2K Levi & GT Results

[piersonsmuppet]

I took the following list to a 28 person GT this weekend and finished 4-1 (4th). This was only my second Tournament (first with the new codex), and first time playing any Nephilim games:

Neuro w/ Synaptic Tendrils (Onslaught, Paroxysm) [-1CP]
Flying Tyrant w/ WL, VC, Shardgullet, Perfectly Adapted (Catalyst, Horror) [-2CP]
5x Warrior w/ AG, 5x DBS, 4x DS, 1xVC
3x Zoanthropes
5x Genestealers
Exocrine w/ Voracious Ammunition
Harpy w/ 2x STC, Dermic Symbiosis

Flying Tyrant w/ BS, LW, Reaper of Obliterax (Catalyst, Horror) [-1CP]
5x Warrior w/ AG, 5x DBS, 4x DS, 1xVC
3x Zoanthropes
3x Tyrant Guard w/ 2xST, 2xRC, AG
Harpy w/ 2x STC, Synapse



**Note: My army isn't battle-ready, so I can only score 90 VP max

Game 1 vs Imperial Knights - Mission 11 - 32/100 Loss

List had the Castellan with the Auto 6 dice, Rex, and 6 Armigers. I knew this would be my weakest matchup, so was a bit of a bummer going into it first game. The table I was at had the smallest ruins of any of the 14 tables, there was no hiding if I stepped out of my two ruins in my deployment zone (one in each corner). I lost the roll-off and lost both Harpies and my Tyrant Guard (died on the last failed save of the shooting phase), and the game went downhill from there. I was actually playing LoS incorrectly and could have prevented the TG from dying, but it would've likely just been closer loss losing both Harpies. Knight player finished 3rd with 100 VP every game except against the 5-0 list, so the loss doesn't feel as bad in hindsight. I think I could only make a game vs this list if I won the roll-off to go first. Interrogation, Banners, and Bring it Down had no hope.


Game 2 vs Necrons: Mission 22 - 85/39 Win

List with a lot of Vehicles and no Silent King. I spent the first two turns shooting/smiting out his infantry and wraiths, and he couldn't really do too much after that. Assassinate, Warp Ritual, and Engage served me well. 


Game 3 vs Tau: Mission 33 - 86/40 Win

2x Railgun, lots of Pirahna's, and infantry. I lost the roll-off and had visions of the knight game repeating. I lost all but 1 Warrior but both Harpies survived, so I still had a chance. Harpies dealt 13 MW's to the pirahna's w/ spore bombs and killed a railgun w/ the Exo's help (1 Harpy was at 1W). The things got a little heated about the new 2" engage as my TG, 1 Zoan unit, and Exo tied up the rest of his army. My opponent thought the 2" only applied on the charge, so he had left his units grouped. He pretty much lost the will to play, so we mostly talked out the rest of the game. Bring it Down, Warp Ritual, and Engage helped see me to a fortunate day.


Game 4 vs Iron Hands: Mission 21 - 77/64 Win

This was a much tougher match than I expected; 2x Redemptor, 2x Invictor, 2x Eradicators, 2x LC VVs. I was a little lost on secondaries, so I took Cranial and Synaptic Insight on a whim. He only had 2 Characters and 7 Sgts, but I got 9 from the two characters and the CP gen. Synaptic Insight was... Great! easily scored 12, and in hindsight I should've been taking it every game. The game was very close with each of us holding a flank, but the stalemate broke in my favor when I hit his Invictor at 6 wounds holding an objective with 9 MWS from a Zoan unit. Synaptic Insight, Warp Ritual, and Cranial Feasting was just good enough.


Game 5 vs Necrons: Mission 31 - 75/69 Win

Silent King with Objsec/pre-game move w/ scrabs, wraths, 2x Ctan, and a big block of lynchguard. I won the roll-off and Harpies went to work, the STC were picks for dealing with Necrons. My Synapse Harpy maxed Synaptic Insights kill tally in the first volley against one 5-man scarab (killed 4). I let him come to me since I put the Treasures objs on the two closest to me and the third was his side's obj furthest form the center. After he whiffed an 8" charge w/ rr into one of my Warrior units, I cleared out all of his scarabs and wraiths and he just didn't have enough to keep up with me on primary. Synaptic Insight, Interrogation, and Banners carried me through to the end.



Unit Analysis:

Neuro - Never leave home without it, 2x 3d6 psychic tests is probably the strongest thing in the codex.

Shardgullet Flyrant - Love the relic and the mobility. A Walkrant would've done much worse as the +7" Mv mattered often for Interrogation, Warp Ritual, Shooting, and maintaining links. I doubled up on Horror Catalyst for both Tyrants and hit them with Warp Siphon 95% of the time. Horror got me 2 CP for Interrogate that would have not happened w/o it. Very big piece in scoring Synaptic Insight.

Reaper Flyrant - Honestly one of the less impactful units in the list in most games, but maybe because I played too safe with it. Was great vs the Ctan though and helped with synaptic Insight.

Warriors - 2x5 felt good, they gave me Objsec when I needed it. I would have liked a 3rd, but I'm not sure what I would cut (I also only own 12 Warriors).

Zoans - The stars of my list. I've always played an aggressive Levi based list even with the 8E dex prior to the Levi supplement (very similar to Stormcoil), and they worked well here. I would send them up to take Objs and force a response so that my Warriors would be the second wave. I think I only lost more than one in a single phase once vs Iron warriors; 2 died to 2x Redemptors and 2x3 Eradicators w/ rr1's to hit and wound. I'd have a third unit, but I only own 6.

GS - they forward deployed for Mission 11 and otherwise sat on my home objective. They were actually a decent deterrent as people were afraid to go near them, which was the biggest surprise of the weekend for me.

Harpies - STC's are fantastic, probably putting out the most damage over all my games. The Synapse Harpy got most of my Synaptic Insight tallies as well, both are great (except when knights annihilate them T1).

TG - they did what they were made to do; give LoS to Tyrants and tie up shooting. No complaints here, I would never run them w/o AG as the Movement is too important imo.

Exo - Oh Exocrine, how I want you to work so bad. I'm not sure what it is, but I can't even get this thing to shoot well. I also forgot to roll for Voracious Ammo in all 5 games, but it didn't really make much of a difference with my horrendous to-wound rolls (2 successful wounds was my max). I think I'd like this to be a Tfex to help with the Knight matchup, but mine is mid conversion and may not be finished for a while.



Secondaries:

Synaptic Insight: with how heavy my list is on Synapse Creatures and 3 Phases I can score VP, this was an easy 12 in the games I took it and would have been an easy 12 in the games I didn't. I would only not take this vs a light infantry spam list.

Cranial: No options with Feeder Tendrils outside GS, so I realistically can't score the 3VP for the WL kill. I got lucky in the game I took it and I do not like it for my list at all. I would probably never take it again as Assassinate lets me score in 3 phases.

Banners: A decent fallback in some missions, hard for me to max.

Interrogation: Great!

Warp Ritual: Also Great!

Engage: Much harder to score in Nephilim with needing to be 6" away from other table quarters, lucky advance/charge rolls were the difference between scoring 2VP or not. Okay on the quarter deployments but can backfire. I'd rather take Synaptic Insight as it suits my playstyle better.




Potential Changes:

Exo -> Tfex: d6+4D is very tempting. The Exo's cover ignore really helped a lot as each table had 2 dense terrain pieces mid-board on the flanks, so I'm not 100% on if it is better.

Reaper -> Swarm Lord: Objsec Zoans and TG would've been very good for denying my opponent primary. Reaper didn't kill anything SL couldn't except for the 2 Ctan in game 5. Still, there were 4 lists with Ghaz, 1 Abbaddon, and another 2x Ctan necron so the change isn't clear cut.


Any thoughts on what could improve my game vs Knights while still keeping the Necron/Sister game strong?

[zimko]

How did starting with 0 CP feel? I think you're going to want to keep the Reaper Flyrant, but he needs CP to work well.

I'm the same way about the Exocrine. Every time I've tried to use him he just sucks. But I recently tried the Rupturefex and it's doing well for me.

[dkng]

Congrats on the result man
How did the STCs fare against the Iron Hands? Were there moments you thought "I wish my Harpies had HVCs?"
And one quick "what if" question - what would you change in the list to accommodate a unit of Venomthropes?

[piersonsmuppet]

Aug 8, 2022 6:15:45 GMT zimko said:

How did starting with 0 CP feel? I think you're going to want to keep the Reaper Flyrant, but he needs CP to work well.

I'm the same way about the Exocrine. Every time I've tried to use him he just sucks. But I recently tried the Rupturefex and it's doing well for me.

0 CP felt rough at times. I often like to encircle Zoans when there are no targets, esp T1. However I had to save the CP for more important things, so my Zoans were more passive than usual. The only way to make up CP would be to drop Perfectly Adapted, but I think the rr was worth more than 1 CP so the struggle will probably continue.

Yea, I realize Reaper is the right call to keep in as an Ace in the hole. At least it is better at positioning than SL for warp craft secondaries, so it has some other benefits.

Aug 8, 2022 6:17:09 GMT dkng said:

Congrats on the result man
How did the STCs fare against the Iron Hands? Were there moments you thought "I wish my Harpies had HVCs?"
And one quick "what if" question - what would you change in the list to accommodate a unit of Venomthropes?

STCs were great, they killed off most of his infantry by T2. My opponent couldn’t do Oaths, RND, or Engage well after that (had to score Oaths with his characters giving me Cranial VP). In that game, I didn’t miss HVC’s at all, nor in any other game. They were shooting into 2W models or things with ++, so I only thought “glad I don’t have HVC’s, they might’ve bounced there”. Shardgullet, Exo, and Zoans were on heavy duty and did enough for me. More importantly though, HVCs would mean my 2nd Zoan unit couldn’t fit in the list, I’d have missed that much more.

To fit Venomthropes, the only way would be to drop a Harpy or Zoan unit. I don’t think -1 to hit is worth it since I don’t have 9-man Warrior blobs. With all the rr hits I faced, the Harpy pressure did more to keep my units alive than Venomthropes could have. Zoans are all stars, I’d potentially replace a Harpy with a 3rd unit if I had the models.

[dkng]

So the volume of shots from STCs overcomes AoC in your experience. That's good news tbh. That's why I was asking about it - ap-2 is nothing special into AoC. I more and more like the idea of double Zoans. Good to know it's working.

[piersonsmuppet]

Yea, just the number of shots meant that there were at least 2-3 fails every volley. Definitely don’t shoot into AoC in light cover though. I did that and wasted a round of shooting from a Harpy, always aim to have the target save on 4+ or worse and the volume of shots works well.

Honestly they also were good at forcing CP to be spent, eating transhuman or 4++ strats that otherwise might have been used vs my bigger guns, or my Warriors when they did hit a charge. Harpies clearing scoring and Tyrants clearing threats made opponent’s choices difficult I think. My old crusher list was pretty similar except the roles were reversed.

Zoans are so tough, I love it. d3+3D guns hate going into them from lack of volume, and most armies are rocking 3D weapons for all the 3W elites. Low AP 2D are best against them, but AoC and -1D rules are keeping those mostly out of my meta.

[piersonsmuppet]

I’m also tempted to split my 2x5 Warriors to 3x3. I get one more VC and a little better Obj play, but lose some staying power. I’m not sure if it matters though because I usually lost only 1 or all 5 (only once I lost 4 while leaving one on an Obj and I held 4 that turn so it didn’t matter). Offensively the 5-mans usually overkilled by a lot, so I think running as 3 won’t take too much away from their ability to take objectives.

A big consideration for this though is to drop Perfectly Adapted so that I can Strategic Reserve 2 units of Warriors. I think popping from a board edge would give me some more forward disruption using shard lure and the 2” engage in ruins. It also opens up the potential to try out Spore Nodes, I’d be very happy taking Synaptic Insight/Warp Ritual/Spore Nodes and just getting an easy 12 on all. I think I play a denial game well enough that other lists (ex Necrons/Sisters) might struggle to beat me on secondaries. Any thoughts?

[zimko]

I think that could work for this list. It also makes Banners more viable for the missions where Banners is easy to score (like Recover the Relics).

If you're thinking about dropping Perfectly Adapted and turning those Warriors into 3 units, have you considered turning this into a Battalion and taking another Neurothrope with Resonance Barb to do psychic secondaries instead of the Shardgullet Flyrant? You'd have to play cagey with the Reaper to make sure you get 2 turns of Synaptic Imperatives but you're already doing that. And this would allow you to start with 2 CP.

Alternatively you could take a Broodlord to do the same job as the second Neuro, but also remove the Genestealers since you won't need 2 forward deploys. That would save you enough points to add another large threat to replace the Shardgullet such as a Rupturefex.

[piersonsmuppet]

Dropping the Shardgullet is a pretty big limitation imo. I actually want to play more aggressive with the Reaper, I just need more games to get the confidence I think. The Shardgullet Tyrant was the second best unit for Synaptic Insight, being able to pick up tough vehicles at range was very good. If I dropped it for a Tfex, I’d want to it have Synapse to be able to grab some tallies easy, but then I lose it on the Harpy who gets a lot more out of it.

I strongly considered running a BL, but I just don’t feel it can do as much for me with only D2. Every Behemoth list I make has one with MM for D3, and it was great in the one Nachmund game I ran as Behemoth.

I may still try the 2nd Neuro though. I had a lot of fun with a Levi Neuro that had Alien Cunning in one game. Drove my SW buddy mad because he couldn’t take it off between the 3++ and regenerating 3 wounds per psychic phase. I may have to drop to 1/1/1 of Harpy/Exo/Tfex though and figure how to maximize Dermic/Synapse/Voracious physiologies. Not sure how many or what I’d do with the leftover points, but it is worth exploring. Thanks!

[piersonsmuppet]

I think if I went with the suggestion by zimko, I’d run the following:

3x TG w/ AG, LW, BC
3x Zoans
Neuro w/ Synaptic Tendrils
Neuro
Flyrant w/ AG, TS, Reaper, WL
3x Warriors w/ AG, DBS, DS, 1x VC
3x Warriors w/ AG, DBS, DS, 1x VC
3x Warriors w/ AG, DBS, DS, 1x VC
5x GS
3x Zoans
PoM w/ G-Sac, Alien Cunning
Exo w/ Voracious
Tfex w/ Synapse
Harpy w/ 2x HVC, Dermic

2000 pts 2CP

I’m split on the Harpy’s weapons; on one end I do like the STC but I’m left with 30 pts. On the other, I get better guns into Knights.

I’m also 50/50 on whether or not I want the Reaper to have Adaptive Biology. I’d still have the CP in the bank to reserve the Warriors, but am back to starting with 0 if I do.

PoM is included to bring a Behind Enemy Lines game for when it’s good (Knights & Necrons imo) and to get really wonky with raising banners. Advance/Fallback & Action with 5-model Obj sec gives me some silly reach to sneak some on in the later turns.

Any thoughts?

[dkng]

Just some food for thought.
Exo with Voracious is 215 which is exactly the same as a Tyranid Prime with AG and VC and 4 Warriors with a VC. You get more ObSec, more Synapse, nice SI for a shooty turn (when shooting with your Harpies you will roll some 6's with 4d6+12 shots, won't you?). Unpopular choice I know but it should fit your list nicely. If not, there is always 5 Warriors with AG and VC plus a Biovore for you to gum up their works.
I'm beginning to see a trend on the lists where people tend to go either 2 or 3 Rupturefexes or no anti-tank at all. It seems going for a single Tfex or Exo is a trap. Sure you will be worse against Knights but should be better and more flexible against all the rest.
Edit - this was for your first list with twin stc Harpies. 215 is a PoM and 4 Warriors with points to spare.

[piersonsmuppet]

Good ideas, but I do not own enough Warriors to field 14. Nor do I own any Biovores at the moment. I found myself usually wishing for exploding 6’s in shooting with the STC Harpies, so I am keen to try out a Tyranid Prime. I think if I were to include a Prime, I would drop the one off Exo/Tfex as you say for the Prime and a second TG unit. I think giving me multiple safe points on the board to pressure with my only heavy weapons (Tyrants) would prove better than anything else I could field.

[No One]

piersonsmuppet said:

Synaptic Insight: with how heavy my list is on Synapse Creatures and 3 Phases I can score VP, this was an easy 12 in the games I took it and would have been an easy 12 in the games I didn't. I would only not take this vs a light infantry spam list.

Huh, I'm surprised by this, even with how Synapse-heavy your list is. Strikes me as way too awkward to warrant, especially with the 12 VP cap.

Definitely don’t shoot into AoC in light cover though.

AoC in light is the one to be concerned about: will of course depend on your terrain, but it'll definitely be possible to have light most of the time on a lot of maps. Of course, you do have exo. On the other, you're relying a lot on the shardgullet for T8 and -1 D, so...? Personally I'm still running HVC and...well, nids both are fine, knights HVC carried, IH neither would've done much 'cause died quickly, then HVC carries against DG. I could see it not being worth the 30 pts against match ups I just haven't been getting, but...HVC's a good gun.

Any thoughts?

I'd consider going SC harpy with Synapse instead of the exo.

I’m also 50/50 on whether or not I want the Reaper to have Adaptive Biology. I’d still have the CP in the bank to reserve the Warriors, but am back to starting with 0 if I do.

Don't think you ever want to start with 0.

Any thoughts on what could improve my game vs Knights while still keeping the Necron/Sister game strong?

Just go first, EZ. But yeah, not sure what you could do specifically: hide the t-guard is obvious (so important, especially with shardgullet). Exo->t-fex seems the better option to shore up that aspect without the HVC especially, and I think it's just better with more wounds and no blast. Also very terrain dependant, but could just run one harpy (contrary to my previous point XD ) depending on terrain, just to reduce vulnerability to heavy alpha. Not sure what you'd swap with: could just add a t-fex, but tbh I'm not a fan of the exo. I'd say biovores (wreck knights going 1st, still should be fairly solid 2nd as well), but you don't have.

[piersonsmuppet]

Aug 9, 2022 12:58:06 GMT No One said:

Huh, I'm surprised by this, even with how Synapse-heavy your list is. Strikes me as way too awkward to warrant, especially with the 12 VP cap.

Synaptic Insight was really easy to hit 12 every game, but I think that's only because I have 7 Synapse units and can kill well w/ Synapse in all 3 phases. Insight + Assasinate/Cranial is golden too (sort of like our own Assassinate + Abhor), the characters count for the kill tally as Insight has 0 restrictions. There wasn't a game where I couldn't max it, and an easy 12 VP is still good when playing a denial game. Psychic Ritual is still great even though it caps at 12. Yea I probably won't ever get first without some help, but I'm more about the W/L record vs placing. 

Insight is especially good vs armies that bring back tough models (Necrons). I used to agree with the Goonhammer assessment that it was trash, until I took it on a whim because I could only score 10+VP with a Warpcraft secondary due to the opposing army and the mission. My eyes were opened after that.

AoC in light is the one to be concerned about: will of course depend on your terrain, but it'll definitely be possible to have light most of the time on a lot of maps. Of course, you do have exo. Onhe other, you're relying a lot on the shardgullet for T8 and -1 D, so...? Personally I'm still running HVC and...well, nids both are fine, knights HVC carried, IH neither would've done much 'cause died quickly, then HVC carries against DG. I could see it not being worth the 30 pts against match ups I just haven't been getting, but...HVC's a good gun.

So AoC in Light Cover was really only an issue once, and I didn't need to shoot at those models really. What was nice, those Light Cover AoC models were entering terrain so that my Zoans could see them... I think you can guess what happened then. The Exo made my AoC opponent not want to step into cover as well, so most of his infantry was behind terrain hiding using Obscuring (prime targets for the Harpies). There really weren't any good places for his infantry to stand.

I actually just ignore most T8 and kill the scoring. I can win the knights matchup if I kill the armigers before taking too many losses (STC and HVC are roughly equal into T7 3+/5++), and I have enough mortals that the DG matchup isn't a concern to me (though I could be wrong!). I agree that the HVC is a good gun, but I have two problems with it: (1) it is more susceptible to whiffing when tabled and (2) it's 30 more pts per Harpy I lose when they get wrecked after my opponent goes first. While losing both Harpies in the Knight game was rough, it wasn't as mentally demoralizing as it could have been if they were HVC.

I will think more about running a HVC/STC split, at least I'll know where all the cannons are aimed T1 haha.

I'd consider going SC harpy with Synapse instead of the exo.

I really would like to, but I think the Tfex needs synapse to fill the Shardgullet gap for Synaptic Insight. I might just do a STC Harpy w/ Voracious instead of the Exo though, as most armies will shoot the HVC one first.

Don't think you ever want to start with 0.

0 CP wasn't great, but I also wasn't hurting for CP. I think it could be worth starting at 0 CP in Levi if a Reaper Tyrant is the WL since Hive Nexus can be ruled as going away with the WL. If the TO rules that I can keep using Hive Nexus, I'd probably drop Adaptive Biology.

Just go first, EZ. But yeah, not sure what you could do specifically: hide the t-guard is obvious (so important, especially with shardgullet). Exo->t-fex seems the better option to shore up that aspect without the HVC especially, and I think it's just better with more wounds and no blast. Also very terrain dependant, but could just run one harpy (contrary to my previous point XD ) depending on terrain, just to reduce vulnerability to heavy alpha. Not sure what you'd swap with: could just add a t-fex, but tbh I'm not a fan of the exo. I'd say biovores (wreck knights going 1st, still should be fairly solid 2nd as well), but you don't have.

The Exo does have some good points to it. The tables I play at usually have 2/4 pieces of Dense terrain, usually with 2 mid-board. Ignoring dense with the Exo was really helpful, though my wound rolls canceled that out haha. AoC armies paint a target on it, so I can drop it early to help force their deployment to one side of the board or the other. A Tfex is a greater threat in most instances, but I'm not sure if it brings the same mental game as the Exo (I usually highlight it has a strat for exploding 6's).

[piersonsmuppet]

I think I've come to a frontrunner for the next list I'm testing:

3x TG w/ AG, LW, BC
3x Zoan
BL
Neuro w/ Barb, Tendrils [-2CP]
Flyrant w/ AG, TS, WL, LW, BS, Reaper, Perfectly Adapted [-2CP]
5x Warrior w/ DBS, DS, 1xVC
3x Warrior w/ DBS, DS, 1xVC
3x Warrior w/ DBS, DS, 1xVC
3x Zoans
Carnifex w/ CST, HVC, ES
Tfex w/ RC, Dermic
Harpy w/ STC, Synapse
Harpy w/ STC, Voracious

I found that Dermic on 1x Harpy makes Warp Shielding awkward to use when the Harpies need it T1; either I don't use it and they focus the Synapse Harpy or I use it and they focus the Dermic Harpy. The thought is that I can maximize Warp Shielding T1 if the ++ is needed while saving a few pts and maximizing the aspects of Harpies that I use for scoring/disruption.

I've also got a few other that tool around with the Monsters (ie one has 1x Harpy/Exo/Tfex/Carnifex and another has 2x Harpy/3x Carnifex) and one that adds a BL to the Reaper/Shardgullet list. What I really kind of want to do is have a Carnifex with Synapse for scoring Synaptic Insight purposes (works great at 1000k pts), but 2x Harpies causes a conflict. With 1 Harpy I'll just run it with Dermic, but two worked so well I'm not keen to cut one.