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Post by luke1705 on Mar 2, 2015 1:20:54 GMT
Well that is a very good reason haha. Even so, you can get 6 or so units of mucolids and spores combined (assuming you need like 3 obsec troops), which increases to 9 if you can self-ally. The spores are easy to hide and the mucolids are shrouded, so if you're not looking at super competitive lists, very rarely will you need to deploy more than that anyhow.
Try to root up the list that Sean played for the 11th company tournament. He only had a single CAD with 2 Flyrants and allied in the Deathleaper Assassin brood for the ridiculous total of 9 Lictor units
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Post by shadowfinder on Mar 2, 2015 1:56:47 GMT
Even super competitive lists will have issues finding 6 to 9 units that are hiding all over the board. It is a good play type but it is not one that a lot of people feel comfortable playing. It will be interesting to see how the list change for Tyranid players. As well as the meta to counter this rarely seen style.
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Post by gigasnail on Mar 2, 2015 3:30:42 GMT
null-deploy/pods up your 4th point of contact was my preferred playing style in 5th.
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Post by shadowfinder on Mar 2, 2015 7:04:03 GMT
null-deploy/pods up your 4th point of contact was my preferred playing style in 5th. How do you take this list. The Swarmlord is in the list for the +1 to reserves and tor the extra power dice/powers. I don't have a bastion either. I dislike the idea of Nids using building in their list as it doesn't feel right to me. But for a tournament I could be talked in to it. What is better a reroll or +1 to reserves? This list has a lot of cheap units making it hard to kill first turn and I can add or take away the number I place depending on opponent. the funny thing is the biovores can produce more units first turn id they miss. This list is very aggressive and can drop anywhere on the board. Thought or ideas on matchup would b help thanks. +++ normal cad + Leviathan 1850 (1850pts) +++ ++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++ + No Force Org Slot + Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters] Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters] Tyrant Guard Brood Tyrant Guard [Scything Talons] + HQ + Hive Tyrant [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings] The Swarmlord + Troops + Ripper Swarm Brood 3x Ripper Swarm [3x Deep Strike] Ripper Swarm Brood 3x Ripper Swarm [3x Deep Strike] + Heavy Support + Carnifex Brood Carnifex [Spine Banks, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms] Carnifex Brood Carnifex [Spine Banks, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms] Trygon Prime [The Reaper of Obliterax] ++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Hive Fleet Detachement) ++ + HQ + Hive Tyrant [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings] + Troops + Mucolid Spore Cluster [Mucolid Spore] Mucolid Spore Cluster [Mucolid Spore] Mucolid Spore Cluster [Mucolid Spore] + Fast Attack + Spore Mine Cluster [3x Spore Mine] Spore Mine Cluster [3x Spore Mine] Spore Mine Cluster [3x Spore Mine] + Heavy Support + Biovore Brood [Biovore] Biovore Brood [Biovore] Biovore Brood [Biovore]
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Post by gigasnail on Mar 2, 2015 8:10:02 GMT
folks warble back and forth on biovores for general use (level of mech and 2+ saves kind of mitigates their usefulness, still they're good for just forcing tons of saves on anything in the open). i'm of a mixed mind on them; i use mawlocks for what i used to use biovores for but they're not bad in any case. we may see biovores come back because of crons; i lean more towards mawlocks for the solution to decurion crons walking but that's another discussion and i havent' got to play against newcrons yet.
i am not a fan of the trygon prime; it's a lot of points to get erased (moreso with the reaper). it will (should?) get targeted because it has to be dealt with, and it's not really very durable by iteself. you can park it in cover when it pops out, but a 4+ cover really doesn't cut it compared to 2+ shrouded. does it do work for you? i can't see it surviving here, it's going to pop up and die. if i was going to run one, i'd run one with a malanthrope, but i'd probably run a dima + malanthrope pair up the board before i'd run a reaper trygon. i guess it's 2 glances on average to rear AV10 if you can slip it in for a keyhole shot. for the points, that's another flyrant and then some.
i'm not a fan of the swarmlord either. bastion w/ coms relay is better for reserves, but doesn't punch things in the jimmy or have ML3 buffs. bastion also doesn't die to bolters, comes with guns, and is a lot cheaper. normal reserves on 3+ is 67%, SL with +1 to reserves is 83%, bastion w/ coms relay reroll is 88%. my book is packed up from game last weekend, but iirc you can re-roll *any* reserve roll w/ the coms relay, not just unsuccessful ones, in case you need to keep something off the table.
i do agree w/ you on not caring for nids having forts; it's a playstyle thing. shouldn't really look at it like that i guess; even imperial forts are air-dropped in and hastily assembled. it's not like we're talking the nid version of the masada. they're silly useful, for sure.
rest of the list looks like it should do what it's supposed to do. you can free up a lot of points by dropping swarmy and the trygon. add a 3rd flyrant, a bastion, and you'll still have points left over.
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Post by Jabberwocky on Mar 2, 2015 8:17:17 GMT
Bastion is quite easy to 'Nid up'. Just a model a kind of termite mound. It could be a synapse node or incubation chamber that has been dropped then hidden under the surface to protect it.
You can double it up as terrain then in other games.
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Post by gigasnail on Mar 2, 2015 8:18:05 GMT
yeah there have been some stellar conversions, dig around the conversion thread for pics.
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Post by gauntlet on Mar 2, 2015 13:35:05 GMT
null-deploy/pods up your 4th point of contact was my preferred playing style in 5th. How do you take this list. The Swarmlord is in the list for the +1 to reserves and tor the extra power dice/powers. I don't have a bastion either. I dislike the idea of Nids using building in their list as it doesn't feel right to me. But for a tournament I could be talked in to it. What is better a reroll or +1 to reserves? This list has a lot of cheap units making it hard to kill first turn and I can add or take away the number I place depending on opponent. the funny thing is the biovores can produce more units first turn id they miss. This list is very aggressive and can drop anywhere on the board. Thought or ideas on matchup would b help thanks. +++ normal cad + Leviathan 1850 (1850pts) +++ ++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++ + No Force Org Slot + Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters] Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters] Tyrant Guard Brood Tyrant Guard [Scything Talons] + HQ + Hive Tyrant [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings] The Swarmlord + Troops + Ripper Swarm Brood 3x Ripper Swarm [3x Deep Strike] Ripper Swarm Brood 3x Ripper Swarm [3x Deep Strike] + Heavy Support + Carnifex Brood Carnifex [Spine Banks, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms] Carnifex Brood Carnifex [Spine Banks, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms] Trygon Prime [The Reaper of Obliterax] ++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Hive Fleet Detachement) ++ + HQ + Hive Tyrant [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings] + Troops + Mucolid Spore Cluster [Mucolid Spore] Mucolid Spore Cluster [Mucolid Spore] Mucolid Spore Cluster [Mucolid Spore] + Fast Attack + Spore Mine Cluster [3x Spore Mine] Spore Mine Cluster [3x Spore Mine] Spore Mine Cluster [3x Spore Mine] + Heavy Support + Biovore Brood [Biovore] Biovore Brood [Biovore] Biovore Brood [Biovore] I was going to suggest that, first turn, just bring some Biovores and minimum temporary Synapse anchor such as Venom cloaked, jinking Flying Hive Tyrant. It would be fluffy to think of them as not really part of the battle, especially if the models are not on the board because they're hidden in a building. Their only visible contribution would be, long range artillery or orbital bombardment, coming from off the board. Deliberately blocking their line of sight means more deep strike units are generated by them. All those spores could foul up fire corridors for your opponent, and restrict enemy movement, potentially increasing effectiveness of null deployment stratagem.
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Post by shadowfinder on Mar 2, 2015 16:05:49 GMT
folks warble back and forth on biovores for general use (level of mech and 2+ saves kind of mitigates their usefulness, still they're good for just forcing tons of saves on anything in the open). i'm of a mixed mind on them; i use mawlocks for what i used to use biovores for but they're not bad in any case. we may see biovores come back because of crons; i lean more towards mawlocks for the solution to decurion crons walking but that's another discussion and i havent' got to play against newcrons yet. i am not a fan of the trygon prime; it's a lot of points to get erased (moreso with the reaper). it will (should?) get targeted because it has to be dealt with, and it's not really very durable by iteself. you can park it in cover when it pops out, but a 4+ cover really doesn't cut it compared to 2+ shrouded. does it do work for you? i can't see it surviving here, it's going to pop up and die. if i was going to run one, i'd run one with a malanthrope, but i'd probably run a dima + malanthrope pair up the board before i'd run a reaper trygon. i guess it's 2 glances on average to rear AV10 if you can slip it in for a keyhole shot. for the points, that's another flyrant and then some. i'm not a fan of the swarmlord either. bastion w/ coms relay is better for reserves, but doesn't punch things in the jimmy or have ML3 buffs. bastion also doesn't die to bolters, comes with guns, and is a lot cheaper. normal reserves on 3+ is 67%, SL with +1 to reserves is 83%, bastion w/ coms relay reroll is 88%. my book is packed up from game last weekend, but iirc you can re-roll *any* reserve roll w/ the coms relay, not just unsuccessful ones, in case you need to keep something off the table. i do agree w/ you on not caring for nids having forts; it's a playstyle thing. shouldn't really look at it like that i guess; even imperial forts are air-dropped in and hastily assembled. it's not like we're talking the nid version of the masada. they're silly useful, for sure. rest of the list looks like it should do what it's supposed to do. you can free up a lot of points by dropping swarmy and the trygon. add a 3rd flyrant, a bastion, and you'll still have points left over Unfortunately I can't use forge world for the next two tournaments. The reaper trygon is crazy expensive but I have a cool conversion for him. Plus I have a bet that I can't make him work with a guy. SO here is to proving him wrong. With the Swarmlord I can give him preferred enemy which makes more like his old self. For 5% diffrance on reserves I'll think about it. For a grand tournament I may go the bastion. But for the local stuff I will go my own play style with swarmy for fun. I feel 2 tyrants is good. I know 5 is unbalanced and 4 is probably too. 3 is a option but I like looking at different models on the table. I am a big fan of highlander format. But no one in the area here runs one yet. You have some good thought and will explore them over the next few weeks. I have a poll up in the Army list section if you want to look at 3 list I have put together. all of them have a trygon in them because of the bet.
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Post by shadowfinder on Mar 2, 2015 18:40:00 GMT
One quick question. What warlord table should be used with Null deployment? The go to table only really has only two traits that are good maybe 3.....
I am thinking one of the other BRB tables would be better. Leviathans table is not to bad if you are running the detachment.
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Post by Silegy on Mar 2, 2015 21:13:51 GMT
did this up on army builder: 1850 Nids/BA leviathan detachment X3 egrub dakka flyrant X3 mucolids BA angel's fury spearhead X3 stormraven, MM TAC squad, X10. flamer, heavy flamer, sgt w/ bolt pistol/hand flamer/locator beacon TAC squad, X10. flamer, heavy flamer, sgt w/ bolt pistol/hand flamer/locator beacon TAC squad, X10. flamer, heavy flamer, sgt w/ bolt pistol/chainsword/locator beacon Disgusting...ly arousing....
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Post by shadowfinder on Mar 3, 2015 6:52:04 GMT
I been going over the warlord traits and it seams to me the Command Traits table is the best table to pick from for Null deployment style list. While Strategic Traits has the reroll trait but the rest don't really help the list at all.
The command table only has one that's not any good. and it not bad we just have it already. The rest help with one faze or another. What do you guys think about the warlord tables.
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Post by Jabberwocky on Mar 3, 2015 7:16:41 GMT
Well, Stealth ruins is always nice.
Nightfighting you can choose to have on turn 5 instead of turn 1 (where it would be wasted mostly) but it's not a big deal.
Reducing enemy reserve rolls could be major as the counter to null deployment when going second is often to reserve units to protect them from the Alpha/beta strike and you could force the opponent into coming in piecemeal.
Infiltrate is always a nice option, even if it's just having more places to hide the few things you have to put on the board, maybe guaranteeing their survival. Can't remember but possibly having outflank from it as well might be a nice option to free up some tyrannocytes and increase target saturation.
Reserve re-roll is pretty simple.
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Post by shadowfinder on Mar 3, 2015 16:54:48 GMT
Well, Stealth ruins is always nice. Nightfighting you can choose to have on turn 5 instead of turn 1 (where it would be wasted mostly) but it's not a big deal. Reducing enemy reserve rolls could be major as the counter to null deployment when going second is often to reserve units to protect them from the Alpha/beta strike and you could force the opponent into coming in piecemeal. Infiltrate is always a nice option, even if it's just having more places to hide the few things you have to put on the board, maybe guaranteeing their survival. Can't remember but possibly having outflank from it as well might be a nice option to free up some tyrannocytes and increase target saturation. Reserve re-roll is pretty simple. I thought the same. Tell I looked at my Null list and how the work in general. Stealth night fight is only on the first turn when only the spore mines are on the table. So not really useful. Stealth ruins is good. The reroll for reserves is very good for a null list. -1 reserve rolls for vs. most armies is not that good really. Most armies have no reserves unless fliers. The pinning is just bad. The Master of ambush is useless as I am deep striking or reserving everything already. So out of the 6 traits only two are useful good. Compare that to the Command traits. The first allows your units to have LD 10 for test in a 12' bubble. This works vs. leadership teat or take a wound attacks and such things. Instant killing a Fex with that power is not as likely now. The next make the enemy units test on the lowest LD in the unit. Our scream, and Horror powers work better with this. Also if you remember fear test. The move though cover power we have so its not that great. Not bad but useless for us. The next gives us +1 inch to our run charge rolls. Can be use full after we land. The 5th trait is rerolls all 1 to hit in the shooting in a 12 ' bubble. In my mind that is huge for our units that don't have twin linked. the 6th trait is reroll all 1's to hit in assault. in a 12' bubble. So the give a kind of preferred enemy to any combat unit that nearby they tyrant. that's pretty good to me. 5 out of 6 are decent to very good. Compared with Strategic with only 2 that are good . The Command traits just seam better to me for a Null type list. The chance of getting one of 2 useful trait vs. getting 1 or 5 seams better to me. Why these are good to me? Before the Flyrants would be up the board alone but now.....The tyrant is going to be right up around the action, if he was setting back by himself then these wouldn't any good. But he is not. Null list put your army right in the opponents face and the warlord is right their too.. I'm I wrong or missing something in this reasoning? Please point out.
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Post by N.I.B. on Mar 4, 2015 7:11:33 GMT
I don't see the appeal of Command Traits, unless you have a close combat focused army, which in itself is a handicap.
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