We've been misreading the rules: Revisit the Maleceptor
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Post by neomangas on Dec 1, 2014 12:11:10 GMT
zoanthropes are more reliable for me! yes there is a psychic test and all that... but... S10 Lance AP2 makes sure things go away or at least if a tank survives it is penetrated and thus suffering something that makes it useless a turn. also those thropes have a good marine killer alternative to the lance which generate much more hits then the HG 6 shots at bs3 hardly is enough to make any damage unless it is rear... bs3 really hurt them in my opinion, maybe if you could field more in a brood or if they up the guns to assault , but yeah it was sad
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Post by Yautja on Dec 1, 2014 12:14:41 GMT
zoanthropes are more reliable for me! yes there is a psychic test and all that... but... S10 Lance AP2 makes sure things go away or at least if a tank survives it is penetrated and thus suffering something that makes it useless a turn. also those thropes have a good marine killer alternative to the lance which generate much more hits then the HG 6 shots at bs3 hardly is enough to make any damage unless it is rear... bs3 really hurt them in my opinion, maybe if you could field more in a brood or if they up the guns to assault , but yeah it was sad Not comparable really. The whole point of HG is they ignore jink/cover.
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Post by neomangas on Dec 1, 2014 12:53:09 GMT
but thats the point HG are only excelling in one thing... against Jinkers... cover saves are not as big a problem as High armored vehicles... the whole "they don't need LOS" gag for HG is just not enough to sell them for me especially since they need a babysitter... on top of that Zoanthropes can get away with that now to an extent since only one out of the brood needs LOS they are also easier to hide... the haywire gun was also such a disappointment!
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Post by Yautja on Dec 1, 2014 13:13:07 GMT
Don't get me wrong, I do like Zoans, but HG's shooting does feel very different on the table. Not needing LOS and having an extra 6" range make a difference in real terms for me. Yes S10 Lance is far better than S8 but not being able to be denied by warp dice/cover/jink balances things out a lot, especially against targets enjoying nightfighting/stealth/shrouding to magnify matters.
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Post by yowster12 on Dec 1, 2014 13:16:55 GMT
but thats the point HG are only excelling in one thing... against Jinkers... cover saves are not as big a problem as High armored vehicles... the whole "they don't need LOS" gag for HG is just not enough to sell them for me especially since they need a babysitter... on top of that Zoanthropes can get away with that now to an extent since only one out of the brood needs LOS they are also easier to hide... the haywire gun was also such a disappointment! Another selling point is the cost difference. To achieve the same amount of shots a Zoan brood would need 6 and cost about 300pts. Also you always get to shoot your Hive Guard and there is no denying them. Survivability is really good on both units so it really depends on what compliments your army better.
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Post by dc0315 on Dec 1, 2014 14:12:16 GMT
Tbh zoans cover more threats, u have the blast which is great against anything really, ap3, kills marines and when u need the lance uve got it. Hive guard u only have 6 shots at bs3 while with 3 hlasts u can get much more wounds and ignoring armour svaes vs marines. However, if you take 1 unit of hive guard and putting them out of LOS they can take out skimmers, which are much more common nowadays and removing that 4+/3+ jink is GOLD. I feel that we have with what to take out normal vehicles, we can use the egrubs which every1 take on their flyrants, dakka, crones and smash that can all take out normal vehicles, its the 1s that are too fast for us to get close to or have too good a cover save that are the problem and I feel that 1 unit of h.guard are essential in our meta nowadays with d.eldar skimmers, eldar skimmers, tau, stuff getting shrouding, stuff going to ground, its become quite essential. I got his rear because all I had on the table were 3 mawlocs surrounding a comms behind an aegis and in a ruin, he wanted to try kill all 3 so id have nothing on the table and hed win. He also underestimated the hive guard, something he wudnt do again. However if hed have stayed on the edge it still wudve been pretty good as id have deep striked everything (2 tfexs with egrubs, 2 flyrants, 40 gargoyles all poisoned and the h.guard) wudve concentrated fire on 1 , with 2 tfexs and a flyrant, popped it, gargs fire at munchies inside, then the other flyrant and unit of h, guard pop another, other gargs kill munchies and so on so that turn 3 those mawlocs which he wouldnt have killed had he not moved up were free to boast any munchies left and the gargoyles would have assaulted the wraithknights, they had poisoned 4+ he gave up turn 3!
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Post by andy089 on Dec 1, 2014 18:37:21 GMT
Well seems like we went WAY off topic here.
Is the discussion about witchfire powers settle with "we agree to disagree"?
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Post by sajeel on Dec 1, 2014 19:09:47 GMT
Yea, a couple pages back I made an argument in a manner no one else did, and It was completely ignored, except by 2 people, one person said they couldn't see how my interpretation was wrong, and the other person made one arguement agaisnt my interpretation before continuing to argue against the people saying that because it doesn't have a weapon profile it doesnt need to hit. Doesnt look like this thread wants to contiune =/, people wana derail it or argue amongst themselves in an endlessloop.
A few things, in attempt to re-rail(underail XD?) the thread: I can show RAW, focused witchfires make one roll to hit The Maleceptor's power makes 1 roll to hit The Psy power doesnt need a weapons profile to ressolve The Maleceptor's power, and most focused witchfires, are not reliant upon a successful to hit roll for their power to ressolve.
If anyone wants me to explain, provide rules, quotes from the rule book I will, in the meantime, I have Lictors, Mawlocs, Genestealers and a big ol box of termes to put together =D LONG LIVE THE HIVE!
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Post by andy089 on Dec 1, 2014 20:05:45 GMT
Yea, a couple pages back I made an argument in a manner no one else did, and It was completely ignored, except by 2 people, one person said they couldn't see how my interpretation was wrong, and the other person made one arguement agaisnt my interpretation before continuing to argue against the people saying that because it doesn't have a weapon profile it doesnt need to hit. Doesnt look like this thread wants to contiune =/, people wana derail it or argue amongst themselves in an endlessloop. A few things, in attempt to re-rail(underail XD?) the thread: I can show RAW, focused witchfires make one roll to hit The Maleceptor's power makes 1 roll to hit The Psy power doesnt need a weapons profile to ressolve The Maleceptor's power, and most focused witchfires, are not reliant upon a successful to hit roll for their power to ressolve. If anyone wants me to explain, provide rules, quotes from the rule book I will, in the meantime, I have Lictors, Mawlocs, Genestealers and a big ol box of termes to put together =D LONG LIVE THE HIVE! Well we've been through this - thing is, you roll to hit but the outcome of that hit has no relevance on what happens next, you resolve the power either way. It's not that it doesn't have a weapon profile. There are lots of things without weapon profiles that still are shooting attacks. The thing is that in every case where there is no weapon profile, it is outlined in detail that you have to hit successfully, but this isn't the case with psychic shriek or psychic overload, while there ARE other witchfire powers which DO outline that the successful hit is necessary, like Jaws of the world wolf. So for me this is a matter of comparing all of these things and drawing my conclusion from them - which is that they in fact do not roll to hit. But really, we are just starting the exact same argument over for the 10th or so time. To be honest, while I don't want to see this thread die, I am afraid, unless there is an FAQ on either witchfire powers or psychic overload/psychic shriek, there won't be much new stuff added to this thread.
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Post by sajeel on Dec 1, 2014 20:40:00 GMT
Send em an email if you want to end the debate for good
Gamefaqs@gwplc.com
Do Psychic Witchfires that resolve against the Target, Like Pavane of Slaneesh, Psychic Overload, Psychic Shriek, Executioner and Haemorrhage, require a successful to hit roll to be resolved.
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Post by gigasnail on Dec 1, 2014 22:30:54 GMT
Lol, you sweet summer child you.
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Post by javaman21011 on Dec 1, 2014 22:38:09 GMT
Or we buy 1 stock for one of Hive members that live in the UK and make them go to the stockholders meeting! I'm sure the new CEO might be willing to hear out our complaints I think the only way to resolve this without waiting is to somehow make friends with someone in the rules department of GW and just go off of that.
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Post by sajeel on Dec 2, 2014 2:41:04 GMT
Lol, you sweet summer child you. *pats dead horse* old Nutmegs gonna make it isnt she?... grampy gigasnail?
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Post by gigasnail on Dec 2, 2014 3:06:15 GMT
Lol, you sweet summer child you. *pats dead horse* old Nutmegs gonna make it isnt she?... grampy gigasnail? just because i'm a contrary (please do not swear), i did actually just email them and ask wtf they meant for this steaming pile to do. in a much more diplomatic way.
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Post by daboarder on Dec 2, 2014 3:29:48 GMT
Eh, I actually emailed it to them almost exactly as you put it, with math
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