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Post by N.I.B. on Jun 18, 2012 9:55:43 GMT
The assault from deepstrike rumour is pretty old by now, as it's from the pancake pdf. I haven't seen it 'confirmed' by the new rumours. But even if it's in, it will probably be limited. The pancake edition had close units able to fire against deepstriking units as they landed, and IIRC you could only assault if you managed to land within 6" of anything. I think only units with Fleet were able to assault after deepstrike.
Same with wound allocation, from pancake. The newer rumours has us remove the closest models first, who knows what's true. We'll know within a week.
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Post by malebranche on Jun 18, 2012 18:03:04 GMT
It specifically says in the codex entry for trygons that any unit arriving via the tunnels can't move or assault the turn they arrive. Same with mycetic spores, so they'll have to change that before it helps us. Oh, and Lictors. Damn you, cruddace...
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Post by Illithid on Jun 19, 2012 9:32:01 GMT
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Post by N.I.B. on Jun 19, 2012 10:12:27 GMT
They are hinting about the changes to the psychic rules, and perhaps a bit of change to the fluff. I think the dude with the third eye is a navigator.
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Post by pipsickness on Jun 19, 2012 10:19:54 GMT
I personally can't wait for the updates. I've felt 5th has been a bit lacking and of a slower pace than I like from my games. Having said that however give me a week of getting used to the new rules and I'm sure I'll have plenty of gripes. never happy. *shakes head* Would love to see Lictors and Ravenors able to assault when they turn up though would make a HUGE difference to my games. I might even start using the lictor more than as a fun throwaway unit.
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Post by the6thdegree on Jun 19, 2012 14:22:39 GMT
Rules apparently just leaked from the upcoming WD (my thoughts in italics - feel free to ignore lol):
- Hull Points are in, it is stated that Ghost Arks, Land Raiders, and Defilers each have 4 Hull Points apiece. Even harder for us to pop tanks... - Rapid fire, you can indeed move and fire once up to the full range of the weapon (it is explicitly stated that Fire Warriors can fire their weapons up to 30" away), no confirmation on the 3x fire for Relentless at half range though. Wont really help us much. - Assault moves are indeed 2d6", but added together. Units equipped with jump packs can re-roll the dice to see how far they charge. My gut is that I prefer a standard 6" charge. It will make things like Gants using Terv bonuses almost impossible to manage - The Rage USR gives you +2 attacks on the charge I guess this ok - All flying monstrous creatures have the ability to fly 24", doing something called a "Vector Strike", which is a certain amount of automatic hits to a unit they fly over, at the base strength of the creature. Hmm...Harpy is starting look like a decent option... - Monstrous creatures' attacks are explicitly AP 2 So effectively no change there... - Every army must select a "Warlord" or single general to lead the army, this leader gets an ability. They can choose between three different types of abilities, "Personal", "Inspirational" or "Strategic". They then roll on one of those charts to see what ability it is. The two examples given were a Grand Master giving all friendlies within 12" his Ld of 10 (Inspirational), and a Chaos Lord being a scoring unit (Personal, the ability itself was called "Immovable Object") Not very Nid-like...especially as we alerady have "Inspirational" - its called Synapse. - Flyers are a specific type of unit, and it is somewhat unclear as to the rules for shooting at them. Either all units require a 6 to hit them (unless they have a special rule called Skyfire), or this is still the case but only if those flyers move flat-out. Monstrous creatures with the ability to Fly also get this "6-to-hit" rule. Harpies are even better - You have the ability to buy different terrain (it even has its own slot on the new FOC), e.g, you can buy a Bastion with a Quad-Gun (which has the aforementioned Skyfire USR). There seem to be quite a few options for what terrain you can buy, but naturally most of them are typically represented by terrain kits GW sells. I bet GW will be selling 'Nid themed anti aircraft guns *sarcasm*. Saying that - it would probably be here quicker than a Mycetic Spore model. - Now we're on the topic of the FOC, the rules for allies weren't laid out specifically, but it is heavily implied that its not the same as in WHFB. They refer to allied units as "Detachments", and there is an example of a player with a Chaos Space Marine force having some detachments of Chaos Daemons in his army. Basically, I was given the impression that it is far more common (and frequent) for a detachment from another 40k army to join a larger one, than it is for a Fantasy army to have Allies. Think more along the lines of the Storm of Magic rules for using TK, VC, or Daemons. Prob wont apply to Nids from what we've seen. - Here's a biggie: Units -can- go on Overwatch, giving them the ability to fire upon an enemy unit which charges them, but at BS 1. Eldar (and any other army with access to the Clairvoyance psychic power set) can use a psychic power to give a unit the ability to fire at their usual BS. I like the BS1 - not as evil as it used to be in 2nd Ed. It will still hurt Assault based armies though... - Monstrous Creatures have access to a special "Smash" attack, allowing them to halve their attacks, but double their strength. It mentions that this gives them the ability to destroy tanks more easily. It worries me they might have removed MCs 2D6 armour pen - which does not bode well. - It's somewhat hinted that AP will have some kind of affect against vehicles. This is because part of the Munitorum dice set includes vehicle damage dice. It specifies that some of the dice are "AP 1, AP 2, and AP 3 Damage dice", or something to that effect. We'll have to see how this plays out. - 4 Disciplines of Psychic powers, basically what we were thinking in terms of Clairvoyance, Biomancy, etc etc. There's a chart near the back of the WD detailing which (if any) psychic disciplines a particular army gains access to. It's interesting to see that a large amount of armies don't have access to any at all. I bet this includes Nids - although we already have the psychic powers we need.
- Land Speeders have the special rule "Jink", which gives them a 5+ save all the time, this changes to 4+ if they go flat out. (I'm reasonably sure all fast skimmers get this, I'm not sure whether it's a USR or just a quality Fast Skimmers get) Fair enough so long our Hive Guards aren't affected...
-Also,models are taken from the front when they're shot. Or, to put it another way, when a unit gets shot at, models from the part of the unit closest to the firer are removed first. REALLY not looking forward to this. The combination of 2D6 assault, overwatch and this rule could really hurt assault armies
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Post by pipsickness on Jun 19, 2012 15:17:22 GMT
Scary and Exciting all at the same time! As I said i'm looking forward to the shake-up but as a primarily assault player (in fact the only projectiles I tend to take are a small unit of termies and zoanthrope!) i'm a little more worried now.
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Post by zephoid on Jun 19, 2012 15:43:52 GMT
Lots of things wrong with those changes. 6s to hit the razorwing, 5+ save on fast skimmers invalidates flickerfields, psychic power disciplines sound very odd and dont fit most armies. However, things like buying terrain and overwatch sound interesting.
It seems my eldar will be getting a pretty big all around buff. Unfortunately, it seems to be just making the units that i would take anyways better.
Nids get a buff with the longer assault range. I can see low-synapse armies being an interesting option to make your guys rage and charge farther. Trygon having a 26" threat range (6+d6+2d6+2) sounds pretty silly good. Kiting rage much harder and BA get a pretty big buff.
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Post by gloomfang on Jun 19, 2012 15:48:28 GMT
I am ok with the 2D6 charge as long as I can fail charges, but still move. That means my screamer killers and swarmlord's lack of fleet will not be as problematic. Right now it is 6+D6 to run or 6+6 to charge, so 6+2D6 to run/charge is a great tradoff. Swarmlord with an 18" threat range? I'll take some of that thank you.
Also I think I am going to cut down on my synapse. Feed gives units the rage rule, so raveners, hormagaunts and fexies can get a +1A for failing thier IB test. Not really a good reason to have them in synapse.
I want to see what the MC "Smash Rule" does. It might explain the cost of the fex if they do double and you can go above 10. I would even be willing to give up the 2D6 for AP for it as my fex with AG will get 2 AP20 attacks (autopen EVERYTHING), 3 AP20 attacks if they have rage.
Not sure about the rest. Need to mull them over.
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Post by Voice of Reason on Jun 19, 2012 15:54:50 GMT
Rules apparently just leaked from the upcoming WD (my thoughts in italics - feel free to ignore lol): - Hull Points are in, it is stated that Ghost Arks, Land Raiders, and Defilers each have 4 Hull Points apiece. Even harder for us to pop tanks...I disagree; *IF TRUE* there are a lot of assumptions: 1. hull points are removed on all glancing hits AND don't regenerate from one turn to the next. 2. Glancing hit results remain the same 3. Penetrating hit results remains the same Right now if we're going to glance a vehicle to death we have to get enough hits that are weapon destroyed, immobilized to run out of engines and weapons then one more to wreck the vehicle. if you consider each weapon a point, and the engine another, then yet one more point to actually wreck the vehicle: Ghost arks have 4 points Defilers have 5 points Land Raiders have 6 points Seems Ghost arks are the same to kill and the rest of them are easier. this makes much more sense than 2d6 take the highest. That said, we should already be dang familiar with the bell curve. Also, it goes hand-in-hand with pre-measuring. if you already know the distance, a 7" charge range is 58.33% and 8" charge is 41%. 6"charge is 72.22% **Edit: Considering that when we shoot a unit then charge, we already build in a 5" charge range or less prior to assaulting, lest they pull models from the front and make our charge fail. ultimately, I think it's a non-issue once it reaches the table I was wondering what they might come up with for MCs to compete against mechanical flyers. This will be nice for us. wait, what? I'mmo wanna see the table. seems a little heavy-handed - basically if it's in the air, it's effectively immune? Maybe it's 6's to hit in assault. That actually makes sense. hey, I've got more than enough extra venom cannons sitting around for me to put on a quad mount (or niddy equivalent) and convert it to be some kind of Acid-beetle-shooter. it would be a great deal of fun to nid-up a bastion. interesting. I mentioned a while ago that nids are likely to get the short end of the stick there - we like eating things. people don't like standing next to hungry beasties. not enough info to judge. Does that mean they don't get to shoot if they go into overwatch? what about BS enhancers? Eldar guide, fortune and so forth? what about primes joining warriors? what about flamers and heavy weapons? why not? it means Fexen are comparatively more useful, str 9/10 on the charge, while the Trygon has enough attacks with rerolled hits to not worry about it. The only ones that suffer are the Tyrant (which has a pretty high WS), the Harpy and Tervigon (which you generally don't want assaulting vehicles)... I'm just curious if my vehicle damage dice from 4th ed can be used again. My biggest curiosity is whether these supercede or supplement our existing powers. Supercede? Sucks. Supplement? Could be awesome... be ready to see MORE Eldar Vypers and DEldar Venoms I'm not sure I'm buying this one either. still too complex. How do you handle a shooting unit in a bow formation? multiple assaults? too many questions to make a solid judgement.
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Post by gloomfang on Jun 19, 2012 15:54:59 GMT
Nids get a buff with the longer assault range. I can see low-synapse armies being an interesting option to make your guys rage and charge farther. Trygon having a 26" threat range (6+d6+2d6+2) sounds pretty silly good. Kiting rage much harder and BA get a pretty big buff. Not sure where the extra 2" at the end is for on the trigon charge. However I hadn't thought about the range on fleet units. So outflanking stealers currently move 6+D6+6 so 13"-18" threat range. Now it will be 6+d6+2d6 on the charge (if there is still a run phase) so 9"-24"? So much for hiding out in the middle.
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Post by malebranche on Jun 19, 2012 15:55:07 GMT
Those rules sound horrible...
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Post by Geneva on Jun 19, 2012 16:14:32 GMT
2D6 assault range instead of choosing the highest? Called it!
I actually quite like these new rules although, as DA has mentioned, a few seem a little messy and either will have strict limitations or clarifications that could change the current overall interpretation of them. Also, let's not forget that WD is notorious for getting their rules wrong, especially during a new release.
The expansion of psychic powers is a welcome change as Synapse creatures may see a sudden boost in utility. 2D6 assault range is actually statistically better for us in most cases and the 'Warlord' rule is right up my alley fluffwise. We have a similar house rule where I game anyway (Although we allow our COs to purchase a USR for an agreed points cost).
The wound allocation is the only thing I don't like. It will probably be judged from the single nearest model in both squads. It's probably not going to be as disastrous as people are thinking (only so many units will be shooting directly in front of you, most casualties will probably be from the sides) but it still doesn't bode well for squishy assault units like Nids. Especially if cover and FNP are being downplayed.
The MC rule depends entirely on whether or not they cap it at S10. S12 Trygons sounds pretty impressive. Also if AP 1-3 affect the damage chart and MCs count as AP2 in combat, we could see an increased effectiveness in taking out tanks.
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Post by N.I.B. on Jun 19, 2012 16:16:24 GMT
Lots of things wrong with those changes. 6s to hit the razorwing, 5+ save on fast skimmers invalidates flickerfields, psychic power disciplines sound very odd and dont fit most armies. However, things like buying terrain and overwatch sound interesting. Nids get a buff with the longer assault range. I can see low-synapse armies being an interesting option to make your guys rage and charge farther. Trygon having a 26" threat range (6+d6+2d6+2) sounds pretty silly good. Kiting rage much harder and BA get a pretty big buff. Landspeeders get Jink, he wasn't completely sure on Fast Skimmers. Psychic power disciplines won't be accessable to most armies. Buying terrain sounds wide-open to abuse, expect tournaments to ban that rule. Overwatch - completely depends on whether Flamers can shoot too - if they can, it's goodnight Nids. Rage = one extra attack on the charge, provided you still get a bonus attack when charging. Hardly a big buff, partly because the bonus is only so-so, and partly because you don't have control over the ability. Hormagaunts would benefit the most, due to sheer numbers. From where comes the +2" on the Trygon charge? I'm getting excited though, but there are many many holes to fill yet. What is normal movement? Random game lenght? What does hull points do exactly? Move-Assault-Shooting is in? MC 2D6 armour pen still there? Reserve rules? Double S-T instakill?
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Post by zephoid on Jun 19, 2012 16:27:22 GMT
the longer distance is from rage, which we get whenever we fail IB: feed.
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