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Post by shadowfinder on Feb 25, 2015 20:51:58 GMT
I was thinking about how do make Full null deployment list like in 5th. With a lot of tournament allowing CTA allies now I think I have found the way to do it.
For as little as 145 points you can have a Space Wolf Troop, HQ, and the drop pod.
Of course you have to go 2nd for it to be a real Null deploy list. But it works. What do you al think about this? is 145 to 155 points worth trying that style of play?
Is it workable?
List example.
+++ Wolf and Nid hunting pack (1850pts) +++
++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]
Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]
Hive Tyrant [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]
+ Troops +
Mucolid Spore Cluster [Mucolid Spore]
Ripper Swarm Brood
3x Ripper Swarm [3x Deep Strike]
+ Fast Attack +
Gargoyle Brood
20x Gargoyle [20x Adrenal Glands]
Ravener Brood
Ravener [Deathspitter, Rending Claws]
Ravener [Deathspitter, Rending Claws]
Ravener [Deathspitter, Rending Claws]
Ravener [Deathspitter, Rending Claws]
Ravener [Deathspitter, Rending Claws]
Ravener [Deathspitter, Rending Claws]
+ Heavy Support +
Carnifex Brood
Carnifex [Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms]
Carnifex Brood
Carnifex [Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms]
Trygon Prime [The Reaper of Obliterax]
++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (Allied Detachment) ++
+ HQ +
Wolf Guard Battle Leader
Power Armour [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]
+ Troops +
Blood Claws
5x Blood Claw [5x Bolt Pistol, 4x Chainsword, Meltagun]
Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
Ok you can drop the trygon for another Fex or something else. Go with more troops in pods. You can play with a lot of option. Bring a bastion and man it with a spore mine for reserve bonus's.
Can see a lot of ideas here .
So any thought on how this could work or not work?
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Post by gigasnail on Feb 25, 2015 22:49:09 GMT
Why is the SW contingent even there?
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Post by Freeman on Feb 25, 2015 22:52:59 GMT
The wolves are just so you can actually null deploy and not just lose at the end of turn one. I don't think it will be particularly effective to be honest as the wolves should got shot up badly when they're the only thing on the table.
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Post by gigasnail on Feb 25, 2015 22:54:23 GMT
The wolves are just so you can actually null deploy and not just lose at the end of turn one. I don't think it will be particularly effective to be honest as the wolves should got shot up badly when they're the only thing on the table. Concur. A pod, an IC, and some scouts on the table is all that stands between you and getting tabled. |
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Post by gigasnail on Feb 25, 2015 23:06:28 GMT
For giggles, at 1850 you could try the BA triple storm raven formation that starts rolling for reserves (with rerolls) turn 1, along with the leviathan formation, triple flyrants, and either mucolids for line blockers or rippers for scoring. Points will be tight; the SR formation tops a out at like 1k iirc (3 SR, 3 10 man TAC squads, each has to carry a homing beacon). The SR formation can also assault T1 if two of them are within 12" of each other. They're TAC squads, sure, but you can carry a flamer, heavy fkamer, and two hand flamers on the sgt. Expensive for sure, but it's certainly somethibe different.
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Post by gigasnail on Feb 26, 2015 3:00:05 GMT
did this up on army builder:
1850 Nids/BA
leviathan detachment
X3 egrub dakka flyrant
X3 mucolids
BA angel's fury spearhead
X3 stormraven, MM
TAC squad, X10. flamer, heavy flamer, sgt w/ bolt pistol/hand flamer/locator beacon
TAC squad, X10. flamer, heavy flamer, sgt w/ bolt pistol/hand flamer/locator beacon
TAC squad, X10. flamer, heavy flamer, sgt w/ bolt pistol/chainsword/locator beacon
could do a CAD instead of leviathan to get you some more boots on the ground, so do X2 flyrant, and 285 points of w/e your heart desires so long as it deep strikes. the BA are all objective secured w/ the formation rules, and the TAC squads can assault out of reserve so long as two of the squads are within 12" of each other. they start coming in on turn 1 on a 3+ with re-rolls to reserves.
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Post by shadowfinder on Feb 26, 2015 3:57:35 GMT
Why is the SW contingent even there? First off sorry if I am unclear got hurt and I am no pain meds and pain;  The why they are there is that they allow me to reserve all the nids if I wish if I go 2nd. The list can still deploy as normal if I am forced to go first. The idea is to in a way get the alpha strike. I know good players can wait and see what will happen. But it is hard even for great players not to want to move their units for two turns. Dropping Tyranids all around them and getting to limit their return fire by one less then ours is very good. Also Nids are good at close to Mid. range fire fights. Even wave serpents are not getting away easily. If they go all out to get away. They are not shooting at you and you are in a good place to assault with your faster units. Castling doesn't work well Vs this as we get close to fast for them. I used Wolves because that is what I have around that I can barrow. I don't play anything but xenos so I didn't have the other books handy. If I was to go for a more mixed list I would go with Thunderwolf Cav. as the are a great counter to IK. which the nids lack. |
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Post by gigasnail on Feb 26, 2015 4:31:16 GMT
yeah i got that, just a pod with 6 guys in it is asking to get kicked in the jimmy. that's not an alpha strike, i dunno it even qualifies as a stiff breeze. the one pod with its guys shows up turn 1, and the entire enemy's army gets to shoot it. if it dies, you loose.
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Post by shadowfinder on Feb 26, 2015 4:46:10 GMT
yeah i got that, just a pod with 6 guys in it is asking to get kicked in the jimmy. that's not an alpha strike, i dunno it even qualifies as a stiff breeze. the one pod with its guys shows up turn 1, and the entire enemy's army gets to shoot it. if it dies, you loose. Ok that was fast. They can kill the drop pod all they want on the 2nd turn. I lose 35 points. The rest of my army comes in with me getting to hit with almost everything I have on their side of the board. I have denied two round of shooting for them. I get to shoot to full effect first. Now a different army configureation could work better. the cheap HQ and small 5 man squad hold the back field better then most of our troop choices. It is a very aggressive way to play. I played this way in 5th to great success in my local area. Many people have not faced nothing to shoot for two turns. I will admite it can use some work but I feel it is a idea. can you take a cheaper base unit in SM or BA or is it the same price point whys. |
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Post by shadowfinder on Feb 26, 2015 5:05:46 GMT
yeah i got that, just a pod with 6 guys in it is asking to get kicked in the jimmy. that's not an alpha strike, i dunno it even qualifies as a stiff breeze. the one pod with its guys shows up turn 1, and the entire enemy's army gets to shoot it. if it dies, you loose. This list packs a lot more punch with the Leviathan Format. It has a little more punch from the wolves while still being able to start off the board null style if you get 2nd turn as well. +++ Wolf and Nid hunting pack (1845pts) +++ ++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) Leviathan format) ++ + No Force Org Slot + Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters] Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters] + HQ + Hive Tyrant [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings] Hive Tyrant [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings] Hive Tyrant [Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings] + Troops + Mucolid Spore Cluster [Mucolid Spore] Mucolid Spore Cluster [Mucolid Spore] Mucolid Spore Cluster [Mucolid Spore] + Heavy Support + Carnifex Brood Carnifex [Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms] Carnifex Brood Carnifex [Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms] ++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (Allied Detachment) ++ + HQ + Harald Deathwolf, Lord of the Wolfkin + Troops + Blood Claws 5x Blood Claw [5x Bolt Pistol, 4x Chainsword, Meltagun] Drop Pod [Storm Bolter] + Fast Attack + Thunderwolf Cavalry Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield] Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield] Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield] Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield] Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader [Storm Shield, Wolf Claw] Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net) |
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Post by gigasnail on Feb 26, 2015 5:29:54 GMT
yeah i got that, just a pod with 6 guys in it is asking to get kicked in the jimmy. that's not an alpha strike, i dunno it even qualifies as a stiff breeze. the one pod with its guys shows up turn 1, and the entire enemy's army gets to shoot it. if it dies, you loose. Ok that was fast. They can kill the drop pod all they want on the 2nd turn. I lose 35 points. The rest of my army comes in with me getting to hit with almost everything I have on their side of the board. I have denied two round of shooting for them. I get to shoot to full effect first. Now a different army configureation could work better. the cheap HQ and small 5 man squad hold the back field better then most of our troop choices. It is a very aggressive way to play. I played this way in 5th to great success in my local area. Many people have not faced nothing to shoot for two turns. I will admite it can use some work but I feel it is a idea. can you take a cheaper base unit in SM or BA or is it the same price point whys. ok one of us is misunderstanding something; either i'm not sure what you're trying to do, or you're not understanding the reserve rules. if you're doing a 'true' null deploy like in the title, you reserve everything in your army. turn 1, pod comes in, and unless you go 2nd, it will most likely die, along with the six guys in it because this is pretty easy to do. then you loose because you have nothing on the table at the end of a game turn. |
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Post by shadowfinder on Feb 26, 2015 8:36:15 GMT
I understand. the rule. I would only Full Null reserve if I went 2nd.We can't do a full reserve at this point in time. This would give us the option if we go 2nd.
The list can deploy normally if need be and still have deep strike option. But having the option to null is the point of the list. It would just die as you have said as a drop pod and 6 guys is pretty easy to do away with.
So I was asking was it worth having the option? 145 pt for a av12 objective sitter and a small 3+ armor unit hiding in back while the rest of the army focus's on killing things. Yes you can make it a little more killy. Some of the other army books may have a formation of something that work better or is cheaper I don't know. I was seeing if this would// cloud be different//decent a option//tactic. It is a idea i have never heard someone talk about yet on this forum that I know of.
If it is Good not good I don't know. But I thought I throw it out there.
The idea for this came to me after running across some of my old army list from 5th when all I played was null deployment. Man my list where very different from what I run now. So very different..... I miss the old days...
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Post by shadowfinder on Feb 26, 2015 18:32:53 GMT
Hears a thought. Dark angels can pick when they come in 1st or 2nd turn. would 420 to 450 points of Termanators with 2+//3++ worth it.  |
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Post by glassiya on Feb 26, 2015 18:44:37 GMT
I understand. the rule. I would only Full Null reserve if I went 2nd.We can't do a full reserve at this point in time. This would give us the option if we go 2nd. The problem is, if your opponent decides who's going first, he's doing it AFTER your deployment, if I remember correctly. Go figure. If you want to go niddy "null deployment", you'd better go for infiltrators. |
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Post by gigasnail on Feb 26, 2015 19:56:48 GMT
Hears a thought. Dark angels can pick when they come in 1st or 2nd turn. would 420 to 450 points of Termanators with 2+//3++ worth it. My friend plays DA a lot, I butcher him. I cant really recommend them, they come in and just don't do a lot, not for those points. There are ways to do what you're wanting to do but dropping in 6 guys in a pod wouldn't be how I'd do it. If you're bringing CtA allies already, find something stiffer to jam down their throats. |
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