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Post by mattblowers on Jul 2, 2018 22:42:03 GMT
Hey look, Who would've guessed biovores are good?  I still think they cost too much, but I'm happy to admit I'm wrong: they probably are our best option. They are really dangerous and if a chimera chassis and gallant are killed charging in, we don't have much that will make it in. |
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Post by hiveminded on Jul 2, 2018 23:12:17 GMT
Hey look, Who would've guessed biovores are good? Like I said, Nids will have a hard time, and until GSC codex comes out I'm not taking them. We have tools but for the most part I'll just chip away at them and take the board and just win with points rather than exterminating threats. Yeah, OK. Or you can just spend your 300 points elsewhere and actually kill the knights instead of playing movement games. Played a knight/IG list over the weekend. My opponent had three knights, some basilisks, a tank commander, and a bunch of guard units with mortars. Tabled him turn 5. |
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Post by mattblowers on Jul 3, 2018 1:45:17 GMT
Hey look, Who would've guessed biovores are good? Like I said, Nids will have a hard time, and until GSC codex comes out I'm not taking them. We have tools but for the most part I'll just chip away at them and take the board and just win with points rather than exterminating threats. Yeah, OK. Or you can just spend your 300 points elsewhere and actually kill the knights instead of playing movement games. Played a knight/IG list over the weekend. My opponent had three knights, some basilisks, a tank commander, and a bunch of guard units with mortars. Tabled him turn 5. OK, share your secret sauce. Inquiring minds want to know. I have no idea how you killed 3 big knights in 5 turns. Did your opponent have any indominus class? How did you get past the 3++ invul? |
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Post by kazetanade on Jul 3, 2018 4:17:05 GMT
Depending on the point size, could have been 2 Crusaders + 1 Castellan? Using one of the shooty houses that collapse with negative modifiers. Or maybe a GSC mind control on the Castellan wrecked one of the other Knights - its a potential threat that Knights cant ignore with their immense firepower. Then you charge the Castellan with the Swarmlord and laugh as it flails trying to hit you.
I mean I'm interested too but... there's a lot of considerations on this matchup.
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Post by mule on Jul 3, 2018 5:51:17 GMT
Depending on the point size, could have been 2 Crusaders + 1 Castellan? Using one of the shooty houses that collapse with negative modifiers. Or maybe a GSC mind control on the Castellan wrecked one of the other Knights - its a potential threat that Knights cant ignore with their immense firepower. Then you charge the Castellan with the Swarmlord and laugh as it flails trying to hit you. I mean I'm interested too but... there's a lot of considerations on this matchup. Yeah I really like GSC in this matchup, i just dont like it in any other matchup. Im ok with losing our third detachment for good spells but, its just sort of lacking. Need a bit more before I take them I think. |
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Post by sidedisc on Jul 3, 2018 6:58:10 GMT
I just had my first go with Nids fighting a ‘Knight list’. We were playing ITC mission 1, and got dawn of war deployment. My list was: ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [68 PL, 1284pts] +++ No Force Org Slot +Hive Fleet: Kronos + HQ +Neurothrope [4 PL, 70pts]Neurothrope [4 PL, 70pts]+ Troops +Termagants [6 PL, 80pts]: 20x Termagant (Fleshborer) Termagants [6 PL, 80pts]: 20x Termagant (Fleshborer) Termagants [6 PL, 80pts]: 20x Termagant (Fleshborer) + Elites +Hive Guard [13 PL, 288pts]. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon . Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon . Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon . Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon . Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon . Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon + Heavy Support +Carnifexes [18 PL, 378pts]. Carnifex: Enhanced Senses, Heavy Venom Cannon, Spore Cysts, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms . Carnifex: Enhanced Senses, Heavy Venom Cannon, Spore Cysts, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms . Carnifex: Enhanced Senses, Heavy Venom Cannon, Spore Cysts, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms Tyrannofex [11 PL, 238pts]: Rupture Cannon, Stinger Salvo ++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Tyranids) [37 PL, 716pts] +++ No Force Org Slot +Hive Fleet: Kraken + HQ +Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 208pts]: Monstrous Rending Claws, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 208pts]: Monstrous Rending Claws, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings + Heavy Support +Stone Crusher Carnifex Brood [5 PL, 100pts]. Stone Crusher Carnifex: 2x Wrecker Claws, Bone Mace Stone Crusher Carnifex Brood [5 PL, 100pts]. Stone Crusher Carnifex: 2x Wrecker Claws, Bone Mace Stone Crusher Carnifex Brood [5 PL, 100pts]. Stone Crusher Carnifex: 2x Wrecker Claws, Bone Mace ++ Total: [105 PL, 2000pts] ++Created with BattleScribeHis was: ++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [95 PL, 1822pts] +++ No Force Org Slot +Household Choice: House Raven, Questor Mechanicus + Lord of War +Armiger Helverins [18 PL, 348pts]. Armiger Helverin: Heavy stubber . Armiger Helverin: Heavy stubber Armiger Helverins [18 PL, 348pts]. Armiger Helverin: Heavy stubber . Armiger Helverin: Heavy stubber Armiger Warglaives [18 PL, 328pts]. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy stubber . Armiger Warglaive: Heavy stubber Armiger Warglaives [18 PL, 328pts]. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy stubber . Armiger Warglaive: Heavy stubber Knight Preceptor [23 PL, 470pts]: Character, Multi-laser, Reaper chainsword, Stormspear rocket pod ++ Patrol Detachment (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [21 PL, 178pts] +++ Uncategorised +Forge World: Stygies VIII + HQ +Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm, The Omnissiah's Hand . Warlord: Necromechanic + Troops +Skitarii Rangers [7 PL, 46pts]. Ranger (Arc Rifle): Arc rifle . Ranger Alpha: Galvanic rifle . 4x Skitarii Ranger Skitarii Rangers [7 PL, 46pts]. Ranger (Arc Rifle): Arc rifle . Ranger Alpha: Galvanic rifle . 4x Skitarii Ranger Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 39pts]. Ranger (Arc Rifle): Arc rifle . Ranger Alpha: Galvanic rifle . 3x Skitarii Ranger ++ Total: [116 PL, 2000pts] ++Created with BattleScribeI managed to table him turn 4, however, that was only 1 large knight, which to be honest I largely ignored as its damage output wasn’t too impressive. It did kill a couple of cafnifex, but meh. Same goes with my Tyrannofex, the rupture cannon was meh. |
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Post by hiveminded on Jul 3, 2018 10:54:31 GMT
He had a galliant, one regular shooty Knight with the gatling gun, and one of the new large knights. Killed the galliant and the regular knight bottom of turn one. Took me until the bottom of turn four to kill the big knight. Needed turn five to finish off the remaining IG units.
Used a combination of things:
- hive guard
- lots of smite (four smites and a psychic scream per turn)...also used the horror to help neutralize his big knight’s shooting
- lots of devourers w/ BL peppering wounds
- genestealers and a broodlord finishing one of them off in close combat
- had a magus drop in turn one, mind control his big knight, and shoot the harpoon (10 damage), four melta guns, one of the single use missiles, and the big 3d6 S7 2 damage flamer into his gallant...was beautiful.
If my opponent had had better dice, it would have been a closer game. As it was, I won 31-16...ITC tourney missions.
Edit: Also...note that the ITC championship missions hit knights pretty hard. Your opponent will likely make them all characters so he can use the cool relics...this means they give up max kingslayer points. Titan slayers doesn’t stack with kingslayer, but do enough damage and you should max both. Toss in a headhunter, big game hunter, or recon, and you should be scoring max 12 secondary points against knight players every game. I hate the ITC missions personally, but it’s all we run in my local area.
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Post by mattblowers on Jul 3, 2018 11:21:05 GMT
He had a galliant, one regular shooty Knight with the gatling gun, and one of the new large knights. Killed the galliant and the regular knight bottom of turn one. Took me until the bottom of turn four to kill the big knight. Needed turn five to finish off the remaining IG units. Used a combination of things: - hive guard - lots of smite (four smites and a psychic scream per turn)...also used the horror to help neutralize his big knight’s shooting - lots of devourers w/ BL peppering wounds - genestealers and a broodlord finishing one of them off in close combat - had a magus drop in turn one, mind control his big knight, and shoot the harpoon (10 damage), four melta guns, one of the single use missiles, and the big 3d6 S7 2 damage flamer into his gallant...was beautiful. If my opponent had had better dice, it would have been a closer game. As it was, I won 31-16...ITC tourney missions. Sounds like it went ideally. I shot one of the big knights for 2 rounds and did exactly zero wounds through the 3++. Now he did roll hot, but if they aren't taking the 2+ armour and 4++ (3++ with rotating shields) then their list needs some help. I really am shocked that you could kill 2 knights in 1 turn. GSC definately are a problem for knights with mind control. Or maybe I just suck against knights. |
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Post by hiveminded on Jul 3, 2018 11:23:47 GMT
I didn’t say ignore GSC, I said biovores aren’t points efficient. I’d rather have six more hive guard than six biovores.
Are you using many psykers? Smite spam doesn’t care about 2+/3++.
Also, see the edit to my post above regarding the ITC missions. Knights hemorrhage secondary points.
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Post by acehilator on Jul 3, 2018 11:42:42 GMT
Wow that Knight list up there is so bad it hurts, omigosh lol. And Mind Control is our best tool against Knights, news at 11  |
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Post by mattblowers on Jul 3, 2018 12:38:08 GMT
I didn’t say ignore GSC, I said biovores aren’t points efficient. I’d rather have six more hive guard than six biovores. My bad, I misread what you had said. I changed my post. I start having issues with smite after the 2nd or 3rd one because of the +1 for each to cast. I still don't get it. Even if you get 4 smites off and average 3 MW each your haven't degraded a knight yet. But keep telling us how and what you are doing, I have found them pretty strong so far. The best lists I have seen so far are strong lists on their own legs that can sprinkle in an indominus class to back it up. And yes, they hemorrhage points like crazy, the ITC secondaries need some help. I don't like that ITC really punishes some lists for their choices but others get off free. I think points should be given for how a unit performs on the tabletop. ITC awards points for how your opponent has made their list. |
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Post by acehilator on Jul 3, 2018 13:12:39 GMT
Not sure about ITC rules and how many points less you give up this way, but in a full Knight list with three big Knights there should only be two characters, not three.
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Post by mattblowers on Jul 3, 2018 13:22:32 GMT
Not sure about ITC rules and how many points less you give up this way, but in a full Knight list with three big Knights there should only be two characters, not three. Knight Lance gives you one at no charge, you just pick one. Then for 3 CP two more may become characters and pick a warlord trait. They don't HAVE to be, but they CAN be. They also give points for monster hunter and titan slayer. |
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Post by kazetanade on Jul 3, 2018 14:10:04 GMT
True but its like... barring some spicy plays like a Knight blowing his friends up, its not usually likely to score all 3 Knights. Assuming 1 scored will be Kingslayer, that gives you like 1 Knight for titan slayer, if you have any way to kill it left. For my GS Sling list i only have a SL + GS pile in that could take a Knight down, I'm unlikely to survive with enough left to take down another one. Even compared to say, a Shining Spears/Reapers combo list, or Nanavanti's older Cultist/Pox list, how exactly are you taking them down? Short of stopping them entirely for a few turns (which is possible to do with 2 x 40 cultists, or brave Raven Guard/Alpha Legion sacrifices but not your usual troops), i dont see them as an "i can ignore" button, if the enemy is using them to push lines and bully areas. They're only ignorable if they stand way at a side just shelling like IG artillery. Plus in those cases you haemorrhage Reapers faster than they do Titanslayer.
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Post by acehilator on Jul 3, 2018 14:38:39 GMT
mattblowersYup that's what I meant. If building for ITC you should be competent enough to only run two character Knights instead of all three. Should be Valiant + Gallant, leaves a Crusader without relic or WL trait, but he doesn't need either.
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