|
Post by N.I.B. on Jun 15, 2012 16:22:12 GMT
Except that there is no such rumour. Assault is rumoured to be 2D6", pick the highest. The addition of the normal movement is just a logical addition, made by me and several others.
|
|
|
Post by nalathani on Jun 15, 2012 17:30:07 GMT
Since we don't have a full set of rules to go by, we have to extrapolate on some of these rumors.
One of the things I saw on dakka that was very interesting was a guess as to how assault weapons will work in the world of move/assault/shoot.
Normally you would declare an assault, do your assault move (12 inches for infantry, 16 for bikes, 21 for cavalry/beasts), get into base to base, and then have your opponent pile in. However, if you have assault weapons, you do your assault move, and then before your opponent piles in, you shoot. Then after results of shooting are resolved, your opponent piles in.
This has very little effect on most of our units. Say, with Termagants, you'd move 6 inches, shoot, then move 6 inches again to assault. Still a 12 inch assault, still firing your fleshborers. No difference.
What it DOES affect are fleet units, and things like Raveners with really long charge ranges. No one shoots Containment Spines from their trygon, because it's better to run them to make sure you can get into CC. If you shoot after you've already assaulted, there's absolutely no reason not to shoot. Same goes for ravs. No one buys their guns because most likely you're going to run and then charge. If you can get into assault and then shoot, their guns suddenly become quite useful.
|
|
|
Post by omnivore on Jun 15, 2012 17:32:35 GMT
Assault before shooting makes Paroxysm less useful alas, since you can't charge the unit you hit with the Tyrant. It will still be good as a defensive or support power however.
|
|
|
Post by Obsidorox on Jun 15, 2012 17:45:45 GMT
That is assuming the ability still goes off in the shooting phase. If they add a separate psychic phase then it wouldn't change much.
|
|
|
Post by Davor on Jun 16, 2012 16:01:07 GMT
Read this on Dakka Dakka. www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/455813.pageNew rumors from Heresy Online.... Enjoy - Mez Hull points don’t work as rumored: they are only for front armor 14 vehicles and work like a structure point or a “wound” which can be used to negate any result, even wrecked or explodes. not sure if this is a once per game thing, i suspect so. but no more one shotting land raiders and monoliths with meltaguns Pens give +1 to all subsequent damage rolls in that shooting phase, so essentially after a pen all weapons shooting a vehicle become AP1. Rapid Fire: double tap up to 24” if stationary. 1 shot at 24" or 2 shots at 12" if moving. Relentless gives and extra shot at each range if stationary as well as the standard bonus. Power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat. Stunned results stack to weapon destroyed, extra armor negates 1 stun per turn, not sure on shaken. Strength vs Toughness chart changed to be like fantasy, so everything can be wounded on a 6. There's going to be a bunch of FAQ/erratas when it drops for all codices. Vehicles being hit in combat auto if stationary, 3+ is going 6", 5+ if going 12", 6+ if going flat out. Vehicles going flat out can only be hit on a max of 4+ with shooting, fliers hit on 6+. Damage results stack so shaken -> stun -> weapon -> immob -> wreck
|
|
|
Post by webebuggin on Jun 16, 2012 16:13:37 GMT
Holy smokes relentless is going to be disgusting on necrons with their lords granting it. Assault 3 24" guass weapons? whooohoo
|
|
|
Post by N.I.B. on Jun 16, 2012 21:08:01 GMT
Speculation is fun. So lets break it down a bit from a Tyranid POV:
Hull points don’t work as rumoured: they are only for front armour 14 vehicles and work like a structure point or a “wound” which can be used to negate any result, even wrecked or explodes. not sure if this is a once per game thing, i suspect so. but no more one shotting land raiders and monoliths with meltaguns -Bad, I guess. Zoanthropes usually only get once chance to pop a Raider before the TH/SS spills out and munch them up, and even our MC’s can struggle to pen AV14 enough times to take it down reliably. How bad depends on how many structure points they get. Previous rumours say Landraiders get 4. Oh my. At least according to these rumours Rhinos don’t get any.
and pens give +1 to all subsequent damage rolls in that shooting phase, so essentially after a pen all weapons shooting a vehicle become AP1 -Good. It depends a lot on the wording how good it will be – 3 shots from a unit of Hive Guards, say you get two pens and a glance. Can you roll one pen first to get the bonus +1 for the other two shots? Or will it only affect other units shooting at the vehicle in that phase?
rapid fire: double tap up to 24” if stationary. 1 shot at 24 or 2 shots at 12 if moving. Relentless gives and extra shot at each range if stationary as well as the standard bonus. - Bad, of course. Anything advantage not shared by Nids make us relatively weaker. Still, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you have to be disembarked to Rapid Fire. Disembarked, also called being in Tyranid land.
power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat. -Good (with a saving clause for what will happen to Rending). Tyranids don’t have Power Weapons, we have weapons that ignore armour (until we get an errata nerf ofc). It’s good because of 2+ save Hive Tyrants.
Stunned results stack to weapon destroyed, extra armour negates 1 stun per turn, not sure on shaken - Good. But I’m not sure how it works out. Every stun result is upgraded by 1 step for each stun result in the same shooting phase? I’m not sitting with a rulebook, can someone explain how that works out?
Strength vs toughness chart changed to be like fantasy, so everything can be wounded on a 6. -Good. We lack T7 so we don’t lose anything, and we gain S3 Gants wounding T7 C’tans, for instance.
there's going to be a bunch of FAQ/erratas when it drops for all codices -Confirming old rumours.
vehicles being hit in combat is auto if stationary, 3+ is going 6", 5+ if going 12", 6+ if going flat out - Good. Still a major improvement from today. But as I expected, not quite as good as the first rumours had it.
though, vehicles going flat out can only be hit on a max of 4+ with shooting, fliers hit on 6+ -Bad, but not too bad. Only affects Hive Guards a bit (our only credible anti-AV with higher than BS3 are Hive Guards). Fliers, who knows. I expect Harpy to be errata to a Flier, and only hit on 6’s with shooting would perhaps be enough to become viable. Getting an official model will also help.
Damage results stack so shaken -> stun -> weapon -> immob -> wreck -Good. But how does it differ from today? If I can roll on the damage table 5 times in the same phase I can be sure to get a wreck result, regardless of glance or pen? And we have no confirmation that immobilized vehicles that have lost all their weapons and get another Weapon Destroyed or Immobilized, is Wrecked. Like it works today.
Preferred enemy gives re-rolls to hit with shooting and in combat, but not the re-rolling of 1s to wound - Good. Not quite as good as the first rumour, but still huge. Prepare for a disappointing Nid errata that will say Old Adversary only affect close combat. Here’s to hoping it will at least start to work against vehicles!
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Jun 16, 2012 21:27:28 GMT
yeah these seemed even more short bus than the rest.
...which probably means they're true.
|
|
|
Post by Inquisitor Stingray on Jun 16, 2012 22:05:20 GMT
I too read some rumours on Powerweapons being AP3, which will make Terminators pretty damn tough. I do however suspect the wording on Boneswords will remain the same: No Armour Saves may be taken against them.
|
|
|
Post by Geneva on Jun 17, 2012 1:02:25 GMT
I too read some rumours on Powerweapons being AP3, which will make Terminators pretty damn tough. I do however suspect the wording on Boneswords will remain the same: No Armour Saves may be taken against them. That's a good point. Nids may actually be one of the few armies able to reliably take on 2+ armour in CC. Especially if the Instant Death rumours have any truth to them.
|
|
|
Post by N.I.B. on Jun 17, 2012 8:16:52 GMT
Yes like I said Tyranids don't have power weapons, we have weapons that ignore armour saves. So nothing really changes in that matchup for us. I find I usually rely on stacking massive wounds on Terminators and wait for those 1's, but it would be nice to retain the option of sending in AP 2 MC's or Boneswords.
|
|
|
Post by Jabberwocky on Jun 17, 2012 8:23:06 GMT
The problem is assault units in power armour can now carve through our save as before but also gain 5++s all round when we hit back with boneswords or MCs.
Though AP3... We still get FnP at a 5+ so I guess it balances.
|
|
|
Post by Geneva on Jun 17, 2012 18:46:31 GMT
I'll be interested to see how the Psychic decks work out. After all, if every Synapse creature is a psyker and all psykers gain access to basic powers...
|
|
|
Post by coredump on Jun 18, 2012 4:39:05 GMT
I am usually a rumor-monger when a new book is coming out. But this time it really seems like there are no decent rumors. They are flying around, but most don't make sense, and some are even internally contradictory; with almost no corroborating sources.
Makes me wonder what will eventually show up.
|
|
|
Post by the6thdegree on Jun 18, 2012 7:52:00 GMT
I was talking to a friend at the weekend and he mentioned that he heard a rumour of being able to assault from Deepstrike. Now I'm keeping up to date and haven't heard that - so lets not debate about it being accurate or not (we'll probably find out within a fortnight anyway), but it got me thinking...
If Nids were able to Assault out of Deepstrike, don't you think they immediately jump up in the competitive rankings? If it were the case, then all of a sudden a lot of units in the codex change viability (podded Warriors and Carnifexes would be pretty awesome, Trygons were always good - but their tunnels would be great for infantry). It could really shift around the codex and make popular units like Tervigons and Hive Guard less relied on.
It also makes our costings seem a little more reasonable...consider a dakkaFex (with AG's) podding in - its expensive. But now take into account it Assaulting from Deepstrike @s10 and still having its 12 dakka shots (however the Assault Weapon rule works). Similarly 200pts for a Trygon was always ok - but for it to pop up in the middle of the enemies deployment and Assault AND be followed up by tons of Assaulting Horms = win. I've now been daydreaming about this rule all weekend.
Also - did anyone see the rumours about wound allocation/removal at the end of the turn? Where you essentially remove the model with the least wounds left and places its remaining wounds onto another with wounds missing? I thought of Paladins and laughed....
|
|