
10/10 will run again
Edit: Also I felt bad for his Guilliman who got his face pushed in with 3 Smites and a Psychic Scream while he was trying to chop through Genestealers.
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tinopener
Gaunt
Tanks and power armour are just fancy tins.
Posts: 11
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Post by tinopener on Dec 9, 2019 16:23:16 GMT
Exocrine did soooo much work in my game last night. 5++ and double degradation Kronos / Symbiostorm / Pathogenic Slime Vaporized so many Aggressors I felt bad. Deployed outside LOS turn 1 and popped out T2 and used the Symbiotic Devastation strat to fire at full effect. Allowed my Genestealers to charge from outside LOS with Synaptic Lure to negate a lot of the Ultramarines FtGG overwatch since the brick wall of Aggressors was toasted 10/10 will run again Edit: Also I felt bad for his Guilliman who got his face pushed in with 3 Smites and a Psychic Scream while he was trying to chop through Genestealers. Nice! This makes me really happy. Would you mind to elaborate? Won't be able to play myself until after Christmas. |
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Post by dc0315 on Dec 9, 2019 16:24:19 GMT
YOU SHOULD NEVER. NEVER. NEVER EVER EVER, attempt to charge a Repulsor from deepstrike. Exo > Toxi from deepstrike if one, but 2 is legit. Prob is Toxi can't get 3d6 8" reroll otherwise it's a beautiful double Flyrant replacement. In my mind a competitive list probably looks like : 1 x Kraken SL GS Male 2 x Kraken Flyrants 1 x Kronos Flyrant 1 x Kronos Exocrene Troops troops troops. Maybe a HG somewhere. We can also have a few variations of list, but I thin that will be the core cookie cutter. What so you mean if 1 but 2 is legit? Toxi can walk uo the table with the 5++ physiology and next to a maleceptor. However if u have enough synapse shooting its fairly easy to get it to 3d6 charge. And u declare the charge on a unit nearby to an executuiner not the executioner itself because of the -2, i dont need to kill it i simply need to tag it, then trap it |
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Post by calbanite on Dec 9, 2019 16:47:46 GMT
Was average 16 hits with the Exocrine Kronos combo
Reroll 1's from Kronos
Exocrine gets +1 to hit if stationary (use the strat to make him count as not moved)
Kronos Symbiostorm says hit rolls of 6+ so the Exocrine +1 to hit makes extra hits happen on 5's and 6's
I still wouldn't use it for heavy T8 targets but that's what OOE, Swarmy, and Give Guard are for
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Post by mule on Dec 9, 2019 17:11:59 GMT
Was average 16 hits with the Exocrine Kronos combo Reroll 1's from Kronos Exocrine gets +1 to hit if stationary (use the strat to make him count as not moved) Kronos Symbiostorm says hit rolls of 6+ so the Exocrine +1 to hit makes extra hits happen on 5's and 6's I still wouldn't use it for heavy T8 targets but that's what OOE, Swarmy, and Give Guard are for I'd still bring 2 tcyte just in case someone deploys important stuff castled up in a corner. Tcyte basically guarantee's the shots on the stuff you want. But yeah it's strong. |
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 9, 2019 17:29:34 GMT
What so you mean if 1 but 2 is legit? Toxi can walk uo the table with the 5++ physiology and next to a maleceptor. However if u have enough synapse shooting its fairly easy to get it to 3d6 charge. And u declare the charge on a unit nearby to an executuiner not the executioner itself because of the -2, i dont need to kill it i simply need to tag it, then trap it If you're deepstriking with only 1 Pod, then you want to DS the Exocrene over the Toxi. But deepstriking both with 2 pods is legit. Some people have brought up Slingshotting the Toxicrene up the table with the SL - it is perfectly workable. Why I am never in favour of this is because the SL himself is exposed when you do this, and he's very easy to shoot off the table when he's a focus target (contrary to focusing a single Flyrant off the table, the value loss of a single Flyrant dying is small compared to the Swarmlord dying, since he hits like a bit of a powerhouse himself). The best players of GS Sling not only use him to launch things into the enemy face, but also to extract value from SL himself, which you can with Metabolic Overdrive putting him into cover with GS spread-eagle around the map to catch his 6" barking range. With a Maleceptor or a Toxicrene? If he doesnt make it to cover, you're gonna have to sit the SL in the open to launch him forward. You should never declare a Repulsor as a charge target out of deepstrike, and the only unit that can trap it is the Toxicrene, which means you need to get the Toxicrene into the Repulsor. I mean, when I face Repulsors they're usually on buildings if they can be, dunno about you but my Toxicrene doesnt charge up buildings, so charging the Repulsor was never the plan to begin with. The pile in and tag is of course great if they left themselves in that position though... There is a bit of a fallacy where we assume our opponents "play perfectly" - but I think it's a bigger fallacy to assume our opponents will make specific mistakes. We should be capable of capitalizing, but not hedging our bets on it to win. Having a Toxicrene that can survive his trip uptown would be great. In my mind, what the "ideal" counterplay looks like: going first, getting to shoot into the Toxicrene's gangly tentacles that cant be hidden to either kill it outright or wound it bad enough that it can be easily dispatched by me next turn, and move on to something else. Toxi moves up unhindered because of the 5++ double wounds, gets into one of my scouts - that's ok. I anticipate the big move and either leave my SmashCap nearby enough to Heroic Intervention in and smash the Toxicrene's face, or I Transhuman the Scouts to deny the Toxicrene that huge Overrun + Adrenaline Surge combo pile into the rest of my army. I now have an exposed Swarmlord to utterly (please do not swear) on before his T2 chargers come in. Of course, if we're facing Tau, it's a different story. Stopping a single Riptide from getting away is a HUGE deal since you cut nearly 25%? of the enemy's output. Likewise Aeldari actually have an extremely difficult time dealing with this, since they dont usually carry all that much melee. As long as you survive the Mortal Wound Generating Factory, you have a good chance of just wrecking their face in. Their main advantage has always been FLY, and if we can negate that, things get super dicey for them. Of course, my Aeldari lists usually have some form of melee in them, so I'm less worried personally, but most Aeldari lists dont like to punch faces. I got no feel for Necrons, but I'm assuming it's just a cakewalk if you get the Toxicrene into it. Here's the one problem we need to respect for Mr Toxic - it's a roll of 3+. How many times have we done a 3+ rr and failed? If our gameplan revolves around this ability, and it fails , we've just burnt CP and more CP, and they just walk away, now putting us in a dire situation. So we should probably plan for Mr Toxic not getting his jiggy off. |
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Post by dc0315 on Dec 9, 2019 18:16:21 GMT
What so you mean if 1 but 2 is legit? Toxi can walk uo the table with the 5++ physiology and next to a maleceptor. However if u have enough synapse shooting its fairly easy to get it to 3d6 charge. And u declare the charge on a unit nearby to an executuiner not the executioner itself because of the -2, i dont need to kill it i simply need to tag it, then trap it If you're deepstriking with only 1 Pod, then you want to DS the Exocrene over the Toxi. But deepstriking both with 2 pods is legit. Some people have brought up Slingshotting the Toxicrene up the table with the SL - it is perfectly workable. Why I am never in favour of this is because the SL himself is exposed when you do this, and he's very easy to shoot off the table when he's a focus target (contrary to focusing a single Flyrant off the table, the value loss of a single Flyrant dying is small compared to the Swarmlord dying, since he hits like a bit of a powerhouse himself). The best players of GS Sling not only use him to launch things into the enemy face, but also to extract value from SL himself, which you can with Metabolic Overdrive putting him into cover with GS spread-eagle around the map to catch his 6" barking range. With a Maleceptor or a Toxicrene? If he doesnt make it to cover, you're gonna have to sit the SL in the open to launch him forward. You should never declare a Repulsor as a charge target out of deepstrike, and the only unit that can trap it is the Toxicrene, which means you need to get the Toxicrene into the Repulsor. I mean, when I face Repulsors they're usually on buildings if they can be, dunno about you but my Toxicrene doesnt charge up buildings, so charging the Repulsor was never the plan to begin with. The pile in and tag is of course great if they left themselves in that position though... There is a bit of a fallacy where we assume our opponents "play perfectly" - but I think it's a bigger fallacy to assume our opponents will make specific mistakes. We should be capable of capitalizing, but not hedging our bets on it to win. Having a Toxicrene that can survive his trip uptown would be great. In my mind, what the "ideal" counterplay looks like: going first, getting to shoot into the Toxicrene's gangly tentacles that cant be hidden to either kill it outright or wound it bad enough that it can be easily dispatched by me next turn, and move on to something else. Toxi moves up unhindered because of the 5++ double wounds, gets into one of my scouts - that's ok. I anticipate the big move and either leave my SmashCap nearby enough to Heroic Intervention in and smash the Toxicrene's face, or I Transhuman the Scouts to deny the Toxicrene that huge Overrun + Adrenaline Surge combo pile into the rest of my army. I now have an exposed Swarmlord to utterly (please do not swear) on before his T2 chargers come in. Of course, if we're facing Tau, it's a different story. Stopping a single Riptide from getting away is a HUGE deal since you cut nearly 25%? of the enemy's output. Likewise Aeldari actually have an extremely difficult time dealing with this, since they dont usually carry all that much melee. As long as you survive the Mortal Wound Generating Factory, you have a good chance of just wrecking their face in. Their main advantage has always been FLY, and if we can negate that, things get super dicey for them. Of course, my Aeldari lists usually have some form of melee in them, so I'm less worried personally, but most Aeldari lists dont like to punch faces. I got no feel for Necrons, but I'm assuming it's just a cakewalk if you get the Toxicrene into it. Here's the one problem we need to respect for Mr Toxic - it's a roll of 3+. How many times have we done a 3+ rr and failed? If our gameplan revolves around this ability, and it fails , we've just burnt CP and more CP, and they just walk away, now putting us in a dire situation. So we should probably plan for Mr Toxic not getting his jiggy off. What you are saying is true. Agree 100%. However isnt that further proof that DSing toxi in is the way to go? By t2 your stealers/hormagaunts got into combat too, yoube slungshot swarmlord in, not even transhuman can save scouts with all those wounds. Overrun+adrenal him into something that doesnt wanna escape, with bodies, youve blocked the smash cap 80% of the time and dont underestimate gargoyles. 30 in a straight line across the width of the board as leviathan or the new 6++ hive fleet trait+ catalyst. Cause 1 deatg and they hit nack with -1 and you can use the other trait to wound you on a further -1. Making it a minimum of -1 to hit in melee or -2 if you kill a model. Slingshot them in t1 to stop a gunline, at 150pts for 30, keeping 5 alive in coherency could stop 3 units from shooring. Then stealers/hormagaunts, swarmy, toxi, reygon could come in unhindered. If playing vs an executioner ontop of a ruin or building, gargoyles are key. As you assault it,it falls back to shoot in its turn then you countercharge the toxi into it, unlessnits being a lone wolf away from meatshields and buff HQs |
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