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Post by gauntinator on Jul 11, 2011 15:19:30 GMT
I've been on here for a little while and have perused a good amount of the forum. And peppered through the whole thing I find references to Matt Ward. Most if not all of them are not so positive. I haven't ever had the "supposed displeasure" of reading one of his dexes. So my question is: why do you guys hate him so much?
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Post by Dro on Jul 11, 2011 15:24:43 GMT
Not this again....
I guess you'll see soon.
But more importantly, my opinion.
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Post by Geneva on Jul 11, 2011 15:31:12 GMT
Oh, dear. The floodgates are about to open again...
Go to 1d4chan.org. Look up Matthew Ward. I'd give you a direct link to the page but the opinions expressed within are quite... vocal with their disdain for the man.
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Post by vk on Jul 11, 2011 15:54:52 GMT
From what I can get.....
He's a Space Marine fan boy who got into GW and ruined everyone else's Dexes while pumping his favorites with Roids....
That and he made Blood Angels and Necrons home bois.
He also apparently hates Sisters of Battle ((please do not swear), HOW CAN YOU HATE THEM?!?!?!?), and thinks Necrons should have their own Empire where the C'tans are their slaves......weird.....
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Post by N.I.B. on Jul 11, 2011 16:16:44 GMT
You must be new to the internet.
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Post by vk on Jul 11, 2011 17:05:21 GMT
Also,
Warhammer Fantasy Battle Demon Codex.
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Post by wisdomseyes1 on Jul 11, 2011 17:33:12 GMT
in general, the fluff is what make people scream Also, Warhammer Fantasy Battle Demon Codex. daemon* the words are spelled differently for a reason. Daemon has a definition beyond demon even though demon is one of the definitions of daemon. Fluffwise, the are daemons, but look and act like demons. |
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Post by Psychichobo on Jul 11, 2011 17:44:39 GMT
Ok, basically...
He's not good at writing balanced army books.
He started with Orcs and Goblins (the previous one) for fantasy, which was considered a bit naff. Then he made the Daemon book for Fantasy, and it was so overbearingly powerful it completely blew the power balance of the game out of the water. 8th ed was partially designed to counter the absolute catastrophe created by Matt Ward and Gav Thorpe (who made the also overpowered Vampire Counts and Dark Elf books).
His 40k legacy, however, is of a different yet equally enraging kind.
He began with the basic Space Marine dex, which, whilst being reasonably well balanced and providing a much needed buff for the marines (they sucked a bit before then), had some TERRIBLE fluff. It made Ultramarines out to be heroic to a ludicrous degree, and went to great pains to emphasise how they were better than all the other marine chapters out there.
He then moved on to the Blood Angel book, where the 40k hate really began to pour in. The fluff was identically silly to the Space Marine codex, with their heroes being perfect and amazing in every way (Dante killed Skarbrand in one hit, ya know), and invented some fluff that was just plain silly - the infamous Blood Angel/Necron truce was one that made little sense for both parties involved.
The rules also were an absolute glut of pumped-up madness. Land Raiders inadvertantly had Deepstrike, and for a few more points many of the vehicles had the Fast rule. Widespread Feel No Pain was available via Sanguinary Priests, which could be taken in threes, independently, per Elite slot. A valkyrie style ship was also provided, for little to no logical reason. And then there's Mephiston, the most ruthlessly overpowered independent character ever to walk the earth. There's no other independent character who can even touch him, as far as I'm aware.
Many rules and abilities also seemed familiar - Inferno Pistols, previously the trademark of Dante and witch hunters, became widespread. They gained an Angel character, the Sanguinor, effectively a complete ripoff of The Living Saint. Dreadnoughts could buy a rule that previously existed on the fantasy Bone Giant.
Around this time the Ward hate really became widespread, and people were at a complete loss to understand how such an outrageously silly army book was allowed, and how the author was allowed to continue writing. When people found he was writing the next Grey Knight dex, it was hoped he'd learnt his lesson from the sheer netrage.
Nope. The Grey Knight dex literally expanded on what the Blood Angel dex did - fluff with heroes strolling around the warp carving their names into Primarch hearts, psychic powers that basically prevented deepstriking at all, wargear that almost completely shut down the Tau for some reason, and fluff bent and twisted outright to allow for strange and bizarre units such as Jokaero and the Dreadknight.
Ward is hated because... well, he just writes codexes that disappoint in almost every single way. Even people who play the army hate it, because some things are bizarrely overpowered and the fluff is like being forced to watch Eastenders marathons.
TL; DR: He writes bad fluff and overpowered rules and everything in his books is downright silly.
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Post by seahawk on Jul 11, 2011 18:03:42 GMT
It's like watching a non-Wunderkind child rewrite the works of the masters and bring them crashing together into piles of nonsense. For funsies. And it keeps happening, much to the chagrin of every player in the game.
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Post by druthu on Jul 11, 2011 18:04:18 GMT
Psychichobo LOL at you. Because he created the most balanced codex of 5th ed in 40k thats why he is hated ? sorry but I will say it only once SM book is great same as blood angels these books are very good but still are lacking compared to books like SW and IG. The only thing why Matt Ward should be hated is fluff reason thats it. If you are saying that hes books are grossly overpowered you have to take chill pill. PS. Ohh let me think who have most problems with Lord Mephiston  IG- No , SW- No , Tau- No, Tyranids ohh yes poor nids they have no answer to Mephiston.... but also Nids doesnt have answer for Jaws or long fangs or Mech IG. Just because Nids codex sucks and its the worst codex right after necrons that doesn mean that you should hate author that ACTUALLY MADE ONE OF FEW TRULLY BALANCED CODEXES. Ps2. If you think that BA dex or SM are not balanced just check how many tournaments these dexes won and how many other dexes won like IG or SW. Ps3. There is a reason why everyone turns from Nid dex even Auxilion...... Think about it for a moment then comment. |
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Post by halos on Jul 11, 2011 18:17:28 GMT
The vanilla marine dex is actually fairly underpowered now but, and here's the rub, when it was released it was not, it was excellent. Codex: SM was really the book which started the whole 5th ed. metagame, all the books since then are simply building on that theme.
Sure the vehicle rules facilitate mech spam, but without cheap vehicles pointswise it'd still be impossible to run etc, etc.
Anyway the reason I personally am not a fan of Mr. Ward is his fluff, the man frankly cannot write. 40K fiction has never exactly been high-brow but Mr. Ward has a tending towards ludicrous characters and unwieldy scenarios which i simply cannot stand.
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Post by vk on Jul 11, 2011 18:20:07 GMT
Even my friends think the Codex is ridiculois.
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Post by aramil on Jul 11, 2011 18:28:34 GMT
Matt Ward's Space Marine fluff is the reason I now take all codex fluff with a grain of salt. I assume most of them are written from the point of view of the race they are made for, and thus there is propoganda/exageration/outright lying in them.
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Post by orkblasta on Jul 11, 2011 18:45:32 GMT
I have to agree with druthu on all but one point. THE BLOOD ANGELS.
I believe they are overpowered for the main reason that they're characters have ridiculous stats. The basic space marine stat is WS, BS, S, T, and I all being 4, but when the special characters go and have double those I get upset. It doesn't make sense for a space marine to have mephistons stats, seriously S and T 6 in what universe does a space marine have those stats. Sure he's a special character but still know special character should be that far above his army.
Matt has also bugged me in how he stole things from other army books Psychichobo nailed it on that one.
After that I agree with everyone that his fluff is terrible it just doesn't make sense it's like he writes it in the back room with the lights off then sends it to production without even seeing what the other guys and GW think of his version.
The grey knight dex I really like, I find it quite balanced. Again the fluff sucks but the game play of the army is very fun yet can be quite competitive.
cheers.
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Post by Psychichobo on Jul 11, 2011 19:21:38 GMT
Psychichobo LOL at you. Because he created the most balanced codex of 5th ed in 40k thats why he is hated ? No, he's hated for the terrible fluff and strange rules which I go on to comment on. Try reading through my entire post before commenting on the first half of a point. The only thing why Matt Ward should be hated is fluff reason thats it. If you are saying that hes books are grossly overpowered you have to take chill pill. If I'm saying his books are grossly overpowered? Good thing I'm not saying that then. The point I'm making is that unlike IG, Dark Eldar or even Space Wolves, GK and BA dexes have the problem that they have an innate advantage simply by being on the table. Sure, Wolves, Guard, DE and Nids can beat them happily, but those guys have to start to tighten their lists and get things focused. Casually, Ward's dexes are an absolute pain. THAT'S what I meant by them being overly pumped - there's no subtlety, Ward just throws tonnes of silly rules at his armies. You have to up your game, even if just a little, to deal with an army that just comes with advantages off the bat. PS. Ohh let me think who have most problems with Lord Mephiston IG- No , SW- No , Tau- No, Tyranids ohh yes poor nids they have no answer to Mephiston.... but also Nids doesnt have answer for Jaws or long fangs or Mech IG. Just because Nids codex sucks and its the worst codex right after necrons that doesn mean that you should hate author that ACTUALLY MADE ONE OF FEW TRULLY BALANCED CODEXES. Well, you obviously suck with Nids then. Mephiston's easily dealt with by Nids - a few lash whips and the guy's begging for mercy. As for Jaws? It's called KILLING THE PRIEST. Mephy might be easy to deal with if you're using a mech spam list (though Tau? How? Do you even know what Mephiston actually is?) but if you're not packed up tight behind AV values then Mephy causes you a whole world of problems. He's a small based single model that doesn't care about krak missiles and is unbelievably easy to get a cover save for, or even hide outright. Anyone with a brain can fly him up to valuable or sensitive targets and obliterate them, before moving on. I've seen him rip up Guard, Wolves and other BA when he was used properly. And god forbid you see him in a casual game. Mephiston is an example of Matt Ward trying to be clever and making a supah-hero, and creating some irritating game-bender instead (and for the record, I know he existed pre-Ward, I'm talking about the way Ward changed him). Ps2. If you think that BA dex or SM are not balanced just check how many tournaments these dexes won and how many other dexes won like IG or SW. Ps3. There is a reason why everyone turns from Nid dex even Auxilion...... Think about it for a moment then comment. That's funny, you laughed at me for saying Ward created a balanced dex, SM, then told me I don't think they're balanced. The word you're looking for is consistency. I'm talking about balance in a regular, casual game. When it comes to competitiveness, it's all down to which dex has the most room for exploitation. Nidzilla was a tournament nightmare back in the days of 4th, but it wasn't uber-unbalanced. It was just exploitable. Ward's dexes power creep along the basics of the dex. It's not a case of 'these units in this section are cheaper than they should be'. It's a case of 'Why are these basic units better than the previous basic units he made?' BA marines are better than vanilla marines as they can get furious charge. GK are the same cost as vanilla marines and get better guns, CC weapons, and psychic powers to boot, for the same cost. As for everyone turning from the Nid dex? Well, I didn't. Many players here didn't. Just because AuxEllion did doesn't mean everyone else should too. I thought about it, and commented. Satisfied? |
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IG- No , SW- No , Tau- No, Tyranids ohh yes poor nids they have no answer to Mephiston.... but also Nids doesnt have answer for Jaws or long fangs or Mech IG.
