2000 Jormungandr/Natural Camouflage - Nephilim updated

[trashcan01]

Hive Tendril Jormungandr 2000 pts
Adaptive: Dynamic Camouflage 

Starting CP: 1 (-2 relics; -3 warlord traits)

HQ:

• Hive Tyrant: Shardgullet and Lashwhip, Adaptive Biology (FNP 5+++) warlord trait; Onslaught, Catalyst, Smite - 195 pts
• Tervigon : Maw Claws of Thyrax, Catalyst, Onslaught; 215 pts
• Neurothrope: Resonance Barb and 2x Synaptic Tendrils warlord trait; Neuroparasite, Catalyst, Smite 100 pts
• Warrior Prime No-Force-Org: Venom Cannon and Direct Guidance, Adrenal Glands -  90 pts

TROOPS:

• Warriors x9 (9x Dual Bswords, 3x Venom cannons, 6x Deathspitters, Adrenal Glands) - 300 pts
• Termagants x 30 210pts
• Termagants x 10 70pts

ELITES:

• Zoanthropes x3 150 pts
• Tyrant Guard x3 120 pts

FAST ATTACK:

• Raveners x3 (Deathspitters*, RavenerClaws, STalons) 140 pts

HEAVY SUPPORT:

• Carnifex (HVcannon, 2x Carnifex Scything Talons, ESenses, SCysts) 150 pts
• Carnifex (HVcannon, 2x Carnifex Scything Talons, ESenses, SCysts) 150 pts
• Carnifex (HVcannon, 2x Carnifex Scything Talons, ESenses, SCysts) 150 pts

* - thanks No One

Introduction:
The list does okay with long range anti tank shooting having Shardgullet, 3x Heavy Venom Cannons and 3x Venom Cannons.
Warrior unit is the anchor of the list, and is usually layered with multiple offensive and defensive buffs: Catalyst, Onslaught, Direct Guidance, reroll 1 on hit and wound.
The rest of the list is pretty standard - Gants are chaff and do actions, Elites provide support.
The original list and the short discussion can be seen by following the link.


Point changes, Secondaries and Nephilim:
Before the Tyranid balanace changes, the list had an extra Ravener, a Lictor and a squad of Ripper Swarm. Truth be told, the lack of bodies on the table is felt a bit, and I play even more reserved and careful than before.
The secondaries changed and they do not reward my reactonary and defensive playstyle. Basically - no faction specific objectives for me. This leaves me with:

• Warp Ritual - I'm usually maxing this one
• Engage on all Fronts - 10+ VP
• Raise the Banners high - ~10 VP

Depending on the mission and the opponent list, I would replace the Banners or Engage with kill specific objecive.


Battlescars - what I've learned in my 8 games
Unless my opponent gives me an opnening, for the first two turns my efforts are focused on staying alive, grinding down the opposing forces and setting up the table for the rest of the game.
This puts me behind in Primaries early, but I am usually able to win on Primaries on turns 3 - 5. I always deploy for going second, and I'll be more than happy to allow my opponent to go first, unless he is able to bring down 2 Carnifexes Turn 1.
Establishing a dominant flank with Warriors Turn 1-2 and pivoting to contest middle of the board Turn 3 is the name of the game.


List changes and updates - Sept 6th 2022.

• Wargear changes:
  
  • 4x Carnifexes - removed all Devourers with Brainleech Worms
  • Warrior unit - removed 3x Barbed Stranglers

• Unit changes:
  
  • Venomthropes - removed
  • Tyrant Guard - added
  • Raveners - added 1 more to the squad, now running 4 of them

[trashcan01]

vs Necrons - Custom Dynasty - armywide OBSEC + buff on short range Rapid fire

• HQ: Skorpehk lord, Plasmamancer, Necron Lord
• Troops: 2x10 Necron Warriors, 2x5 Immortals
• Doomstalker, Deathmarks, Wraiths, Ghost Ark, Scarab Swarms, 2x Skorpekh Destroyers, Tomb Blades and few others

Mission 21: Abandoned Sanctuaries

TURN 1:
Opponent went first and moved on the middle of the board. He killed one Zoanthrope and a Ravener, 3x Horms, 3x Termagants and dropped my Fex to 2 wounds. 
I moved my Neuro to start the Psy.Ritual, megabuffed my Warriors and advanced them on the flank. I manged to kill the Ghost Ark, Tomb Blades some Scarabs, Wraiths and some Warriors.
The rest of the army pivoted to contest middle next turn, except for the Raveners who rushed to slow the opponents advance on my weaker flank.

TURN 2:
The opponent continued to move up, securing middle and closing in on my weaker flank. After Shooting my Neurothrope got exposed for a charge from Skopehk Destroyers. He charged my Tyranid Warriors with Skopehk Lord, Skopehk Destroyers and a unit of Necron Warriors. My opponent made a bad call and got his fight sequence wrong. After he failed to kill my Neuro, I burned 2CP to interrupt with the Warriors, killing his Destroyers, Lord and 7 of his Warriors. Turn 2 my casualties were a Warrior, 7 Gants and 5 Horms.
At the end of my Turn 2 shooting, the opponent condeded. I would have tabled him Turn 3 (or 4).

Conclusion: Megabuffed Tyranid Warriors are awesome. The opponent disrespected various threat ranges and exposed multiple juicy units, didn't screen well enough. A big learning experience for him.

[N.I.B.]

Good stuff. What about the issue with Jormungandr and Naturalised Camoflauge, was it FAQd that you count as being in terrain so you get both bonuses?

Jormungandr
if the attacker is more than X" away, then the target is treated as having the benefits of Dense Cover against that attack (see the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book).

Naturalised Camouflage
Each time a ranged attack is allocated to a model with this Adaptation while it is receiving the benefits of cover from a terrain feature, add an additional 1 to any armour saving throw made against that attack.

And don't you miss Tyrant Guards? Looks like that Walkrant is forced to play peekaboo in your backlines.

[dkng]

Jorm NatCamo TGs are so hard to shift if you park them in cover - they are -1 to hit and have 0+ save if in light cover. A Tyrant behind them can shoot at stuff all day long with impunity.
I'd go with Deathspitters on Fexes - half the shots but ap-3 is what you want really. You're already good in antihorde departament but lack armor punching.
I like Venomthropes. You like Venomthropes. Everybody like them. But Jorm is the tendril that needs them the least. What I'd suggest is to swap them for another unit of Zoans.
Here's my suggestion - cut out Venoms, one Fex and one BS from Warriors - 270 pts. Add 3 Zoans for 150 and TGs for 120. Oh and consider taking 3 Fexes as one unit so you can deepstrike them all for 1 CP to have a good angle on something big you want dead asap.

[piersonsmuppet]

I don’t really see what the 2x Devs are doing on the Fexen. 18” guns don’t particularly play well in a defensive style, and there are not many targets they are good into; most T3 have 5+ Svs. 2xCST would not only save you points (to add another unit), but give you more ability to pressure on the non-Warrior flank once you’ve decided to come out.

I agree that Venomthropes aren’t quite worth their pts in Jorm; can’t stack the -1 to-hit and can’t assassinate for Cranial like in Kraken. I think replacing Devs & Venomthropes with Zoans would be a good call. Alternatively, Ravs for the thropes and GS for the Devs; this will help with scoring Engage since it’s one of your preferred secondaries. I find it a little risky taking Engage even on table quarter deployments with the Nephilim change, so some extra units that can position far enough will help.

[countkrojaer]

For what it's worth I just played 500pts twice in a crusade, against custodes. There was a lot of terrain and I chose natural camouflage. It really helped. I tabled custodes both times.

[N.I.B.]

What about the issue with Jormungandr and Naturalised Camoflauge, was it FAQd that you count as being in terrain so you get both bonuses? See my post above.

[piersonsmuppet]

Aug 15, 2022 11:19:17 GMT N.I.B. said:

What about the issue with Jormungandr and Naturalised Camoflauge, was it FAQd that you count as being in terrain so you get both bonuses? See my post above.

No FAQ yet for it to work. If you follow the link to the leak-era list, the OP talks about how they play Nat Camo as only triggering from terrain (ie keeping 2-3 of 9 Warriors in ruins).

[Master Chief]

I can't even imagine a Jormungandr list without the 3 screamer killers in deep strike.

Would be like a Leviathan list without Warriors or a Kraken list without Raveners!

[dkng]

Aug 21, 2022 11:40:08 GMT Master Chief said:

I can't even imagine a Jormungandr list without the 3 screamer killers in deep strike.

Would be like a Leviathan list without Warriors or a Kraken list without Raveners!

Close second is an Acidfex to deepstrike on an Objective

[trashcan01]

Big thanks to all of you who took the time to go through my list and offer improvements. I've updated my list in the top post.

• Wargear changes:
  
  • 4x Carnifexes - removed all Devourers with Brainleech Worms
  • Warrior unit - removed 3x Barbed Stranglers

• Unit changes:
  
  • Venomthropes - removed
  • Tyrant Guard - added
  • Raveners - added 1 more to the squad, now running 4 of them

Not fielding Venomthropes was especially hard, because they were my latest painting project and I invested a lot of effort into them. The suggestions were on the spot and tempting, but I own only 4 Zoanthropes + a Neuro, and I try to field as WYSIWYG as much as possible. On that note, I've decided to keep all 4 of Fexes.

I've also gone through all of the Nephilim mission deployment and strategies, and I must say, the list looks much nastier and proactive as Carnifexes and the Tyrant will see more action in melee. I am looking forward to my next games and I will keep you informed of the results.

[trashcan01]

....aaand I can't stop tweaking the list.

4x HVC/ScyTalons Carnifexes + Shardgullet seem a little of an overkill in terms of anti-tank, especially now that I can almost guarantee that the Tyrant won't go down turn 1-2 due to Tyrant Guard.
Here's what I was thinking:

REMOVED:

• 1 Carnifex 150 pts (I still have 3 left)
• 1 Ravener 35 pts (down to a unit of 3 models)
• 20 Hormagaunts 160 pts (removed from the list)
• Flesh hooks from the Warrior Squad 5pts
• Adrenal Glands from Tyranid Prime 5 pts
• Resonance Barb from the Neurothrope

ADDED:

• Tervigon 215 with Maw-claws 
• +20 Termagants 140 (now running 1x30 and 1x10; +10 spawned Termagants)

I think that this change brings more to the table, in terms that the opponent has harder time dealing with respawning Termagants. Hormagants are so hard to keep alive and they were very quickly and effecively prioritized by weaker firepower once out of cover. What do you think? Should I stick to Carnifex + Horms or diversify into Tervigon?

[piersonsmuppet]

Tervigon and brick it real good, especially with the -1 to-hit from jorm. I like what you’ve done with the lastest changes. However with TG in now, I’d suggest Swapping adaptive biology on the tyrant for heightened senses on the tervigon.

[No One]

trashcan01 said:

ADDED:

Tervigon 215 with Maw-claws
+20 Termagants 140 (now running 1x30 and 1x10; +10 spawned Termagants)

While I think consolidating your terms with a terv works fine for the list (not running territorial, so gives you some strong obsec), I don't think a single 10 man is worth bothering with. Not sure what else you could take instead though, looks a bit tight to upgrade to horms for more mobility. Add back in some ravs? Would suggest bios, but I don't think a bio single cuts it. Only other option that springs to mind is a lictor, but that doesn't seem super helpful for your list.

FAST ATTACK:

Raveners x4 (Devourers, RavenerClaws, STalons) 140 pts

Deathspitter>devourers. I think rending claws>scy tals as well, though with Jorm power for extra AP they maybe eak out. Maybe.

[piersonsmuppet]

Lictors are always useful, and I’d say they work better than 10 Terms for holding the home objective and banners. A lictor would also help you deploy the Tyrant more aggressively as it can be an untargetable unit that is closer for the Tyrant to be untargetable from Look Out Sir.

I took two to a recent RTT, and they do great work for 70pts.

However, I think the OP needs a third troop for the battalion.