|
Post by zimko on Mar 23, 2022 18:04:09 GMT
Unfortunately after reviewing Enraged Reserves, I do not believe it helps the Maleceptor's mortal wound chart. 'If this model’s characteristics can change as it suffers damage, it is considered to have double the number of wounds remaining for the purposes of determining what those characteristics are.' It specifically only applies to 'characteristics'. I thought the MWs dealt were part of the characteristics table similar to a LoC. Is the amount of MWs according to wounds just specified in the ability text? Edit: That just seems really weird to have the MWs use the damage table cutoffs, but not be part of the damage table. The issue is that the number of mortal wounds it deals isn't a 'characteristic'. I believe 'characteristics' as defined in the core rules are WS, BS, S etc. The number of mortals wounds it deals is written into the ability.
|
|
|
Post by piersonsmuppet on Mar 23, 2022 18:13:05 GMT
The number of mortals wounds it deals is written into the ability. Ah, that clarifies it then. I only had one look at the datasheets, and thought I remembered it as being in the Damage Table. Scratch that off the list then, though still wonky that they are using Damage Table effects without using the Damage Table for ease of use and consistency (never GW strong suit I guess).
|
|
|
Post by beetlejuice on Mar 23, 2022 21:38:55 GMT
25pts does make it harder to fit, but cost-wise it is well worth it. Maleceptor probably has the biggest hit to output with degrading, so call it 10 pts to count as double wounds to counter that is fairly costed. Then you are basically buying a CP for 15 pts (as long as the Malceptor survives to get w/in 12") since casting an extra power is rarely not useful on it, which is a bargain considering that it's the only place to pay pts for CP in the codex. I imagine Enraged is slightly better on a Kraken Malceptor since it can advance 12-16" and then fire off 3 powers. Enraged looks less good on non-character Horned Chitin models since they've got to make the charge before spending CP, so the 25pts there is a little more questionable. Unfortunately after reviewing Enraged Reserves, I do not believe it helps the Maleceptor's mortal wound chart. 'If this model’s characteristics can change as it suffers damage, it is considered to have double the number of wounds remaining for the purposes of determining what those characteristics are.' It specifically only applies to 'characteristics'. my initial thought too. However, W is a characteristic. Does W characteristic change as the maleceptor suffers damage? Yes. So, count it as double per enraged reserves rule. Proceed to check psychic overload table with the new value for W characteristic. Profit. And prepare to argue and make your case with TO/judge
|
|
|
Post by acehilator on Mar 24, 2022 1:15:46 GMT
Technically correct is the best kind of correct.
|
|
|
Post by piersonsmuppet on Mar 24, 2022 1:20:29 GMT
my initial thought too. However, W is a characteristic. Does W characteristic change as the maleceptor suffers damage? Yes. So, count it as double per enraged reserves rule. Proceed to check psychic overload table with the new value for W characteristic. Profit. And prepare to argue and make your case with TO/judge Damage doesn’t modify the characteristic though. “Wounds are lost” from damage, and for your interpretation to work damage would have to “modify the wounds characteristic”. The two statements are used for very different purposes rules-wise, so this is an instance where the wording, or lack of it, matters. I’ll still probably ask a TO about it for the first few, but it’s likely that they will shut it down.
|
|
|
Post by piersonsmuppet on Mar 25, 2022 13:32:11 GMT
After seeing that Malceptor does have Horned Chitin, I think I'm going to still try out Enraged Reserves as a buy 1CP for 25 pts option. I think it might still be worth it on that alone to get a free chance to cause 3+ MWs roughly 70-80% of the time from either Horned Chitin or Power of the Hive Mind. Honestly, it's a little silly how little the free epic deed strat part of the Physiology does. The only options for monsters are Trampling Charge or the two Psychic strats (since only characters can fight on death), so the AP feels really shoehorned onto specifically the Malceptor.
|
|
|
Post by N.I.B. on Mar 27, 2022 11:41:36 GMT
Updated list for my game tonight vs Harlequins. Leviathan BattalionDid you go with the Leviathan native adaptation?
|
|
|
Post by zimko on Mar 27, 2022 23:09:18 GMT
Updated list for my game tonight vs Harlequins. Leviathan BattalionDid you go with the Leviathan native adaptation? No, I took +1 to charge.
|
|
|
Post by N.I.B. on Mar 28, 2022 11:55:41 GMT
I shamelessly copied your vs Harlequins list for my first 9th ed match yesterday, against Space Wolves. He had a mostly infantry based list, a drop pod, Eradicators, Landspeeder transport, 2x5 Wulfen among other things. We rolled up the mission with the most bunched up objectives in the neutral zone, short edges. I took hold more objectives, Psychic Interrogation and the german name secondary. I kept the Leviathan adaptation, it felt really solid and gave me a lot of consistensy over time. I got the first turn, played defensively and tried to read up on the rules on my mobile. Popped Warp Shielding. Sent the Harpy forth and almost killed a biker character before I Encircled the Prey, Shardgullet could draw a bead and nuked the Landspeeder. Reaper Flyrant flew up and gobbled down some anti-deepstrike Intercessors to prevent them from scoring an objective and preventing my Mawloc, before I Overran back into bodgyguard safety. I had them all game behind a ruin wall out of LOS. Most of my psykers were out of range. Turn 1 SW he pushed into the center with podded Longfangs, and with a big combo charge on my right flank slaughtered 5 Warriors on the objective there. Longfang melta bounced off the Maleceptor and Zoanthropes.
Turn 2 Tyranids, I couldn't find the rules for the Maleceptor 4 cast combo, but I did the Neuro Psychic Augmentation and cleaned up my table half pretty good still. Neuro, Zoans, Maleceptor dished out the MW pain. Shardgullet Tyrant stayed with bodyguards, drew a LOS bead and killed 2 Eradicators. Reaper Flyrant mopped up a Bloodclaw unit and Overran home to the bodyguards. Warriors charged and popped the drop pod in the center. Other 5 Warriors charged the Space Wolf captain with his strike last armour, I popped the -1 dmg strat and he didn't kill a single model, after som sub par rolling. Warriors diced him. Mawloc entered on a forward objective, he was subsequently shot up and killed in cc in SW turn 2, but at least it kept my opponent from the objective and forced him to dedicate a lot of resources to kill it (Transnid and 5+++). I took in Deathleaper in my deployment zone, the 6" deploy from enemies was kind of nice (but they died in my psychic phase). In hindsight I should've waited until turn 3 with Deathleaper to exploit holes in his screening.
SW turn 2 he took in second Wulfen unit On The Hunt and managed a charge on my left Warriors plus Tyrant Guards. But he prioritized a combat in the center so my 5 Warriors intervened and killed all 5 Wulfen. They struck back in death and killed the Warriors. Center combat a unit of Bloodclaws couldn't quite kill 4 Warriors so I could hold the objective with ObSec.
At this point he only had 5 Wulfen, a unit of 3 sniper-esque models and assorted wounded infantry thinly spread out and it was getting late. He was looking to be tabled in my turn 3 or close to, so we talked it out and ended the game. Massive victory to nids. At last I found the rules for the Maleceptor combo (to do psychic action and still cast powers plus cast one extra spell, plus Warp Siphon), it wasn't going to be pretty.
Oh my lord those Warriors! My opponent was in disbelief; permanent transnid, 5++ or 5+++ the first turns, S8 and all that good jazz. Just awesome. I had great fun, finally we have some staying power. The psychic phase was awesome, Reaper Flyrant was awesome, Shardgullet delivered. Only thing I didn't get so much out of was Deathleaper and perhaps Mawloc, but my opponent screened well in the short table edge deployment. Bodyguard rules felt kind of dirty, but I loved it.
Thanks for the inspiration!
|
|
|
Post by zimko on Mar 28, 2022 13:18:25 GMT
Thanks for the quick batrep.
I am considering dropping 5 of the warriors in order to add a unit of 3 Venomthropes. They seem really solid synergy.
I'd have an extra 30 pts with that so I'm thinking about dropping the Mawloc for another Harpy. The offensive punch of the Harpy is just so strong. The Mawloc is a nice distraction but a Harpy can be both a distraction and deal good damage.
|
|
|
Post by piersonsmuppet on Mar 28, 2022 13:23:54 GMT
I'd agree with dropping the Mawloc for your list. I think the Mawloc needs a Lurk fleet to shine, and another 6 S9 shots is probably more beneficial in Levi.
|
|
|
Post by N.I.B. on Mar 28, 2022 20:21:54 GMT
I am considering dropping 5 of the warriors in order to add a unit of 3 Venomthropes. They seem really solid synergy. I'd have an extra 30 pts with that so I'm thinking about dropping the Mawloc for another Harpy. The offensive punch of the Harpy is just so strong. The Mawloc is a nice distraction but a Harpy can be both a distraction and deal good damage. I think you're dead on with those changes.
|
|
|
Post by zimko on Mar 29, 2022 2:06:35 GMT
Thanks. Here's the updated list.
Leviathan Battalion HQ Flyrant: Shardgullet, Warlord:Perfectly Adapted - 205 Powers: Psychic Scream, The Horror Neurothrope: (relic -1cp) Resonance Barb - 100 Powers: Paroxysm, Onslaught, Catalyst Troops 5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 4 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 4 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 5 Warriors: 5 Deathspitters, 4 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS, Adrenal Glands - 140 Elites Maleceptor - 170 Powers: Psychic Scream, Neuroparasite Deathleaper: (WLT -1cp) Alien Cunning - 95 3 Venomthropes - 105 Aircraft Harpy: 2 HVC - 170 Harpy: 2 HVC - 170 No Force Org 3 Zoanthropes - 150 Power: Neuroparasite 3 Tyrant Guard: Bonecleaver/whip, Adrenal Glands - 135
Leviathan Patrol (-2 cp) HQ Flyrant: (relic -1cp) Reaper of Obliterax, (WLT -1cp) Adaptive Biology, Adrenal Glands - 205 Powers: Psychic Scream, The Horror Troops 3 Warriors: 3 Deathspitters, 2 Duel-BS, 1 LW/BS - 75
2000 pts: 6 cp (-2 patrol, -2 relics, -2 wlt)
|
|
|
Post by N.I.B. on Mar 30, 2022 6:16:56 GMT
Why not Hive Nexus on the Neurothrope? Allows your Maleceptor to use his Psychic Oversight every turn on himself.
|
|
|
Post by piersonsmuppet on Mar 30, 2022 12:16:21 GMT
Why not Hive Nexus on the Neurothrope? Allows your Maleceptor to use his Psychic Oversight every turn on himself. All psykets know the hive fleet power.
|
|