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Post by Yautja on Nov 27, 2014 22:51:02 GMT
Right. If it does need to roll to hit, it's just a self-defeating WTF? unit. If it doesn't, then it's a durable Synapse guy that gives us more psychic shenanigans on a MC body (and thus can fight a little) out of the Elites slot. The latter can be made to work. As we've seen with recent tournament results, Tyranids - when built around a strategy - can make even mediocre units incredibly useful. why do I have to read your posts in the morning? seriously its just not fair.... again no, you want psychic MC shenanigans, take a bloody tyrant or tervigon, they both generate either more or the same number of powers princess I think a lot of people would consider the creature at least "OK" if there was no hit requirement. I'd certainly be content to pay 200p for it if that was the case, with it not needing 'focus' witchfire against vehicles or MCs.
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Post by daboarder on Nov 27, 2014 23:16:38 GMT
why do I have to read your posts in the morning? seriously its just not fair.... again no, you want psychic MC shenanigans, take a bloody tyrant or tervigon, they both generate either more or the same number of powers princess I think a lot of people would consider the creature at least "OK" if there was no hit requirement. I'd certainly be content to pay 200p for it if that was the case, with it not needing 'focus' witchfire against vehicles or MCs. Aye, but thats different to claiming it would be an "awesome tough psychic beast" I mean it would be at least able to do damage to a unit/strip specials/hurt MCs at range. But it wouldnt be any tougher because its a walking eggshell And it wouldn't be a psychic powerhouse (because its ML2 and already has a power) Thats like claiming a MC that moves 12 would be broken, its not just stupid, its provably wrong with both the riptide and wraithknight
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Post by brassangel on Nov 28, 2014 13:05:10 GMT
I think a lot of people would consider the creature at least "OK" if there was no hit requirement. I'd certainly be content to pay 200p for it if that was the case, with it not needing 'focus' witchfire against vehicles or MCs. Aye, but thats different to claiming it would be an "awesome tough psychic beast" I mean it would be at least able to do damage to a unit/strip specials/hurt MCs at range. But it wouldnt be any tougher because its a walking eggshell And it wouldn't be a psychic powerhouse (because its ML2 and already has a power) Thats like claiming a MC that moves 12 would be broken, its not just stupid, its provably wrong with both the riptide and wraithknight No one said, "awesome tough psychic beast." I said, "durable Synapse monster in the Elites slot," that "can be useful..." Learn to read and try to post intelligently. Typing with a crayon and fat fingers is probably hard, I know. We can play Tyrants and Tervigons... AND this guy because he doesn't eat up one of their already thirsty FO slots. Crazy concept, right? He's also hardly an eggshell having a true invulnerable save, and a player is incredibly stupid if they don't give him a cover save and/or fnp via Catalyst. Again, he would only become "can be useful" if his ability didn't have so many conditional requirements. To your comment about Wraithknights and Riptides: different roles than a Tyranids monster. They hop around and shoot stuff. If a Dimachaeron, for example, moved 12" and did what he did for 200 points, he would be broken. That isn't an opinion, that's fact. Top tier players are already using him in competitive lists as-is, and non Tyranids players hate going against it (thus focusing tons of firepower on him from the word "go"). Heck, in just two recent Apocalypse games I've used him, he was the first thing targeted by Reaver Titans, despite my teammate having Titans of their own. Reason? The first game he got into combat and basically owned a quarter of the table. As an aside, it's debatable that Riptides aren't already broken. On top of being stupid hard to catch, they have a 2+/3+/FNP at times. All for pretty cheap. Wraithknights at least don't have the same damage output, and cost close to 300 points if kitted out. Doubling a cc-killy monsters' movement during the most important phase of the game is worth at least 60 points. It's too much board control too quickly, and can completely wipe out a section of play from turn 2 on. Now we have Tyrannocytes, Sporocysts, and our already amazing Flyrants to do that so our 6" guys CAN get what/where they want. Back on topic... Grumble grumble Maleceptor.
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Post by Yautja on Nov 28, 2014 13:21:34 GMT
Cmon chaps, no personal insults please.
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Post by N.I.B. on Nov 28, 2014 14:15:36 GMT
If a Dimachaeron, for example, moved 12" and did what he did for 200 points, he would be broken. That isn't an opinion, that's fact. Top tier players are already using him in competitive lists as-is, and non Tyranids players hate going against it (thus focusing tons of firepower on him from the word "go"). Since it's your opinion, it's an opinion. It would for sure be powerful, but broken? Mindshackle Surflords, Nightscythes, Abarges, Riptides, Batman + suits, Centurion deathstars, Wraithknights, Wave Serpents, Imperial Knights - there are a lot of really powerful stuff out there that other armies can field, and Tyranids cannot. Broken is subjective. 'Top tier players' I guess you're thinking of InControl. He used (past tense) the Dima as a backline bodyguard for the Barbed Hierodule in a Trapdoor Spider build. The Dima wouldn't necessary get much better in that role with a 12" move (but it wouldn't hurt). But he's currently swapped out the Dima for the Swarmlord.
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Post by Nightmare20 on Nov 28, 2014 18:46:48 GMT
If a Dimachaeron, for example, moved 12" and did what he did for 200 points, he would be broken. That isn't an opinion, that's fact. Top tier players are already using him in competitive lists as-is, and non Tyranids players hate going against it (thus focusing tons of firepower on him from the word "go"). Since it's your opinion, it's an opinion. It would for sure be powerful, but broken? Mindshackle Surflords, Nightscythes, Abarges, Riptides, Batman + suits, Centurion deathstars, Wraithknights, Wave Serpents, Imperial Knights - there are a lot of really powerful stuff out there that other armies can field, and Tyranids cannot. Broken is subjective. 'Top tier players' I guess you're thinking of InControl. He used (past tense) the Dima as a backline bodyguard for the Barbed Hierodule in a Trapdoor Spider build. The Dima wouldn't necessary get much better in that role with a 12" move (but it wouldn't hurt). But he's currently swapped out the Dima for the Swarmlord. Makes sense. Swarmlord offers similiar killyness and a lot more support, so sticking him in the back makes sense. Poor swarmy always was a tad slow. I miss him with Gate. Also, no...the Dimachaeron wouldn't be broken with 12 inch jump but he would be an autotake...not that GW gives two fat dumps about balance.
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Post by javaman21011 on Nov 29, 2014 2:39:03 GMT
Having read all of these posts, I can't help but ponder that in 6, 12 or 18 months... if we get a new codex all of our Toxicrene models will become nerfed and the Maleceptor boosts thus forcing us to buy more models to fill the need, assuming we haven't magnetized them.
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Post by yoritomo on Nov 29, 2014 7:08:36 GMT
While I enjoyed the crayon and fat finger comment, I must say from personal experience that you turn your target audience off when you make those kind of comments. It's probably best if you don't insult of antagonize the other side. I would hate to have to lock this thread because people start becoming belligerent to each other.
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Post by neomangas on Nov 29, 2014 7:57:12 GMT
Having read all of these posts, I can't help but ponder that in 6, 12 or 18 months... if we get a new codex all of our Toxicrene models will become nerfed and the Maleceptor boosts thus forcing us to buy more models to fill the need, assuming we haven't magnetized them. I doubt the Tox will get nerfed... he is a well balanced model, no where near OP, he is just right and there is not much need to change much with him... sometimes GW are no where near logical... like when they released the new cool box for Hive guards and yet rule wise made them completely poop! I was gonna buy that box, was looking forward to it too, but at least I got to save some moneys. the GW guys are pretty unpredictable... but the Maleceptor will definitely get better next codex! T-Fex style... but for now... I wish they kicked him out of the Neural Node formation... that formation would be AMAZING if it was just 3 Zoanthrope Broods
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Post by brassangel on Nov 30, 2014 22:01:16 GMT
Well, the gun rules got strictly better for Hive Guard: flat ignore cover rule instead of conditional. Also got a Haywire gun added that didn't exist before.
His BS just went down 1, and not for any reason other than Tyrant Guard and Hive Guard are supposed to have the same profile (from GW game's designers' mouth, anyway).
The kit is also pretty darn cool, making any and all options for either unit.
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Post by slithernaut on Dec 1, 2014 0:54:56 GMT
a 3+ save on my hive guard would be nice... not exactly the same as Tyrant Guard.
Impaler cannon should be AP3...
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Post by dc0315 on Dec 1, 2014 8:23:14 GMT
Well I dno abt u guys but I tested a list out with 3 units of 3 hive guard in a pod each vs 4 wave serpants and popped 3 in a turn when i put them on his rear while the other went down via dakka from 2 flyrants in turn 2...the eldar player was shell shocked granted the list wasnt balanced enough as once I go against swarms or large units I lack forepower, but as a dedicated skimmer killer theyre very solid. Now I have 1 unit in a pod every game and theyre pretty sweet! BS4 woukdve been gold but theyre still pretty good with bs3..also gd against shrouded DPs hitting on 6s u get 1 or 2 hits wound on 2s and remove his 2+jink making him use his invuk is pretty sweet too.
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Post by Yautja on Dec 1, 2014 8:57:40 GMT
9 HG? Blimey
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Post by liberame on Dec 1, 2014 10:09:49 GMT
I use to run 9 back in 5th edition, dunno if i would in 7th though
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Post by hiveminded on Dec 1, 2014 11:45:33 GMT
Well I dno abt u guys but I tested a list out with 3 units of 3 hive guard in a pod each vs 4 wave serpants and popped 3 in a turn when i put them on his rear while the other went down via dakka from 2 flyrants in turn 2...the eldar player was shell shocked granted the list wasnt balanced enough as once I go against swarms or large units I lack forepower, but as a dedicated skimmer killer theyre very solid. Now I have 1 unit in a pod every game and theyre pretty sweet! BS4 woukdve been gold but theyre still pretty good with bs3..also gd against shrouded DPs hitting on 6s u get 1 or 2 hits wound on 2s and remove his 2+jink making him use his invuk is pretty sweet too. Am surprised they left their rear arc open. Facing a pod list (SM or nid), players I've faced will typically keep their back arc against the table edge or a piece of blocking terrain. Not to mention, the rear arc on a wave serpent is only about 1.5 inches wide....man I hate wave serpents.
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