Who Will Rule The Universe?

[Koyori]

There is no where in any codec that says the Hivemind is located in the warp as far as I know. If it where Im sure the chaos gods would be very intrested in it and it would have been mentioned in the chaos codec.

[Trygon]

A hive mind is the joint personalties of an entire tyranid fleet.

[shadowdragonswarm]

Yup, the Hivemind isn't a physical thing, its the psychic connection that all 'nids share, and in the codex somewhere, the people studying the 'nids are show surprise that they haven't attracted the attention of the demonic influences because of their vast psychicnes.

"The shadow in the warp" is the term used to describe how the tyranids are able to block psychic communication to and from a planet once they're in range of it.(also not a physical thing)

[romorini]

I always considered the shadow in the warp to be the result of the hive mind 'overloading' the airways with constant signals between its component parts. There is little doubt in my mind that the Hive Mind is at least partly a warp entity in that the warp is where all the networking occurs. It would be interesting if a Chaos God were to try and attack it. Could you imagine the reaction a large hive fleet would have to the assault?

I'm torn between every single tyranid freezing in its tracks to give strength to a psychic counter assault, and the psychic battle being represented as a fight between the Tyranids still under the Hive Mind's power and those tainted by the Chaos God.

One thing I've been wondering is how Chaos Gods actually work. Does the subject of their attentions need to be corruptible in the first place to be affected by them mentally?

[Voice of Reason]

Orks. yeah I know, I'm a heretic:

Let's say Tyranids sweep through the galaxy. it is CERTAIN that they will miss some small pockets here and there. considering how widespread the Orks are, some of these small pockets would be orks.

considering their incredible survivability, and the speed in which they grow into a sizeable force, there are no other races that would be able to resist them once a Waaagh formed.

besides, Tyranids don't care about ruling. they just want to have a nice salad and sandwich as they march along.

[carnogaunt]

n00b1n8r said:

No matter how fast the Tau are advancing I doubt they'd have the tech to rival the necrons before they are wiped out by the nids.

I don't think the Tyranids would really be able to take out the Tau empire. If a single Eldar craftworld could destroy an entire Hive Fleet and survive to tell about it, I think it would take a long time for them to destroy an entire empire.

Note that the main reason the Imperium is unable to fight off the Tyranids is because they are a) busy fighting off every other race in the galaxy, as well as each other b) they are spread out accross the galaxy because not every solor system has planets and not every planet is inhabitable. c) the Imperial Guard is separated from the Imperial Navy, so they have to wait for allied forces to come pick them up and carry them from planet to planet. Because of those last two facts they can't recieve reinforcements or redeploy their troops very quickly or efficiently and they often ignore Tyranid invasions that could easily be stopped.

The Tau are clustered in a thick pocket of inhabitable worlds. They can fight the Tyranids when and where they want to. Also, they care more about their citizens then their planets so they could just evacuate and fight in space if they needed to (while the Imperials would make a last stand and just focus on killing as much as possible before being dragged down and slaughtered).

And besides, the Tau homeworld is a desert so I don't think the Tyranids would want it anyway...

The Orks are more than capable of making their own stuff, they just don't like making the bits that are required to make the stuff (bullets, sheet metal etc) though grots can be "persuaded" to easy enough.

True, but I don't think their industry is advanced enough to supply guns and ammunition to every Ork in the horde without supplementary scrap material from other races. If you look in the Feral Ork army list, even they have access to large numbers of guns, just not as many as in the standard Ork list or the Speed Freek list.

I think that cron's will last forever in a perpetual battle with the nids.

No, the Tyranids would leave as soon as they realized they weren't gaining anything from fighting the Necrons.

If they've [the Necrons] lasted this long, what's to stop them lasting longer?

Being reduced to sludge by some kind of acid.

[LictorsRule!]

If the necrons can close off the warp(which is something the C'tan really want to do) then I'd vote chaos off.I know that is easier said then done though.

The real thing is the most powerful fractions don't really want to rule the universe. I say most powerful in my own opinion.

The Orks just want to fight.They're going to survive a very very long time if you ask me. One way or another they're hard to get rid of.

Necrons well they just work for the C'tan. You can't kill a C'tan basically, unless you are one (maybe that eldar weapon but whatever). We don't know how many there are and there's that whole pariah thing going on so more can be made. I think it's between these guys and tyranids and they don't have much against each other, so they focus on everyone else.

I really, really doubt Tau would win though.They are to small and they're not going to get past the eldar and necron in technology.How would the newest race get past the oldest races without them noticing and killing them.I think pretty much anyone can wipe them out if they just diverted their attention to them right now.

Tyranids won't kill everything most likely just because all that would be left is themselves.It wouldn't really matter to them though so maybe they would,they don't think like the C'tan who don't want to kill of their food supply.

@ carnogaunt , remember that was just a large splinter fleet of kraken that attacked the eldar. Anything of Behemoth or one of the Leviathan fleets size would utterly kill that craft world.(Or the tau if they were in the direct path of a main fleet)

BTW I voted necrons just because how the question is worded. They are the most likely to rule the universe IMO. Tyranids would just eat it and orks will just survive extinction.

[shadowdragonswarm]

The Tau are clustered in a thick pocket of inhabitable worlds. They can fight the Tyranids when and where they want to. Also, they care more about their citizens then their planets so they could just evacuate and fight in space if they needed to (while the Imperials would make a last stand and just focus on killing as much as possible before being dragged down and slaughtered).

And besides, the Tau homeworld is a desert so I don't think the Tyranids would want it anyway...

It doesn't matter to the tyranids, as long as that planet has biomass, they're going to get it. All they have to do is select what genes seem most appropirate to accomplish that task on that world, and the 'queens will start pumping out those eggs.

[carnogaunt]

vashthestampede said:

@ carnogaunt , remember that was just a large splinter fleet of kraken that attacked the eldar. Anything of Behemoth or one of the Leviathan fleets size would utterly kill that craft world.(Or the tau if they were in the direct path of a main fleet)

Remember the Battle for Maccrage?

If a single chapter of Space Marines can wipe out an entire hive fleet, then the Tau would be easily capable of doing so. Maybe 3-5 Behemoth-sized fleets attacking in waves would destroy their empire.

shadowdragonswarm said:

And besides, the Tau homeworld is a desert so I don't think the Tyranids would want it anyway...

It doesn't matter to the tyranids, as long as that planet has biomass, they're going to get it. All they have to do is select what genes seem most appropriate to accomplish that task on that world, and the 'queens will start pumping out those eggs.

Yeah, but an agri-world would be better for gaining biomass, and a death world (like Catachan) would be better for gathering DNA. It's a decent choice, but not the most appealing of all the worlds out there.

[shadowdragonswarm]

Macragge also had titans, an imperial fleet, the first company was formed into terminator squads, with "the best weapons of the imperium", the planet had tons of defense lasers, (basically was a fortress world), and even ships "hurling megatons of death from above".

The SMs are a lil more threatenig then the tau, and besides,you know all the fluff is for SMs and for the most part like to downplay the 'nids.

[carnogaunt]

shadowdragonswarm said:

Macragge also had titans, an imperial fleet, the first company was formed into terminator squads, with "the best weapons of the imperium", the planet had tons of defense lasers, (basically was a fortress world), and even ships "hurling megatons of death from above".

Yes, some Titans, but the fleet spent most of the battle away from the planet chasing down the fleeing hive ships. The ones that "hurled...megatons of death" were "crippled" ships that had to be left behind when Calgar sent the Ultramarines' fleet off.

It only had two fortresses, one on the north pole and one on the south pole.

"The best personal weaponry in the Imperium?" Well that doesn't say much... They had, what? Storm Bolters? The basic Tau foot soldier has a better gun.

The Tau defeated an Imperial crusade once or twice before. So if the Space Marines could defeat the Tyranids, and the Tau could defeat the Space Marines, then in theory the Tau could defeat the Tyranids.

[n00b1n8R]

you seem to be a fan of the tau ey carnogaunt? all i can say is "horses for courses". (the may be good against SMurfs, but idk how they'd fare against nids. there's even a tau quote in the dex saying how tough we are)

anyway, i still think that the nids will win the battle on this galexy.
i consider the hive mind to be the ultimate calculator. ultimately meticulous, un-unnervingly ruthless. it never misses a planet. it scouts out every possible source of life (even a tiny space station) and has a plan for every possible reaction to the enemy (and any reaction they'd have to the plan with a plan for them etc. if it knows it's going to loose then it will aim to take as many with it as possible)

there is no force in the galexy able to withstand a full offensive from every single hive fleet. there is far more tyranids then there are every combat capable species in the universe.

not the tau, not the imperium, not the traitor legions, not the eldar, not even the orks.

the only ones that will have a chance are the crons and even they will be in a perpetual war until the nids leave this galaxy (are there crons in other galaxy's? if so, mb nids have faced them before?).

the nids will ultimately win in this galexy. mb one day they will be destroyed by an even stronger race (there's allways a bigger fish in the sea) but that is not going to happen in this one.

that is what i think will win. the only species that will truely get what they want are nids and orks (WAAAAGH!!!), not the tau (unless you count unification by digestation as a moral victory).

n00b out (da da daaa!!)

[Trygon]

Tau will die as quickly as they rose. There is too few of them to conquer an entire galaxy. They are as good as screwed if you think about it. Like Eldar they are also extremely arragont, and look what happened to the Eldar. "We are the greatest....arhhhh my face!"

[adamwelton]

Hive fleets have been known to avoid Necron worlds for whatever reason (nothing to consume? Scary soulless metal warriors too much even for the Hive Mind?), and 'Rons have been trying to keep warp gates like the Eye of Terror shut with the pylons on Cadia. These were the things Abbadon was trying to destroy during the 13th crusade in order to allow the Eye to expand and Chaos to overtake the galaxy.

Chaos wants to open a huge rift between the warp and realspace allowing the Chaos gods and all their minions out, the Tyranids want to devour everything organic, and 'Rons want to enslave every living being in the universe (ie, not daemonic) for their masters. I discount the Eldar, Imperium, Tau and Orks as these wouldn't last long if the three principal enemies put their minds to it (not collectively mind you). The Imperium won't co-operate with anyone, the Eldar have been trying to save themselves/cover mankind's mistakes AND aid the Tau's expansion, Orks will fight everyone and the Tau haven't got a clue what they're really doing (the "greater good"? What's that all about then?).

If the Imperium collapsed, all three major protagonists would expand so rapidly that they would reduce the universe to a three-way ruck with everyone else in between. The Tyranids would try to consume what organic matter was left, Chaos would unleash daemons to eliminate them and the 'Rons would be attempting to stop both the Hive from consuming their masters' food supply AND to shut Chaos out.

Don't forget that the 'Rons are part of the material universe, not of the warp. They have no warp signature (no "souls". See: Pariahs). The Hive Mind (not fleet) occupies a massive chunk of the warp which even confuses Chaos, and Chaos is a warp invention which wants to open a galaxy-sized Eye of Terror in the universe and enslave every organic being to provide a greater supply of "belief" for their gods' return.

I think that ultimately the Hive mind would run out of organic matter and be beaten in a war of attrition by the other two. The 'Rons would run out of warriors in planet-sized battles with untold daemons long before the C'Tan could prevent it, and the Chaos Gods would manifest themselves in short order once mankind came apart. Now wouldn't THAT be the Scrap-at-the-End-of-the-Universe?

This is all just my opinion of course, some of the info contained therein gleaned from available sources . Anyone else got a bit of an essay to back their ideas up?

[Trygon]

Thats how it would end. Well done.