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Post by xsquidz on Jul 18, 2019 16:21:10 GMT
Honestly I was playing a broodlord before when it was 162 points and I was quite happy of it. But honesty I think that now at 115 points broodlords are worth it even if you play no genestealers!  Well for +10 pts Patriarch is much better, but yeah Broodlord can be a nice blender at least, albeit squishy as all hell. I say take both! I use GSC as my main now but with 2 broodlords and 3x3 rippers as an allied battallion. Take Kraken and with the double advance/metabolic overdrive those rippers can fly accross the board to get objectives but more importantly the broodlords unlock the nid psyker powers and with kraken double advance then can rush out and clear the way for my GSC, murder scouts, the guys wtih the 12" ignore DS bubble (but you need to soften them up a bit first to be safe). I always take broodlords over neurothropes now-points are too close. At 162 vs 70 it was neuros all the way. |
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Post by Master Chief on Jul 18, 2019 17:11:44 GMT
Obviously the patriarch is much better, but also broodlords are quite interesting if you count the nice stratagems they can use like metabolic overdrive, fight twice and fight after he dies.
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Post by kurtangle2 on Jul 18, 2019 19:09:01 GMT
Obviously the patriarch is much better, but also broodlords are quite interesting if you count the nice stratagems they can use like metabolic overdrive, fight twice and fight after he dies. Doesn't seem worthwhile to make up a detachment just for Broodlords. Mono GSC is still better when you consider that you can only have 1 type of character per detachment and so you're forced to take multiples to get access to double Gunslinger goodness and so on. |
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Post by xsquidz on Jul 18, 2019 19:20:05 GMT
Obviously the patriarch is much better, but also broodlords are quite interesting if you count the nice stratagems they can use like metabolic overdrive, fight twice and fight after he dies. Doesn't seem worthwhile to make up a detachment just for Broodlords. Mono GSC is still better when you consider that you can only have 1 type of character per detachment and so you're forced to take multiples to get access to double Gunslinger goodness and so on. I disagree entirely. I run triple battallion most of the time. Cheap nid one because its unlocks powers like the horror and paroxysm that when combo'd with the GSC powers is even more awesome. The double GSC battallion lets me take the 4 HQ's I want (broodcoven and iconward), tons of troops and 2 kelermorphs still (but not 3) and you can double up on a magus or patriarch if you want. You don't need more then 1 clamivus, nexos or anything else IMO so 2 battalions is enough. I really find the ideal is Nid Battalion, GSC Battalion and GSC Battalion. |
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Post by kurtangle2 on Jul 18, 2019 19:32:41 GMT
Doesn't seem worthwhile to make up a detachment just for Broodlords. Mono GSC is still better when you consider that you can only have 1 type of character per detachment and so you're forced to take multiples to get access to double Gunslinger goodness and so on. I disagree entirely. I run triple battallion most of the time. Cheap nid one because its unlocks powers like the horror and paroxysm that when combo'd with the GSC powers is even more awesome. The double GSC battallion lets me take the 4 HQ's I want (broodcoven and iconward), tons of troops and 2 kelermorphs still (but not 3) and you can double up on a magus or patriarch if you want. You don't need more then 1 clamivus, nexos or anything else IMO so 2 battalions is enough. I really find the ideal is Nid Battalion, GSC Battalion and GSC Battalion. The opportunity cost of getting a Tyr battalion for the classic Swamlord + Broodlord + 40 Jeans + 3 Rippers is just too much. Almost 900 points (let's assume half list) for a one trick pony is not something I would play at the highest level of competition and the best tournament players that started playing GSC agree with me. Mono GSC lets you play: More Acolytes More Aberrants A worthwhile shooting force in forms of Neophyte with all the added buffs/equipment (something that you can't do when using Tyr because you don't have neither the points nor the CPs to get there. You're forced to go entirely Brood Brothers on the ground and you're at the mercy of who goes first). Better at dealing with Characters (2x Gunslinger and 2x Sanctus can deal with normal characters). Better usage of GSC Stratagems since you have the CPs (Also you can actually make use of the more situational stratagems regarding the markers mechanics since you actually have something else on the board from GSC that isn't Brood Brothers). Addendum: The horror and the 5+++ FNP are the only worthwhile powers from Tyr, and the latter only works on something useful (i.e not Rippers if you go for 2x Zoanthrope + 3x3 Rippers). Paroxysm is (please do not swear) after the latest update that removed the only good thing about it |
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Post by xsquidz on Jul 18, 2019 19:57:22 GMT
I disagree entirely. I run triple battallion most of the time. Cheap nid one because its unlocks powers like the horror and paroxysm that when combo'd with the GSC powers is even more awesome. The double GSC battallion lets me take the 4 HQ's I want (broodcoven and iconward), tons of troops and 2 kelermorphs still (but not 3) and you can double up on a magus or patriarch if you want. You don't need more then 1 clamivus, nexos or anything else IMO so 2 battalions is enough. I really find the ideal is Nid Battalion, GSC Battalion and GSC Battalion. The opportunity cost of getting a Tyr battalion for the classic Swamlord + Broodlord + 40 Jeans + 3 Rippers is just too much. Almost 900 points (let's assume half list) for a one trick pony is not something I would play at the highest level of competition and the best tournament players that started playing GSC agree with me. Mono GSC lets you play: More Acolytes More Aberrants A worthwhile shooting force in forms of Neophyte with all the added buffs/equipment (something that you can't do when using Tyr because you don't have neither the points nor the CPs to get there. You're forced to go entirely Brood Brothers on the ground and you're at the mercy of who goes first). Better at dealing with Characters (2x Gunslinger and 2x Sanctus can deal with normal characters). Better usage of GSC Stratagems since you have the CPs (Also you can actually make use of the more situational stratagems regarding the markers mechanics since you actually have something else on the board from GSC that isn't Brood Brothers). Addendum: The horror and the 5+++ FNP are the only worthwhile powers from Tyr, and the latter only works on something useful (i.e not Rippers if you go for 2x Zoanthrope + 3x3 Rippers). Paroxysm is (please do not swear) after the latest update that removed the only good thing about it You didn't read my post. That is fine, I said a cheap nid battallion. 2 broordlords and 3x3 rippers-I never use the swarmlord/genestealers "one trick pony" because I agree its too expensive and if you go 2nd those genestealers are dead against most shooting armies. Paroxysm is still good(yes it did get a punch to the nuts), the only way they get around it is if they spend 2 CP to interrupt (which means they HAVE to spend CP which is still a win for you, make them waste it AND you can possibly still block it using "A plan generations in the making" if needed. The other advantage is the broodlords can hide out of LOS and then charge out 8+2d6 (with strats and still charge-3d6 on each of those advance rolls) so I use them to clear screens such as the marines with the 12" anti DS bubble or if someone has cheap scouts etc which is huge for getting the rock saws in later. They can fight twice or fight a 2nd time if they die and take out a pretty decent sized blocker squad solo. 12 attacks doing D3 damage a piece is not bad. |
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Post by hivefleetkerrigan on Jul 18, 2019 20:10:59 GMT
I have to disagree with your assessment of tyranids psychic powers. Yes, the horror + catalyst are great and paroxysm also took a bit, but we've got very good psychic powers.
Paroxysm is a bit of a niche use case but you can use it to defensively stop a unit from swinging first on your opponents turn.
Dominion is situational at best, but free synapse can be great in certain circumstances.
Onslaught is good as it helps all of your units perform better, either for shooting or for charging (you can also couple this with hive commander to advance after you see if onslaught is cast).
Psychic scream? Who doesn't love smite light that doesn't require line of sight? This is also especially good if you want to have a super damage oriented neurothrope.
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Post by xsquidz on Jul 18, 2019 20:21:27 GMT
I have to disagree with your assessment of tyranids psychic powers. Yes, the horror + catalyst are great and paroxysm also took a bit, but we've got very good psychic powers. Paroxysm is a bit of a niche use case but you can use it to defensively stop a unit from swinging first on your opponents turn. Dominion is situational at best, but free synapse can be great in certain circumstances. Onslaught is good as it helps all of your units perform better, either for shooting or for charging (you can also couple this with hive commander to advance after you see if onslaught is cast). Psychic scream? Who doesn't love smite light that doesn't require line of sight? This is also especially good if you want to have a super damage oriented neurothrope. Agreed, taking a cheap battallion of nids makes an amazing ally for GSC. If you don't like the broodlord, take 2-3 neurothropes that are pretty tough with a 3++ (unless they have a vindicare) and that gives you some smites which is always good and 3 more nid powers. |
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Post by N.I.B. on Jul 19, 2019 6:12:51 GMT
I disagree entirely. I run triple battallion most of the time. Cheap nid one because its unlocks powers like the horror and paroxysm that when combo'd with the GSC powers is even more awesome. The double GSC battallion lets me take the 4 HQ's I want (broodcoven and iconward), tons of troops and 2 kelermorphs still (but not 3) and you can double up on a magus or patriarch if you want. You don't need more then 1 clamivus, nexos or anything else IMO so 2 battalions is enough. I really find the ideal is Nid Battalion, GSC Battalion and GSC Battalion. The opportunity cost of getting a Tyr battalion for the classic Swamlord + Broodlord + 40 Jeans + 3 Rippers is just too much. Almost 900 points (let's assume half list) for a one trick pony is not something I would play at the highest level of competition and the best tournament players that started playing GSC agree with me. Enochia on these boards have been tearing up the Swedish tournament scene with Nids/cult/cult this year. Classic slingshot nids with Swarmy for turn 1 presence, plus a lot of Acolytes. Nanavati has also been winning with a cheap nids detachment. |
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Post by Master Chief on Jul 19, 2019 7:33:19 GMT
Yeah, and as Kurtangle2 said that "one trick pony" is never working...  And about me is true I am not playing ITC a lot, but i am mostly going for ETC rupes tournaments or games, but to be honest the last game I lost was in February... And I was preparing for a tournament and my opponen's list was IG with crusader, gallant and helverin. I let my opponent chose table layout, mission, deployment and who will go first without any chances to seize initiative. This because when I am testing something I want to have the worst possible conditions. And I didn't lost that much considering the premises, just 5-15 in ETC rules, so for me was a positive test. Unfortunately I am not playing many tournaments due to my work, but I go only for competitive games against a lot of ETC players from team Italy and Ireland. And I am just using a pure nids double batallion, because I like pure lists and I don't want to mix nids and gsc. Obviously I could do even better with gsc main or allies, but I am having a lot of fun and I am not in a bad spot, so I cannot complain at all and I play what I like and makes me having fun. I am running a "one trick pony" 80 genestealers list, but I saw others interesting lists (some in the ETC) with Gant carpets or maybe zoanthropes, warriors and also some builds with some monsters are not bad at all. |
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Post by kurtangle2 on Jul 19, 2019 7:53:36 GMT
The opportunity cost of getting a Tyr battalion for the classic Swamlord + Broodlord + 40 Jeans + 3 Rippers is just too much. Almost 900 points (let's assume half list) for a one trick pony is not something I would play at the highest level of competition and the best tournament players that started playing GSC agree with me. Enochia on these boards have been tearing up the Swedish tournament scene with Nids/cult/cult this year. Classic slingshot nids with Swarmy for turn 1 presence, plus a lot of Acolytes. Nanavati has also been winning with a cheap nids detachment. Navanati hasn't been using Tyrs in GSC for months, where are you taking his data? |
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Post by N.I.B. on Jul 19, 2019 8:22:33 GMT
He won a tournament with a nid detachment two months ago. Your point?
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Post by kurtangle2 on Jul 19, 2019 8:54:55 GMT
He won a tournament with a nid detachment two months ago. Your point? He got second place at Beef and Wings in June with monoGSC and another second place at CTC in May (still mono GSC) Sorry but I can't find the tourney you are referring to, can you post link +to army? |
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Post by iniquity on Jul 20, 2019 6:42:29 GMT
Thanks for all of the posts, there some interesting ideas in here. I added a 2nd blob of stealers to my list making a total of 60 and the 1-2 punch of tieing stuff up on turn 1 followed by the a full strength unit coming in and blendering stuff as actually quite nice (i won a game, hype) ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [84 PL, 8CP, 1,379pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Battle-forged CP [3CP] Detachment CP [5CP] Discipline: Hive Mind Extensions of the Hive Mind Hive Fleet: Kraken Use Beta Rules + HQ + Broodlord [8 PL, 115pts]: Power: Paroxysm The Swarmlord [15 PL, 250pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught + Troops + Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 4x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons . 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 5x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons . 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 5x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons . 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws + Elites + Hive Guard [13 PL, 294pts] . Hive Guard: Adrenal Glands, Impaler Cannon . Hive Guard: Adrenal Glands, Impaler Cannon . Hive Guard: Adrenal Glands, Impaler Cannon . Hive Guard: Adrenal Glands, Impaler Cannon . Hive Guard: Adrenal Glands, Impaler Cannon . Hive Guard: Adrenal Glands, Impaler Cannon ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [29 PL, 5CP, 569pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Detachment CP [5CP] Hive Fleet: Kraken + HQ + Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 223pts]: Adrenal Glands, Chameleonic Mutation, Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Instinctive Killer, Wings Malanthropes [5 PL, 140pts] . Malanthrope + Troops + Hormagaunts [9 PL, 140pts]: 28x Hormagaunt Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm ++ Auxiliary Support Detachment -1CP (Tyranids) [2 PL, -1CP, 50pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Detachment CP [-1CP] Hive Fleet: Kronos + Heavy Support + Biovores [2 PL, 50pts]: Biovore ++ Total: [115 PL, 12CP, 1,998pts] ++
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Post by iniquity on Jul 20, 2019 6:44:36 GMT
Added a second post because i have no idea how to do 2 spoilers in a row without creating an endless tunnel of spoilers in spoilers. With the addition of the chaos knights codex, is it a safe bet to think that its going to be a 100% knight meta? Should old one eye be in every tyranid list? I quite like the idea of mass stealers, i was wondering about + Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [71 PL, 8CP, 1,085pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Battle-forged CP [3CP] Detachment CP [5CP] Hive Fleet: Kraken + HQ + Broodlord [8 PL, 115pts] The Swarmlord [15 PL, 250pts] + Troops + Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 5x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons . 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 5x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons . 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 5x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons . 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [53 PL, 5CP, 864pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Detachment CP [5CP] Hive Fleet: Kraken + HQ + Malanthropes [5 PL, 140pts] . Malanthrope Old One Eye [10 PL, 200pts] + Troops + Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 5x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons . 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 5x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons . 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws Termagants [6 PL, 44pts] . 11x Termagant (Fleshborer) ++ Auxiliary Support Detachment -1CP (Tyranids) [2 PL, -1CP, 50pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Detachment CP [-1CP] Hive Fleet: Kronos + Heavy Support + Biovores [2 PL, 50pts]: Biovore ++ Total: [126 PL, 12CP, 1,999pts] ++ |
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