|
|
Post by Master Chief on Jul 15, 2019 16:33:21 GMT
Dude, we aren’t here to discuss your ETC list. We are here to help iniquity win some games. If you want to talk about the merits of an 80 stealer list than start up a new thread for it. As the author of the topic mentioned that he was playing with a genestealers slingshot, I thought that discussing about a list using that strategy was in topic... I will be more than happy to give him some advice on that kind of list via pm.  |
|
|
|
Post by xsquidz on Jul 15, 2019 16:43:08 GMT
I just want the OP to respond and give us more info so we can help better... if not time to move on. Are they even reading any of this?
|
|
|
|
Post by iniquity on Jul 15, 2019 22:45:45 GMT
Hi guys sorry i was on holiday and coulndt reply.
Ive been playing since December 2018 and currently play 2 nights per week.
Ill put my list below, i used to run a split kraken kornos but got bored of my neurothope in the kronos vanguard getting killed by vindicares.
Im currently playing ITC format games and im currently 1 Win to 10+ loses.
Every unit in the game that is played seems to be able to fly making wrapping it impossible, the nerf to opportunistic advance has really hurt my ability to do anything cool with genestealers, i tired 2 exocrines for a while by they kept getting killed turn 1 to contemptor dreds/ knights/ doomsday arcs and a stuff breeze.
Most games i play i choose recon and engineers with another secondary tailored towards the army im fighting.
Im really frustrated because in my circle on the weekends what ive been doing to learn the game is playing my list and then swapping with my opponent and playing against them with their army and i dont lose. Tyranids just feel horrible, when i ask my opponents what i can do differently they normally reply with "dont play tyranids" Its actually becoming so unemployable feeling like i just dont have the tools to win.
Ive tryed going balls deep for t1 charges, ive tried playing cagey and getting my hive guard into a good spot and hiding my stealers and swarm lord and nothing seems to be working. Yes, im new to the game and will obviously make mistakes, but im not playing at LVO top table and i dont understand why i do so much better with every other army i play with. Custodes, orcs and even (please do not swear) necros feel so much more no brainier to play.
It frustrates me when people defend tyranids with "they used to be much worse" or "they are a great dex now" following the ITC scene vanilla marines have had more top 10 placings than we have in the last 6 months in ITC majors.
I mean im aware this is a wine post, but guys its so frustrating steam rolling your own hard thought out and researched list with an army you literally need to ask at the start of every phase "hold on a min while i check if there are any good stratagems for me to use"
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [64 PL, 8CP, 980pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Battle-forged CP [3CP]
Detachment CP [5CP]
+ HQ +
Broodlord [8 PL, 115pts]
The Swarmlord [15 PL, 250pts]
+ Troops +
Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 5x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons
. 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws
Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 5x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons
. 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws
Hormagaunts [9 PL, 135pts]: 27x Hormagaunt
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [28 PL, 5CP, 524pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Detachment CP [5CP]
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 218pts]: Chameleonic Mutation, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: The Horror, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Instinctive Killer, Wings
Old One Eye [10 PL, 200pts]
+ Troops +
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm
Termagants [3 PL, 40pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer)
++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Tyranids) [22 PL, 496pts] ++
+ HQ +
Malanthropes [5 PL, 140pts]
. Malanthrope
+ Elites +
Hive Guard [13 PL, 288pts]
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
Lictor [2 PL, 34pts]: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws
Lictor [2 PL, 34pts]: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws
++ Total: [114 PL, 13CP, 2,000pts] ++
|
|
|
|
Post by kazetanade on Jul 15, 2019 23:55:11 GMT
It looks like a decent list, cookie cutter GS Sling from last year. The general statement of objectives and playstyles seem right. The standard advice of swapping armies and asking for comments seems to be in there. The lists sounds pretty cutting edge, if my assumption of Purge Deredeos and Contemptors are right.
Can you tell us a bit more about your terrain layout and the lists you right against?
|
|
|
|
Post by iniquity on Jul 16, 2019 0:03:39 GMT
It looks like a decent list, cookie cutter GS Sling from last year. The general statement of objectives and playstyles seem right. The standard advice of swapping armies and asking for comments seems to be in there. The lists sounds pretty cutting edge, if my assumption of Purge Deredeos and Contemptors are right. Can you tell us a bit more about your terrain layout and the lists you right against? Terrain is almost always an L in each quarter wirh a central square los block (usually a 2/3 story building and 2 bits of cover or other Los locking terrain. |
|
|
|
Post by purestrain on Jul 16, 2019 0:19:10 GMT
It looks like a decent list, cookie cutter GS Sling from last year. The general statement of objectives and playstyles seem right. The standard advice of swapping armies and asking for comments seems to be in there. The lists sounds pretty cutting edge, if my assumption of Purge Deredeos and Contemptors are right. Can you tell us a bit more about your terrain layout and the lists you right against? Terrain is almost always an L in each quarter wirh a central square los block (usually a 2/3 story building and 2 bits of cover or other Los locking terrain. Make it a cityscape or inner city ruins, much more terrain! |
|
|
|
Post by kazetanade on Jul 16, 2019 0:19:12 GMT
Terrain sounds extremely favourable - the only 2 things that I can think of is opponents list having large amounts of strong indirect fire/planes forcing you to make plays earlier than you want to (can't use HG to bomb them out until an opportunity is presented), or a great disparity between player skill meaning they're countering everything you try to do with an appropriate strategy.
Another note to consider is that Genestealers are not good vs mid size tank/Dreadnoughts with >10W, and while OOE is decent, he's only amazing vs Knights due to the high value trade. You might be facing lists the GS Sling is not able to handle gracefully, which will create problems if you don't understand the gap in your army ability and there is great disparity between the player skill.
Now, I'm not going to assume you're just bad at the game - if possible, could you pick 2 armies you're facing the most problems against and give us a simplified battlerep turn by turn? Because the problem isn't on outside factors like terrain or lists, the only thing left I can think of is really bad matchups and misunderstanding of how to handle them.
|
|
|
|
Post by iniquity on Jul 16, 2019 8:46:33 GMT
I just really struggle with stuff that flies and stuff being dumped on the top floor of a 3 story ruin. I'm tempted to change the list slightly.
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [80 PL, 8CP, 1,327pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Battle-forged CP [3CP]
Detachment CP [5CP]
Discipline: Hive Mind
Extensions of the Hive Mind
Hive Fleet: Kraken
Use Beta Rules
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 213pts]: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
The Swarmlord [15 PL, 250pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught
+ Troops +
Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 4x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons
. 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws
Genestealers [16 PL, 216pts]: 4x Acid Maw, 18x Scything Talons
. 18x Genestealer: 18x Rending Claws
Hormagaunts [9 PL, 120pts]: 24x Hormagaunt
+ Elites +
Hive Guard [13 PL, 288pts]
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [34 PL, 5CP, 672pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Detachment CP [5CP]
Hive Fleet: Kraken
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 213pts]: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 213pts]: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
Malanthropes [5 PL, 140pts]
. Malanthrope
+ Troops +
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm
Termagants [3 PL, 40pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer)
++ Total: [114 PL, 13CP, 1,999pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)
|
|
|
|
Post by kazetanade on Jul 16, 2019 9:12:38 GMT
Well, the only ways to deal with FLY is to degrade it to the point you can ignore it, kill it outright, or kill everything else around it.
And as for top of ruins... Yes you gotta shoot it. Depends what's he dumping up there, but certain things work better than others. 2 hybrid Flyrants I don't think has enough weight of attacks, but 2 double devs should.
|
|
|
|
Post by hivefleetkerrigan on Jul 16, 2019 12:13:34 GMT
When you mean units that fly, are you referring to aircraft units that cannot be charged? If it's just units with fly it's annoying but not unwinnable.
One option you have is to simply double down on genestealers. Your list right now would take a lot of finesse. While that's fine, I tend to have more fun and do better with heavy handed lists. I've run 100 before and its a blast. It makes it much harder for your opponent to wipe out all of your good units.
Your local area appears to be insanely competitive as well. That's definitely not helping out the learning curve. If you have any close friends I might suggest asking them to either tone down their lists (which sound like their tournament netlists) or to try maelstrom/eternal war missions. ITC limits what lists are good in my opinion and also requires taking into account more variables as you have multiple methods of scoring, etc. Eternal war/maelstrom are a bit simpler in that you only have a few scoring methods.
|
|
|
|
Post by wormlord666 on Jul 16, 2019 12:59:32 GMT
I have often played Hive guards. I love the potential of them shooting 12 S8 shots twice without beeing seen. However. I do not win games with them. My theory is that they drives me in to playing more stationery or to split up my army and the opponent can then take me apart one piece at a time. It is an active process in me right now to kill this darling hiveguards and go all in on stealers and acolytes.
A functioning list is not only good units. I must work for you to score points.
Then I must say. Nids are not in a good spot right know in ITC format. We give up secondaries easy, we lack that raw killing force from distance that many others have. Even with cult it is hard-mode and I am frustrated about it to since I loose a lot more than I win...
|
|
|
|
Post by Master Chief on Jul 16, 2019 17:06:52 GMT
I am sorry but i don't like that list at all. Who is shooting is doing that better than you and who is nasty in close combat is eating your 40 genestealers and 1 broodlord. In my point of view you should do one thing but very well, not many things but nothing properly. Vanilla marines are the perfect example of mediocre, and except some lists is very hard to do well with them. The list is not synergic, as someone said you are dividing your forces in two blocks, the shooting block and the aggressive block and the opponent most of the times might be able to choose the primary target and eliminate it. Most of the times the primary target will be the genestealers, once 20 or 25 genestealers are dead, will be very hard for you to do important damages on the opponent. And count also powers like doom bolt or stratagems like the thunder fire or like the bane hammer, that halve the movement of the units. Just imagine that once one unit is half movement and is not a threat anymore, the opponent is free to shoot everything on the second unit. Than another thing, playing so many easy kill points is not helping in many systems, ETC and ITC. And in ETC and ITC is not a good idea to have a Flyrant as your Warlord. It is impossible to hide it! As soon as I can I will give more advices, but don't give up. |
|
|
|
Post by iniquity on Jul 16, 2019 17:54:11 GMT
Surly 60 stealers is just giving away secondaries? Mark them and a flyrant and you get 8 points with reaper?
|
|
|
|
Post by kurtangle2 on Jul 16, 2019 18:17:09 GMT
Surly 60 stealers is just giving away secondaries? Mark them and a flyrant and you get 8 points with reaper? Don't play more than 40 genestealers, it's a trap |
|
|
|
Post by hivefleetkerrigan on Jul 16, 2019 18:28:43 GMT
Surly 60 stealers is just giving away secondaries? Mark them and a flyrant and you get 8 points with reaper? Don't play more than 40 genestealers, it's a trap I've played with 100 and it worked well and was lots of fun. However, I wasn't playing ITC. I think playing too few genestealers is a trap in my experience. I either play 0 or loads. |
|
