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Post by purpleshaza on Apr 15, 2014 16:40:55 GMT
If they are using ignore cover spam use the skyshield it has a 4+ inv which is not a cover save also units under it can't be attacked with barrage weapons.
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Post by zoda8 on Apr 17, 2014 18:06:44 GMT
Currently testing skyblight at 1500.
2 Dakka Flyrants, 1 with hive commander
Crone and 2 Harpies
12 Outflanking devourer gaunts
3 ripper swarms
Aegis and comms
52 gargoyles in 3 squads
As these are friendlies I am proxying any old gaunts as gargoyles (I have zero gargoyles) then recycling when killed to use as devourer gaunts. I use a warrior for the extra flyrant and two hive guard for the harpies. I have the other bits I need. Total extra cost of running skyblight - zero.
The list is designed to reduce round 1 losses. Stick the aegis right at the back, hide the rippers where they cant even be seen, and the gargoyles alongside and keep everything else in reserve. I tried this with 6 x 10 gargoyles first, but then realised only the dataslate gargoyles come back. Allowing for regeneration, I lost only 125 points in a round of shooting to a blob with severin loth/ librarian and a load of battlesuits/ drones with 8 shots each (i think s5), rerolls, ap2, ignores cover, gate of infinity etc etc. The plan is to offer them nothing but cheapo rubbish that regenerates anyway, and has going to ground behind an aegis as its worst instinctive behaviour. Because regenerated gargoyles go straight into ongoing reserves, they come back in your turn one if you go second, which helps to not get tabled. If oppo has moved aggressively up the table, you have the option to deep strike right down the other end and go to ground in some more terrain (cover at least protects you from the kroot). My turn 2 I brought on 5 FMCs, devourer gaunts came in behind buffmander in 2 up armour with fnp and I precision shotted all the dakka at him killing him with the last dice. I hate that guy. Not sure if i would have been better to take out the cheapo tanks with 12 skyfire missiles and markerlights, since they killed both my flyrants in turn 2. I got into combat with the blob which lasted until turn 5. Regenerated gargoyles like crazy. Hormagaunts that i had (slightly different list) ate their own faces but nobody else minded the lack of synapse that much. Found out that the flying tyranid menace of gargoyles even gets its butt kicked by kroot, and multi marine hqs make the blob good at fighting - insta killed a harpy. Crone got shot down to 1 wound then killed by fatties that got out of the tanks. I kind of fizzled out in turn 6 and lost. I think if Ii had been more cautious with Fmcs and done things like vector strike off the board instead of flamering kroot, I might have got closer. Ho hum.
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Post by zoda8 on Apr 17, 2014 20:59:10 GMT
Just tried above and it was terrible. Pushed aegis further back to hide rippers and tempt blob into vector range. All gargoyles failed leadership when shot and ran off the board. None of them regenerated. Almost tabled in turn 1 and threw towel in. Next list will be skyblight plus endless swarm plus a couple of rippers and an hq, and push the aegis forward to edge of deployment zone.
Edit - 1500 skyblight plus endless swarm is reassuringly easy to pick. With the bare minimum troops, HQ and formations, there are just 132 points to play with, which I have spent on flyrant guns, aegis and comms and 1 more warrior as synapse is thin.
Start with all the rubbish, bring MCs, prime and warriors on from reserve.
Dakka Flyrant, Crone, 2 Harpies, 3x10 Gargoyles - 835
3 x 10 Hormagaunts, 3 x 10 Termagaunts, 4 Warriors - 390
Aegis, comms, 2x3 rippers, prime.
TOTAL 1498
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Post by gigasnail on Apr 18, 2014 5:09:10 GMT
don't count on LD7 units not running way when shot and out of synapse.
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Post by zoda8 on Apr 18, 2014 8:31:43 GMT
Sorry posted same message 3 times
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Post by zoda8 on Apr 18, 2014 8:31:56 GMT
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Post by zoda8 on Apr 18, 2014 8:32:59 GMT
I found that out to my cost! The trouble is Tau can decimate your synapse and then make you run off the board anyway. I'm just wondering if these formations allow you to serve up so much 'endless' crud that running off the board doesn't matter that much.
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Post by zoda8 on Apr 22, 2014 10:57:02 GMT
I'm gonna throw the towel in and leave it to you more experienced folk to find a way through. I am finding a similar problem to Tag 8833. I struggle with 115 point skyrays that markerlight your FMCs and then each fire 6 skyfire missiles into them, decimating them before you even start. The Tau megablob with Severin Loth, buffmander, battlesuits, shield drones and other HQs is beyond me. They gate of infinity into your face, split fire, fire huge volleys of high strength, high AP shots that re-roll to hit, ignore cover and in some cases don't even need line of sight. This is all at high BS buffed by markerlights. Their close up melta destroys bastions. When going second they sit in area terrain with stealth and shrouded for a 2 up cover save, then jump out and get started. I can't find the HQs, synapse creatures or MCs to withstand this. I have experimented with mass dross - leaving everything good in reserve and nothing more than 6 point creatures to shoot at - but even running skyblight and endless swarm together, with 11 units on the board 9 of which regenerate, 2 rounds of shooting and instinctive behaviour before your good stuff comes on is crippling. To buy boxes of gargoyles and harpies, find a way of carrying them, and then spend ages putting them all out just to give an opponent some super fun shooting practice just doesn't seem attractive. Good luck to those of you who still have some ideas up your sleeves!
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Post by tag8833 on Apr 22, 2014 21:23:39 GMT
The current hotness in the Tyranid meta is Skyshield landing pad coupled with a venom for a 2+ cover, and a 4++ invul.
You can throw 2-3 exocrines up there, and provided you get Dawn of War deployment it puts out a good amount of AP2 firepower that you can use to control a large section of the board.
Tau is always going to be able to list tailor to beat anything tyranids can put on the board, but against a non-tailored Tau list, sometimes you can play Mexican standoff, and win an objectives game.
If the 7th edition rumors are true, Tau are about to take a major nerfing that will cause many of the power gamers to rage quit (they didn't pick Tau to play balanced games), and switch over to whatever is the new hotness.
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Post by gigasnail on Apr 22, 2014 21:52:37 GMT
And if you believe any of that, I have some Arizona beachfront property I would love to sell you.
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Post by tag8833 on Apr 23, 2014 2:59:57 GMT
I win an occasional game against Tau. Castle up with Terrain. Jump out turn 5 to contest their objectives and get line breaker. With enough concentration of force, you can keep them bottled up in their own deployment.
If they bring decent numbers of units that aren't riptides, skyrays, broadsides, drones, or crisis suites, I can even win by playing a bit more aggressively. Last week I did a 2 on 2 1250 points each Tyranids + Orks vs. Tau (Grey Knight allies) + Tau, and won that game. We played on a 8' by 4' board, and deployed Hammer and anvil. I moved my flying circus forward along one board edge keeping to terrain or keeping my Gargoyles out front. Failed my 1st grounding check (and lost a flyrant), but made the next 8. My Ally's Green tide controlled our backfield against deep striking suits and outflanking Kroot (I kept some warrior back to help him score objectives, and they killed 20 kroot). But that left me + a single battle wagon full of burnas to battle the entire tau army. On turn 4 I got a charge off on 3 missle sides + commander Farsight with a flyrant. I had to spend almost 20 gargoyles to eat the combined overwatch first, but once I got in I smashed, and killed a broadside which prevented Farsight the ability to pile in, and they failed moral and I overran 2 broadsides + farsight. Of course that left my flyrant on the ground and it died, but my crones were able to run amock and kill an unreasonable number of crisis suites, fire warriors and purifiers. We generally lacked the firepower to kill the other 3 broadsides or the Riptide, but we killed enough troops that they couldn't hold 3 objectives, and didn't have a chance to move 8 feet to get to our 3 objectives that were swarming with Orks.
Running 40 firewarriors, 20 Kroot, and 2x5 purifiers + a weird Grey Knights HQ that spent the whole game tarpitting 20 HGaunts, Tau is beatable. Even in an insane situation like 8' by 4' Hammer and Anvil. Our opponents commented after the game "We should have run more Riptides". If they had each fielded 3 skyfire Riptides, they would have won.
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Post by zoda8 on Apr 23, 2014 18:03:13 GMT
Thanks Tag, that's a really interesting update. I hadn't even thought about the skyshield as it looks aeroplaney, but that 4 plus invun would cut some of my losses in half!
I might be interested in that beachfront property gigasnail - do you accept payment in overworked pyrovores?
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Post by Silegy on Apr 24, 2014 18:13:33 GMT
I win an occasional game against Tau. If they bring decent numbers of units that aren't riptides, skyrays, broadsides, drones, or crisis suites. Lemme rephrase that. I sometimes win vs Tau players, unless they play Tau. |
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Post by tag8833 on Apr 24, 2014 19:14:21 GMT
I win an occasional game against Tau. If they bring decent numbers of units that aren't riptides, skyrays, broadsides, drones, or crisis suites. Lemme rephrase that. I sometimes win vs Tau players, unless they play Tau. I think firewarriors, Kroot, Sniper/Gun Drones, Pathfinders, Hammerheads, Stealth Teams, and Devilfish are all Tau units. I know there is a misconception that the Riptide is the only Tau unit, and that Tau should be best played like the new Imperial Knights codex with nothing but Riptides. But if you bring 45 Firewarriors against me, I can win that game. If you run 2 Hammerheads, I can win that game. If you bring 40 Kroot, I can win that game. It doesn't make you less Tau to do any of those things.
Even the stupid all Riptides, Broadsides, Suites, and Skyrays can be beat once in a while, but requires that I tailor to it, and get very lucky.
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Post by Silegy on Apr 25, 2014 3:05:03 GMT
Lemme rephrase that. I sometimes win vs Tau players, unless they play Tau. I think firewarriors, Kroot, Sniper/Gun Drones, Pathfinders, Hammerheads, Stealth Teams, and Devilfish are all Tau units. I know there is a misconception that the Riptide is the only Tau unit, and that Tau should be best played like the new Imperial Knights codex with nothing but Riptides. But if you bring 45 Firewarriors against me, I can win that game. If you run 2 Hammerheads, I can win that game. If you bring 40 Kroot, I can win that game. It doesn't make you less Tau to do any of those things.
Even the stupid all Riptides, Broadsides, Suites, and Skyrays can be beat once in a while, but requires that I tailor to it, and get very lucky.
Sniper/Gun Drones are not drones. I see. |
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