Kaze's List Testing Station

[kazetanade]

So as the counterpart to my theorycraft thread, I'm gonna try to maintain a batreps page as well. First things I need to apologize for:

- I dont know how to make paint maps, cant rotate the shapes right like stormcoil. So I'm using pictures taken as reference - it's gonna look ugly until I learn to do it systematically, so I apologize. 
- It's not formatted as cleanly as stormcoil's. You'll have to use your imagination a bit on how movements happen. As of now, the pictures are haphazard as hell.
- You'll have to look at ugly ass models, as my Nids are horribly neglected; missing heads, proxies, unpainted or differing paint schemes, and other such blemishes. My GSC is slightly better, but Necrons is looking fiiiiine. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Battle Report: Defensive Leviathan Tyranids vs Dark Eldar

Tyranids:

Tyranid Battalion (Leviathan)

SPOILER: Click to show

HQ
- AC Flyrant: Bonesword, RLC - Synaptic Hive Blades, ADPT - Murderous Size
- Malanthrope: WLT - Swarm Leader, RLC - Adaptive Neural Lobe
- Neurothrope

Troops
- 1x3 Rippers
- 1x30 Devilgants
- 1x5 Warriors: S.Link - Bioweapon Bond, ScyTal, LWBS

Elites
- 1x Haruspex
- 1x 6 Hive Guard: Impalers
- 1x 4 Zoanthrope: S.link - Psychic Channeling
- 1x Maleceptor: S.Link - Focal Essence
- 2x Lictors

Heavy Support
- 1x Barbed Heirodule: ADPT - Dermic Symbiosis

Black Templars:

SPOILER: Click to show

++ Battalion Black Templars ++
+ Stratagems +

Revered Repositories [-1CP]

Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

+ HQ +

Chaplain Grimaldus [7 PL, 140pts]: 1. Litany of Divine Protection, 3. Plea of Deliverance, Epitome of Piety, Litany of Hate, Warlord

High Marshal Helbrecht [8 PL, 160pts]

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Iron Resolve, Litany of Hate, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Tannhauser's Bones

+ Troops +

Assault Intercessor Squad [6 PL, 110pts]: Holy Orb
. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Auto Bolt Rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Auto Bolt Rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword

+ Elites +

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [11 PL, -1CP, 190pts]: Icon of Heinmann
. 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted power sword, 4x Storm Shield
. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Champion of the Feast, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Sword of Judgement

Primaris Apothecary [5 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Crusader's Helm

Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Icarus Rocket Pod, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

Terminator Assault Squad [10 PL, 230pts]: The Crux Obsidian
. Assault Terminator Sergeant
. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Thunder hammer
. 4x Assault Terminator w/THSS: 4x Storm shield, 4x Thunder hammer

Vanguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 148pts]: Jump Pack
. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Relic blade, Storm shield

+ Fast Attack +

Attack Bike Squad [6 PL, 180pts]
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

Attack Bike Squad [2 PL, 60pts]
. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

+ Heavy Support +

Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: Plasma incinerator
. 4x Hellblaster: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

Map and Mission:

Mission: Scorched Earth; 6 Objectives, Hold 1, Hold 2, Hold More.
Map and rough deployment ideas are HERE
Secondaries:
Nids - Til The Last, Retrieve Octarius Data, Stranglehold
BT - Oath of Moment, No Prisoners, Bring It Down 

PREGAME ANALYSIS
So, first game with the new BT - had only a very vague brief idea on what their new book has. Immediately noticeable is a thick brick of Bladeguard; a thick brick of Terminators; a brick of Vanvets. None of these are very fast, so I figure I have 2 turns of guns firing in to whittle them down. However, going through the army with my opponent, I realize immediately that I cannot touch the bricks - Terminators are T4, 2+, Stormshield so +1, and -1D on a guy. It would take me a lot of effort with either HG or Barbed to break through it. Bladeguards are T4, 3+, Stormshields so +1, and ignore ap-1 and 2 on a guy. Our entire army shooting is ap-2, and hence takes too much effort to burn through. The Vanvets are at least normal. So initially, my thoughts was to chew through the edges and thin the army - however, my army is also slow moving, and I would have to sacrifice whichever flank the bricks are on, so it becomes a trading game. 

However, as we move through the rest of the list, it gets harder and harder - Grimaldus gives everyone a 3+d3" advance (and BT gets reroll advance/charge as their CT so...), which makes them as fast as Genestealers but x4 tankier; this means they take over NML immediately and will be in my face in 1 turn on such a short map. They have a 5+++ vs MW in built, and Grimaldus gives everyone a 6+++ (and there's an apothecary doing the same), and carried 2 Litanies; 1 gives a flat 5+++ on everything, the other makes them nullify psychic effects like a Culexus. He carried the vow that lets them not benefit from Cover, but gets a 5++ flat and also gets mini-transhuman (wounds of 1s/2s fail). All in all, he had 4 layers of damage reduction; wounds, saves, fnp, and apothecary to bring things back. He could shove a unit in my face and kill my psychic output altogether.

Likewise, anything that gets touched in combat is dead - the 2nd chaplain has reroll hits or reroll wounds. Helbretch gives them all a +1S; there's a lot of attacks involved as well, and I dont have anything that really rebuffs them or seriously threatens them back. The Haruspex' and AC Flyrant, although by right should be the right tool to use vs these thick invuls, wouldnt survive a swing back - the Terminators in particular are completely unaffected by the AC Flyrant, and the BGV rebuff it quite reasonably with a 5+++ still. Realistically I could go after the characters and make a big change - but I'd have to wait for them to get close otherwise I couldnt make it without SL. At this point, I was extremely sorely missing SL and Genestealers, which I could send into either bricks and get good results with the new maths. I'd have to bite down on the Vanvets, kill his guns, and eat his extremities and play from there, since he has barely any guns in hand. 


DEPLOYMENT
So, we deploy off against each other. There's two ruins in each deployment - the red ones are considered squares or triangles - a line is drawn from edge to edge, and everything inside is considered within terrain, and hence visible via True LOS. Which is a lot since there are windows in there. The big green ones have an area attached to the wall - everything behind it before touching the area are considered not in terrain, hence obscurred. On deployment I considered deploying my HG behind the green line, but two problems - the first is that it's past my deployment, so I dont get full coverage, and he can then swing around the sides with his melta bikes and get a clear shot on them, which would only benefit from Malanthrope (which would be 0 benefit since he would definitely CM reroll that unit). The second is that if I placed them middle, it would be middle vs middle clash - that would destroy my gameplan of chewing up the sides due to my lack of mobility. I decided to deploy the HG behind the South West Red Ruin, as tightly as I could to force extreme movements to swing around and see them (which I hoped he wouldnt get, if he tried to be safe).

My opponent thought for quite awhile before deciding to play risky and placed the Hellblasters and a single bike on that extreme flank instead of the 3 melta bikes - which I thought meant I was safe, until he reminded me they were assault hellblasters and could advance and shoot. Since he was going to have to shoot through dense anyway, he decided to go all in on it. We reasoned that if I went first, I would just destroy the unit outright and it was risky play - he countered that if he didnt do it, he'd lose anyway since nothing else could get to my HG in time. He probably thought that Transhuman would have stolen the kill from me as well, or wasted so much of my shooting that his other units can still get work done. The rest of the deployment was extremely standard - I played the Flyrant, Haruspex, Maleceptor and Malanthrope within that gap between the red and behind the green ruin, Zoeys stretched further to the east, and warriors right behind the tiny ruins in the east(or the end, in the picture) of the map. He played everything with damage behind the green ruin, then an intercessor in each extra ruin just to sit on or near objectives. 

Then the roll off - and he went first. 

BATTLE REPORT
Top T1 - BT (0-0)

BT gets the start, and I desperately wished I'd have the WLT for redeploy, because it would have been a game winning redeployment for me. But I didnt, so just accept it. CM gets thrown on the melta bikes instead of the hellblasters, because out of range. Terminators get given 5+++ flat and ignore magic. BT's melta bikes popped their head out on the east flank, VVs move up right behind the containers blocking mid LOS, the two thick bricks make a direct beeline down to my HG, the single bike moves way up, and the Assault Intercessors run 3+d3+6" up to get vision on the HG. Plasma-redemptor lumbers out behind the bikes, characters move up behind the VVs and next to bikes, next to bricks, and give almost army wide buffs in their army-sized deathball. 

No Psychic.

Shooting Phase, the Assault Hellblasters opened up into my HG - killing 2, and losing 3 themselves. Take note that this would be the most damage his army takes throughout the entire game. The single bike opens up with melta and kills 1 more. The CM melta bikes open up on my Barbed Heirodule qith 6 shots - I popped Encaphalic Diffusion at the start of phase, he gets all hits from CM rerolls, and an amazing all wounds naturally, much to my chagrin. I fail a few and take 15d after saves and fnp. Luckily, his dice swing back right after with Redemptor getting max shots, but no saves required. 

Nothing has advance and charge, so his turn ends. He's on 3 objectives, and has crippled most of my shooting. 

Bottom T1 - Nids (0-0)

Nids starts to move. Having lost half my HG squad, I know they wouldnt last another turn and are basically nearly deadweight - they wouldnt get the kill on the Hellblasters, the bike, or do any damage whatsoever to the thick bricks. However, I need to buy a turn for my devilgant drop squad to come down somewhere in their back corner and just steal objectives, somehow. Knowing I needed to steal objectives from him as I cant really interact with his brick properly, I planned for my Warrior squad in the east to double move up, take two objectives themselves, and to throw the Haruspex forward to absorb the charge and cross fingers hopefully survive the encounter somehow. The psykers were facing the stupid culexus brick, so I had to make huge movements on the Zoey (it's the green HG in the pictures, apologies I couldnt find my actual Zoey models...), Neuro (the blue lictor), and Maleceptor to swing around and target the VVs or the Bikes instead. He left a bit of a space between the bikes, VVs, and Helbretch; I thought it was an opportunity for my Flyrant, so I sent him up to try and get that charge. However, BT (Grimaldus) has 2 denies with a +1, and then a 4+ deny after DtW fails; I couldnt bet on Onslaught working, so I couldnt risk advancing the Flyrant. So with the general plan in mind, I placed +1 to hit on the Barbed, reroll damage on the HG, reroll hits on the HG, 3d6 cast on the Flyrant, and moved to plan. 

In Psychic phase, my inexperienced with MW generation armies showed - I popped 3d6 on the Flyrant to ensure Onslaught and big Smites, but then realized I needed to cast Paroxysm on the Plasma-redemp that was next to Helbretch and also didnt have enough cp in the plan to spend on cast extra spell. So I wasted a supersmite tool. Other than that the Psychic phase went neutral - Onslaught went off through the deny, and my Zoeys' smite went through with a deny and the 4+ roll. However, the damage was abysmal - I did around 6 MWs before fnp, after fnp I did 4, which killed 1 VV and left 1 bike on 2W. I failed a few smite tries, so that's expected when I waste my 3d6. 

In Shooting, I was faced with a predicament. I forgot that after double move, you cant charge, and charging the marines was part of the plan. That meant they couldnt steal the objective unless the unit died, or was brought down to 2 guys at least. That meant my shooting priority had to shift - instead of shooting out the Bike and the 2 Hellblasters, I had to shoot intercessors instead. So I fired 3 HG into the intercessors, getting a Transhuman out of it for my trouble. However, the shooting was abysmal - 6 shots, full rerolls 3+, gets 3 hits and 0 explodes after full reroll. Gets lucky with 3 wounds, 1 saves, 1 damage into 1 damage, so 2 faileds to kill 1 intercessor. Oh dear. I moved to my Barbed Heirodule who shoots into the exposed Melta Bikes - 12 shots, 2+ to hit, ends up dealing only; a 6+++ actually manage to throw off my maths and wasted one fail, which was enough to keep the unit alive. Oh dear me. The apothecary is sitting right there ready to turn 1 bike with 2W into 2 bikes with 4 each. But I also needed to kill the Intercessors for my Warriors to actually steal the objective from them and get my stranglehold. I decided to commit to the plan and double shot my HG into the Intercessors again. Exact same results. So 3cp and 3 buffs, 2 dead intercessors; fantastic value for money. I'm now contesting it instead of owning it. I'm in trouble, because none of the plan has worked. 

In Fight, there was only 1 specific fight we're looking at here - I needed to make it into Helbretch. I needed a 8" on the Flyrant with AG - decent odds. I rolled 3. Rerolled - into a 5. So now I had a Flyrant stranded in NML, with Catalyst, but facing Helbretch, VVs, Terminators, BGVs, and a soon to be 2 man bike unit. Oh dearie me. 


Top of T2 - BT (10-0)

So top of his turn - I've basically done nothing to him, and execution was swift. Everything moved down; the single melta bike lined up on the HG to charge, and the 2 melta bike lined up on the Barbed. Termis and VVs lined up on the Flyrant, Plasma-dread got anti magic to cleanse Paroxysm and lined up infront of Zoeys/Neuro/Maleceptor for charge and anti-magic. BGV lined up on the Haruspex. CM went on to the meltas, and combat chap went Hatred to give everyone reroll hits in combat. 

Shooting was extremely funny - the HG lost 2 more guys, but the last guy absorbed ever single shot thrown at it and either bounced off his armor, or bounced off the leviathan fnp. I meant every single bolter in the game, on its last wound, with no ER. It just saved everything, as if to make up for my somewhat lacklustre T1. Then the Barbed ate Meltas and just died.


Fight phase, Everything other than the plasma-dread made their charge targets - hard to fail with +2 to charge chaplain around. Termis swung first and did something like 20 saves to the Flyrant? He just died with Catalyst on. I spent cp to interrupt with the Haruspex and gave him what buffs I could afford with my cp, smacking with the big claws, and he killed 2 BGV through it. 4++ for the win. 

We called the game there because the only tool I had left was a devilgant unit coming in, and 3 psykers stuck infront of anti-magic man. Devilgants bounce off 2+ like water off a poncho, and would have required full buffs from warriors, WLT, and exploding hits to make a dent into that. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[hungryone]

Wow, that sucks man.

Everybody was so cheerful about Octarius supplement, but this just confirms that we're still in bottom tier: no defense for our bugs against most of the shooting armies, meele damage output is still ridicolous, Leviathan trait is terrible.

[vejby]

Nov 18, 2021 13:48:08 GMT hungryone said:

Wow, that sucks man.

Everybody was so cheerful about Octarius supplement, but this just confirms that we're still in bottom tier: no defense for our bugs against most of the shooting armies, meele damage output is still ridicolous, Leviathan trait is terrible.

I think it just goes to show that turn 1 wins games, when you can reach the enemy turn 1, one way or the other. Plus, the maleceptor is not worth it unless you go exclusively T8 and even then it is expensive in CP.

[zimko]

Nov 18, 2021 13:48:08 GMT hungryone said:

Wow, that sucks man.

Everybody was so cheerful about Octarius supplement, but this just confirms that we're still in bottom tier: no defense for our bugs against most of the shooting armies, meele damage output is still ridicolous, Leviathan trait is terrible.

I don't think this is a fair assessment of our overall standing. It was an experimental list using Zoanthropes and Monsters vs Meltas.

[hungryone]

Nov 18, 2021 14:48:10 GMT zimko said:

Nov 18, 2021 13:48:08 GMT hungryone said:

Wow, that sucks man.

Everybody was so cheerful about Octarius supplement, but this just confirms that we're still in bottom tier: no defense for our bugs against most of the shooting armies, meele damage output is still ridicolous, Leviathan trait is terrible.

I don't think this is a fair assessment of our overall standing. It was an experimental list using Zoanthropes and Monsters vs Meltas.

It's not fair that we didn't get any defensive buff, that our most tanky units (Zoanthropes) can be almost deleted with a turn of shooting or melee, that we have to spend ton of CP for give a reason to the Maleceptor, that HG excluded there are no serious damage threat ecc...

It's impossible to build a tanky or pure melee Tyranids list nowdays.

[No One]

kazetanade : is there supposed to be images? I don't see anything...

hungryone said:

It's not fair that we didn't get any defensive buff, that our most tanky units (Zoanthropes) can be almost deleted with a turn of shooting or melee, that we have to spend ton of CP for give a reason to the Maleceptor, that HG excluded there are no serious damage threat ecc...

It's impossible to build a tanky or pure melee Tyranids list nowdays.

We don't really have great defensive options. We don't need great defensive options: use terrain well, engage first and we've got some very good damage sources in devilgants/stealers/HG. We're at least mid tier. I'd maybe go as far as to say probably bottom of top tier.

Also, zoans aren't our most durable unit (at least per pt): they cost 50 pts for 3 T4 3++ wounds. You can (essentially) get 3 warriors for the same pts: zoans will always save 2/3 of incoming wounds (except they suck against MWs), so are 3x more durable than a warrior with no save. But there's 3 warriors, and you have a 4+ sv which will generally at least do something, and also -1 D strat. Also the zoans...didn't even die, they were ignored because their output's eh even outside of counter-psychic. Which...I think is pretty prevalent in the meta atm (GK possibly top dogs now, sisters, BT possibly best marines, TS as well aren't exactly great match ups, then Orks/AdMech are likely still fairly efficient into zoans in both directions...). TL;DR I don't think zoans are any good at the moment. So saying that we're bottom tier based on a single game, with a bad match up, with a meh unit experiment, going 2nd, is just wrong. We weren't even bottom tier before this and the FAQ.

Edit: Also as alluded to in kaz's post, we did get a very strong defensive tool in redeploy WLT: while not a 'traditionally' defensive tool, it's flexible in it's ability to 'bait' deployment, redeploy out of T1 angles etc. Which, well: not getting shot is the best defence.

kazetanade said:

I popped Encaphalic Diffusion at the start of phase

It's start of turn for...some reason.

Devilgants bounce off 2+ like water off a poncho, and would have required full buffs from warriors, WLT, and exploding hits to make a dent into that.

Hilariously while they don't like a 2+, they still put in work: tesla devilgants do about as much as warrior link buffed HG (more if the termis are e.g. stormshield). Still, even ~14 wounds (before fnp) with tesla/double tap would be nowhere near enough with that much left, then apoth just undoes part of it.

[stormcoil]

Nice to see a battle report. I have a few thoughts, take them for what it is worth.

First, minor point, your title says this is defensive Tyranids against Dark Eldar, and then you end up playing against Black Templars.

You don't go through why you built your list. I'll state the obvious on a few things. I don't think a Haruspex is good enough. If you need a big tanky monster in that role it is better to just find the points for a scythed 'dule. I'm also not convinced that a barbed heirodule is better than just a second unit of hive guard. Hive guard can shoot twice, and if you lose all or part of one unit, you can still get full output from the second. Also, hive guard ignore cover (won't matter against templars with their vow) and also get some ap 3 shots with the maleceptor, which will matter against the guy who ignores ap as once he takes one save he has to take all of them. I also feel like you needed a unit of Tyrant Guard (or genestealers). Hive Tyrant is only medium output, Haruspex and zoanthropes are both low output. You aren't taking anything with enough punch especially with so few hive guard.

I think with the small number of units you took the redeploy trait would have been worth the cp to add to the malanthrope. I have found it to be really powerful whether going first or second. Like everything the game is about matchups. You have the ability to do mortal wounds, so that is what you need to deal with the terminators. So it is tough to know without pictures, but it is about how you set the matchups in deployment, in redeployment, and then what you do with our massive speed to pick the matchups that are right for you. Also, if you are facing all 2+ saves and you don't think the gants can make back their points in shooting, leave them on the board for a screen. You don't want to use a unit the same way every game.

Good luck in your future games and I look forward to the next report.

[kazetanade]

stormcoil thanks for the words -

1. I didn't go through the philosophy or strategy of the list because I cover it extensively in my theorycrafting thread - but I can provide summaries for ease of reading on batreps.

2. The Haruspex gets 2 damage booster strategems and a fair number of attacks and damage - it spills mortal wounds as it dies - it can auto explode for 3MW flat. It also has d6d and I had a maleceptor that could help stabilise that damage roll. I chose it primarily for these reasons as an alternative test unit for countercharge. It actually doesn't do too poorly - its just an extremely niche use case. Would have done much more into non ignore ap-1/2.

3. I completely agree that I didn't have enough punch. In the list design, MW output over 3/4 turns and ObSec on demand was part of the calculated dmg output I needed to whittle close the game. Anti-magic was a hard counter I was not able to deal with in this game，especially since the Terminators were the one getting the anti-magic Litany. I literally could not touch them with my list.

4. I had 2 games within 24 hrs - one vs BT one vs DE. I meant to upload info on the DE, but uploaded BT instead and forgot to change the title. DE is going up next.

5. A 2nd unit of HG is good - you can easily exchange it for the Barbed. I just enjoy having some potential melee in the Barbed, and having an extra threat that doesn't demand hiding space, but is tanky enough to survive a turn or two. A Barbed has the same output as a 2nd unit of HG pretty much, and to me is completely interchangeable. But there will be a day when we see a table that doesn't support double HG, you see mass big guns, and you redeploy it back into reserves for free. XD.

6. I kept the devilgants in the sky because they're my hedged bet vs the unguarded backline. Dropping these guys in on the flank vs VVs, or vs Primaris, would have been golden. If they started on the ground, they would have been slaughtered aimlessly, I thought. Vision 20/20, I don't think it was the right choice to keep them on the ground either - getting charged wasn't where I failed or died.

No One the pictures are linked on IMGUR under Maps/Mission ; not very clearly. I'll reattach in the specific post, or make the image links more obvious.

[kazetanade]

Nov 18, 2021 13:48:08 GMT hungryone said:

Wow, that sucks man.

Everybody was so cheerful about Octarius supplement, but this just confirms that we're still in bottom tier: no defense for our bugs against most of the shooting armies, meele damage output is still ridicolous, Leviathan trait is terrible.

My next BatRep paints the opposite color - I go 1st vs a DE list, and despite poor dice outcomes, nearly force a concede on T1.

Octarius gives us a lot to work with, and we're safely in the upper mid, if not lower top, tiers.

The *real* key takeaways is that relying on psychic is bad, with more anti-magick being available on what will be a common SM army. More than 1/3 of my list damage was tied up in Mortals, which were countered by a 5+++ and anti-magic man in my face. And that while we can push defensive list concepts, we are better served pushing raw output and much like Orks, strong arm our opponents into submission. ESPECIALLY after the Flier and Buggy nerfs.

[purestrain]

Nov 18, 2021 17:51:17 GMT kazetanade said:

Nov 18, 2021 13:48:08 GMT hungryone said:

Wow, that sucks man.

Everybody was so cheerful about Octarius supplement, but this just confirms that we're still in bottom tier: no defense for our bugs against most of the shooting armies, meele damage output is still ridicolous, Leviathan trait is terrible.

My next BatRep paints the opposite color - I go 1st vs a DE list, and despite poor dice outcomes, nearly force a concede on T1.

Octarius gives us a lot to work with, and we're safely in the upper mid, if not lower top, tiers.

The *real* key takeaways is that relying on psychic is bad, with more anti-magick being available on what will be a common SM army. More than 1/3 of my list damage was tied up in Mortals, which were countered by a 5+++ and anti-magic man in my face. And that while we can push defensive list concepts, we are better served pushing raw output and much like Orks, strong arm our opponents into submission. ESPECIALLY after the Flier and Buggy nerfs.

Void Crown + zoanthrope +1cp know all spells from psychic units extremely hard to fail, especially if its on a neruo but I put mine of a Hive Tyrant.

[kukie]

I think the Leviathan Supplement is great personally. I've played 2 games with the new rules, beat Sisters of Battle pretty handily the first game and lost a close game to Necrons the 2nd game.

The Sisters of Battle list was pretty standard, Repentia, Bolter sisters (can't remember there exact name but they have a strat that does like 6 mortal wounds when they pop it), Morvan Val, Celistine, some melta, serephin squads, argo flags, troops and some immolators. I had genestealers (squads of 14, 14 and 12 Genestealers), Swarmlord, Malceptor, a patrol of GSC and 6 Hiveguard. I won the role off, got first turn, shot a squad of genestealers into the Sisters line and killed an Immolator with the Hive Guard, used the 2 CP strat to shoot twice and killed the melta sisters when they came out... and from there I just traded units and kept board control. The Sisters player has been playing Wh40k longer than me and is a better player than me (not downing myself, it's just a fact), but I still won. He was able to get to my hive guard with serephin deep strikers because I was sloppy with my screens and Sisters have miracle dice for 11 inch auto charge. That was the major mistake I made. My Malceptor was able to clean up after the Hive Guard killed a Sister or Two in melee. But I won that Game pretty solid, I took assassinate, engage on all fronts and retrive octarius data, SwarmLord killed Celestine, Genestealers killed some characters, GSC got me ROD and engage on 4 fronts most turns, we called it after turn 3, no way for him to come back even though I took the foot off the gas.
The next game against Necrons I switched up my list (just got 2 dimachareons and wanted to try them out), I ran a monster mash list, flying hive tyrant (with -1 to wound relic), swarmlord, malceptor, 2 dimas, and no GSC patrol. The Necron player brought the Silent King, destroyers, some flayed one, skorpek destroyers, the HQ barge and 3 units of warriors. The game was close but I lost about 64-72 or close to that. The problem was the dimachareons had no problem wiping out the skorpek destroyers but couldn't get through screens of Warriors (too many bodies and the reanimate just kept bringing them back). His Army was pretty well suited for the Nidzilla but I still could have one the game if I played it better. I made a couple mistakes on target selection, I was being too cagey with my monsters (I fed him one monster at a time for 2 turns when I should have just flooded him with threats and got a bunch of charges off the next turn). Plus I think Genestealers are the more efficent choice over Dimacharons now (for sure against Necrons but with the Tyranid Prime buff of auto wound on 6s they shred through chaff, elites and punish even heavy targets, in my 1st game when I took genestealers they shredded through units). The Hive Guard did work both games (obviously), and I brought a flying hive tyrant with -1 to wound relic and he tanked 1/2 of the necron army for the whole game. That Hive Tyrant really is the main reason it was a close game and not a blow out, he just couldn't kill it. And finally not taking GSC was a mistake, those 200 points of GSC for scoring points was so nice to have for ROD, engage and spreading out the board.

Nids are still pretty squishy for sure, but they are super killy. They are a hard Army to play I'd say but if you play them right they are probably the one of the best armies in the game right now. I'm gonna build my future lists around genestealers and hive guard which are the best units right now I'd say.

[kazetanade]

OK, 2nd BatRep coming up. Once again sorry for the poor pictures - I'm not getting a good hang of this taking pictures for batreps. The link here again, but it's below as well. 3rd picture is actually bottom of T2 midway movement phase, which is awkward and I'm not sure why I took the picture then. imgur.com/a/dnY56Fa

In the future(after the next few batreps - I'm currently 3 batreps behind) I will start using a battle app to record the games again and remind me on a turn by turn how the scoring goes. Snap a pic of that as well at the bottom of the page.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Battle Report: Defensive Leviathan Tyranids vs Dark Eldar

Tyranids:

Tyranid Battalion (Leviathan)

SPOILER: Click to show

HQ
- Malanthrope: WLT - Swarm Leader, RLC - Adaptive Neural Lobe
- Neurothrope
- Broodlord


Troops
- 1x3 Rippers
- 1x30 Devilgants
- 1x5 Warriors: S.Link - Bioweapon Bond, ScyTal, LWBS
- 1x20 Genestealers


Elites
- 1x 6 Hive Guard: Impalers
- 1x 5 Zoanthrope: S.link - Psychic Channeling
- 1x Maleceptor: S.Link - Focal Essence
- 2x Lictors


Heavy Support
- 1x Barbed Heirodule: ADPT - Dermic Symbiosis

Dark Eldar:

SPOILER: Click to show

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [12CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Obsession: Kabal of the Black Heart: Thirst for Power

+ HQ +

Archon : As Detachment (Kabal), Hatred Eternal, Huskblade, Overlord, Splinter Pistol, The Djin Blade, Warlord
. Splintered Genius (Black Heart): Splintered Genius

Drazhar 

+ Troops +

Kabalite Trueborn : As Detachment (Kabal)
. 6x Kabalite Trueborn: 6x Splinter Rifle
. Kabalite Trueborn w/ Heavy Weapon: Dark Lance
. Kabalite Trueborn w/ Special Weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Trueborn w/ Special Weapon: Blaster
. Trueborn Sybarite: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors: As Detachment (Kabal)
. 3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
. Kabalite Warrior w/ Special Weapon: Shredder
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors : As Detachment (Kabal)
. 3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
. Kabalite Warrior w/ Special Weapon: Shredder
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

+ Elites +

Incubi 
. 4x Incubi: 4x Klaive
. Klaivex: Demiklaives

Incubi 
. 4x Incubi: 4x Klaive
. Klaivex: Demiklaives

+ Fast Attack +

Scourges 
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Solarite: Shardcarbine

+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider : As Detachment, Dark Lance, Splinter racks

Raider : As Detachment, Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies

Raider : As Detachment, Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies

Raider : As Detachment, Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies

Raider : As Detachment, Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [-4CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost

Obsession: Cult of Strife: The Spectacle of Murder (Restricted)

Raiding Forces - CP Refund

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Prizes from the Dark City [-1CP]

Stratagem: Prizes from the Dark City [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Succubus [ -1CP]: 1 - Adrenalight (Combat Drug), As Detachment (Wych Cult), Competitive Edge, Stratagem: Tolerated Ambition, The Triptych Whip
. Agoniser & Archite Glaive
. Show Stealer (Strife): Show Stealer

Succubus [ -1CP]: 2 - Grave Lotus (Combat Drug), As Detachment (Wych Cult), Precision Blows, Razorflails, Stratagem: Tolerated Ambition

+ Troops +

Hekatrix Bloodbrides : 2 - Grave Lotus (Combat Drug), As Detachment (Wych Cult)
. Hekatrix: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Power sword, Splinter Pistol
. 6x Hekatrix Bloodbride: 6x Hekatarii Blade, 6x Plasma Grenades, 6x Splinter Pistol
. Hekatrix Bloodbride w/ Hydra Gauntlets: Hydra Gauntlets
. Hekatrix Bloodbride w/ Razorflails: Razorflails
. Hekatrix Bloodbride w/ Shardnet and Impaler: Shardnet and Impaler

Wyches : 2 - Grave Lotus (Combat Drug), As Detachment (Wych Cult)
. Hekatrix: Hekatarii Blade, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter Pistol
. 6x Wych: 6x Hekatarii Blade, 6x Plasma Grenades, 6x Splinter Pistol
. Wych w/ Hydra Gauntlets: Hydra Gauntlets
. Wych w/ Razorflails: Razorflails
. Wych w/ Shardnet and Impaler: Shardnet and Impaler

+ Elites +

Incubi 
. 9x Incubi: 9x Klaive
. Klaivex: Klaive

Mandrakes
. 4x Mandrake: 4x Baleblast, 4x Glimmersteel Blade
. Nightfiend

+ Fast Attack +

Reavers [3 PL, 75pts]: 4 - Painbringer (Combat Drug), As Detachment (Wych Cult), Grav-talon
. Arena Champion: Blaster
. 2x Reaver: 2x Bladevanes, 2x Splinter Pistol, 2x Splinter Rifle

Reavers [3 PL, 75pts]: 4 - Painbringer (Combat Drug), As Detachment (Wych Cult), Grav-talon
. Arena Champion: Blaster
. 2x Reaver: 2x Bladevanes, 2x Splinter Pistol, 2x Splinter Rifle

Map and Mission:



Mission: Scorched Earth; 6 Objectives, Hold 1, Hold 2, Hold More.

Map and rough deployment ideas: imgur.com/a/dnY56Fa

Secondaries:

Nids - Til The Last, Retrieve Octarius Data, Psychic Ritual

DE - No Prisoners, Herd The Prey, Retrieve Octarius Data



PREGAME ANALYSIS

I'm relatively familiar with Dark Eldar as a codex - I had spent a paltry 30 minutes or so browsing, but had kept up to date on what was being thrown around. I also have around around 4 games under my belt vs DE, which is currently sitting at 3-1 W-L ratio (after this game, 4-1). fighting the original Wyches/Hellion roadkill combos on release, the Dark Technomancer flamers prior to nerf, and some modfied wyches list with TTL baked into the game. I had 1 game at an event which I can barely remember., but more or less followed the same rules as the first game I had. Conversely, my opponent was very unfamiliar with Nids - I had played it with him once before when he was playing Necrons sometime mid 8th, but I had only done some of our bare minimum tricks and he was rather distracted by a 32" moving Termagant blob that kept him pinned in place for 3 turns. Luckily, our resident DE player was present and was actively coaching, correcting mistakes and suggesting more optimum plays, so the game was a lot more even than it could have been otherwise. 

I came into this game thinking of using the re-deploy WLT that I felt was lacking in my prev game vs BT; so my idea was to bait the position of my HG so that he places his army very far away out of my range, and I would swap them into range if I went first, or to swap them out of range of a charge in case he made a play for T1 and won the roll off. Likewise I kept my devilgant unit on the board in case I could leverage an early turn of damage. 

I also just had that conversation with zimko about getting charged - so I was very particular about Raider charge range. out of the raider, contents get 7+3+d6" movement before the charge (assuming the whole thing is in Realspace Raiders, and you have blackheart to give everyone +1 to pfp), so 14+8" average is about 22" threat range. The raiders on the flip side have 14" +8" flat, then 8" average; that's a threat range of 30" approx. On Dawn of War deployment, that gives you 4" of "safe" deployment right in the back of your deployment. So the only way you can deal with this properly is not to deploy out of range, but to absorb the charge on things that dont matter, and in doing so, convince them that an early charge is a bad idea in the first place. 

As long as I get 2 turns of HG shooting at boats, I should theoretically be at a strong advantage. And since I brought Genestealers this time, I had a threatening countercharge that needed to be regarded as well. 





DEPLOYMENT

So, we deploy off against each other.  There are 2 ruins and 1 Dense mechanicus terrain in each deployment zone - and 2 more in the middle to block line of sight from cross shooting. The farthest east (or the end of the table) are the smallest, and arent actually ruins although I call them that - they're just walls, and do not confer any cover for being in them. Bearing in mind my thoughts on getting charged and baiting positions, I start with my HG into the walls on the far east.

I think this is where my opponent's inexperience caught him. I tell him the statlines and range of the guns, and he decides to throw 2 boats within easy charge range, and the other 3 far away under Dense terrain (but only 1 fits in it properly). Knowing he doesnt have the right tech for redeploy, I can then safely setup my Maleceptor and Barbed Heirodule, to have access on T1 and T2 for damage, and for the devilgants to be braced for a counter-charge shootout if he decides to go in, or disembark to charge the frontlines. I also ready to shift my HG and other exposed elements away from the 2 boats if required. 

He basically deployed in a way to be as far away from my HG with the majority of his army, as possible, and I deployed the bulk of my whittle forces on that flank, with the Heirodule on further east but with LOS to the west to shoot them. The Genestealers sit in the central ruin in deployment zone just waiting for their opportunity to be used. 

The only other thing of note was him placing his mandrakes in the central white terrain inbetween our two armies. 


Then the roll off - and I went first.



BATTLE REPORT

Top T1 - Nids (0-0)

I get the start, and I immediately put my redeploy to work. Originally I had thought about moving my HG to a safe side, hide behind warriors, and send the devilgants into the sky - but measuring the distances again, I see that my devilgants can get within range of all 3 of his Dense boats, if I roll high on advance. If they reached, I could basically pop 2 boats in a sitting, and my HG then pops 2 by himself double shooting, and the Barbed Heirodule pops the last one. De-meching 5 boats at once would be game winning in of itself. The greed overtook me, and I used my redeploy to shift positions on my Warrior and Devilgant units, getting them up on the line to aggressively run out.

CM buff goes onto the Devilgants. +1 to hit goes on the Barbed. Reroll Damage/ap+1 goes to the HG. Neurothrope gets get 3d6 discard 1. I push up the entire flank as hard and as fast as I can. 

And of course, I roll not high enough on the advance to get them in range properly. I now have 2/3 of the unit in range of 2 boats, but less than 1/3 is blocked by the white ruins' LOS blocking effect. 

Psychic phase isnt particularly relevant - a big smite from the Neurothrope gets us enough juice to wipe the Mandrakes. Almsot all the other spells were out of range other than Zoey smite, so they smote, and I put buffs on the devilgants (onsalught, Catalyst). 

Shooting Phase, I get too greedy. I shoot first with the HG into the boat on his east objective, baiting Lightning Reflex, and natural saves/poor damage rerolled into poor damage; the boat survives with 3W left. The Barbed Heirodule now split fires into two boats infront of the Devilgants, hoping to total both - instead, the first boat is left on 1W, and the one second one is left with 4W. The Devilgants now have 1 full hp boat and 2 nearly dead ones. The devilgants try to fire with as many models as possible to what they can see and reach, but the distribution is poor -14 guys on the 1W, and 10 guys on the 4W. I shoot with CM and tesla - the 1W got overkilled by like 10 saves. Conversely, the 4W one didnt get a single wound. Now, he almost deployed the incubi spilling out of the transport within range of the devilgants, who were rearing for a 2nd shooting phase. Fortunately, coach stepped in and showed him the right way to disembark, making it impossible for me to shoot any of the models since they're all out of range. Due to a lack of choice and the risk of getting charged that I took, I had to double shoot the HG into the far east transport , and splitfired 2 guys into the severely injured one on the east objective. The far east objective boat goes down to 4W remaining, and the severely injured one goes down to 1W remaining.  


Nothing happens in the fight phase. 



Bottom T1 - DE (0-0)

My opponent takes awhile to think. Since the raiders are mostly all severely damaged and have no great charge targets, he's unsured what to do. Coach comes in and discusses his options for a good 15 minutes - eventually landing on the action plan to flood the board to overwhelm my threat priority. Reavers come up to tag my devilgants and try to keep my shooting under control. Incubi on board, and remaining in transport all disembark, and move up to hide from more shooting from the Barbed, waiting for T2. The remaining raider with full hp likewise came up to tag things and keep my psykers pinned in place. His Trueborn spill out in order to contest Devilgants on the objective. 

There was no Psychic phase.

In Shooting, it was eating random/stray poison/dark lances. I lost 2 warrior models and a small bunch of gaunts, essentially nothing of value happened here. 

In Fight, the tags talked about happened. I played around with the 6s cause mortal wounds strategem for gaunts, which as always does absolutely nothing of value. I really should stop using that for anything with less than 20 attacks. 



Top of T2 - Nids (15-0)

Top of my turn, I figured the game was in hand - other than incubi and wyches, his army cant contest mine. I underestimated the scourges coming in next turn, but I figured there was nothing he could do to me this and next turn to change the game outcome. Maleceptor moves up at first to case Psychic Ritual - but I figured I should better use my psychic to break the 1W raider instead of trying to shoot it with guns. I still had 3 turns anyway to get Ritual. Barbed Heirodule moves up to see about grabbing the objective once the units spilled out.  Genestealers move out behind the Devilgants to prepare for a countercharge on the Incubi incase they decide to charge and kill the devilgants, and likewise try to stay outside reasonable charge range with the pipe blocking movement from the incubi. Stuff out of reserves just ROD. Neurothrope swings around to get at the Reavers instead of eating smites into the Raider. Buffs go onto the same people.

Psychic phase was decent - the mortal wounds killed off all the reavers, and do extra damage to the raider. Catalyst goes down - nothing else of note. The broodlord is still sitting around twindling thumbs - I should have just used him for Ritual, but I didnt want to expose him to a charge unecessarily. The Maleceptor with his +1, failed smite. 

Shooting phase was decent again - Devilgants were fallen back and couldnt shoot, but the Barbed Heirodule could. I did not take +1D this time, but if I recall correct, the damage was sufficient to kill both boats on the east objective. The HG double shot into the wyches that spilled out, with exploding 6s tagged on - getting a grand total of 1 exploding hit over both activations. It wiped unit 1 down to 3 men, and unit 2 down to none. 

Fight phase, the Heirodule charged into the 3 men; I actually wanted the succubus, but I didnt get lucky with the wyches, so we take what we get. The rest was mostly disruptive tactics, and was not relevant. And of course, Heirodule with a 2+ rr1s and a 2+, wiffs 2 attacks, and the other 2 get saved on a 4++, with a 1 on morale so they stay in. Sometimes it happens. 


Bottom T2 - DE (15-10)



This time the opponent takes time to think yet again. However, the actions are pretty obvious - I failed to get into the two succubus and hence fight them/tie them down, so they get free reign of where to go, and one goes after the HG and the other goes after the Malanthrope. Drazhar and Incubi form up near the pipe, going to try attempting a long charge on the Genestealers. Scourges drop in on the west, in a corner behind the dense terrain, and aim to go after Genestealers or Devilgants. Everything else is kind of stuck in tango.



The game had to be suddenly called at this point as I suddenly received an urgent call away and had to go - but talking through the game with the coach later, it would have been a gradual pull away on points in my favour, as Zoanthropes tussle as Obsec with the Raiders, Trueborn, and last set of Incubi - warriors would just lock in with Scourges for a long time going nowhere, and if the Genestealers could kill Drazhar (it's luck dependant), then he couldnt recover. Assuming the Heirodule doesnt wiff like earlier, he kills the 3 wyches in combat, Maleceptor flips other way to get into the Succubus on the HG before they wipe, Dule into the Succubus on the Malanthrope, we tie forever on Primaries and I pull ahead on Secondaries due to TTL and ROD.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[brianb9999]

Nov 21, 2021 17:49:55 GMT kazetanade said:

Maleceptor moves up at first to case Psychic Ritual

Just a note, Maleceptor can't perform Ritual as he is not a character.

Randomly, I also discovered the other day that the Maleceptor also does not have the Death Throes rule.

[kazetanade]

OK, 3rd BatRep coming up. Just a heads up, skipping the 3 I was behind (the games werent very interesting in general and I've forgotten a lot of the details) and jumping straight into the new AoR stuff. Pics of map and results are here: link

Also, yes, those two knights are Harpy Proxies. I brought the models, but forgot the Flight stands, so had to borrow what was available with the same base size. 

I'm getting better at taking consistent pictures, but I forgotten to after T2a - was quite scatterbrained today and forgotten a fair few of my own rules and effects during the game. Could be just tired. Please note the final score is missing some points from his end - the game is a bit closer than it looks at T3. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Battle Report: Nidzilla Crusher Stampede Vs. Adeptus Sororitas


Tyranids:



Tyranid Battalion (Leviathan)

SPOILER: Click to show

HQ

- Malanthrope: WLT[Alphabeast] - Swarm Leader, RLC - Adaptive Neural Lobe

- "Hulkrant": Wings, Double MST, AG, TS, RLC - Biomorphic Carapace, ADPT - Accelerated Digestion. SPELLS: Mass Convergence Tree - D3A and 4++ for model. 
- Swarmlord: SPELLS: PotHM Tree - Catalyst, and Onslaught




Troops

- 3x 3 T.Warriors: LWBS/ScyTal, S.Link - Bioweapon bond




Elites

- 1x 6 Hive Guard: Impalers

- 1x Lictor

Fast Attack
- 1x Dimachaeron: ADPT[Progeny of HM] - Accelerated Digestion




Heavy Support

- 1x Barbed Heirodule: ADPT - Dermic Symbiosis


Flyer
- 2x Harpies: Heavy Venom Cannons

LIST STRATEGY AND PHILOSOPHY

Just to give the main ideas:
1. Leverage the AoR's defensive profiles to outlast the enemy and shell with HG and Barbed Heirodule, as well as support guns from Harpies. 
2. Leverage Leviathan's new obsec trick + AoR's body count obj holding rules to contest enemy Primaries, particularly using Flyrant or Harpies. 
3. Use the Dimachaeron as a missle to go take out an enemy elite, or an enemy objective point using Swarmlord's ability to move fast. 
4. Lictor to swing from 4vp to 8vp on ROD + Engage on a turn. 
5. Everything dies, or can die. It just matters what they took to the grave with them.
6. Keep contesting their home objectives with the thicc bodies, dont let them move into your half of the board freely. 


Adeptus Sororitas:

SPOILER: Click to show

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [96 PL, 9CP, 1,998pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Order Convictions: Order: Valorous Heart

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Open the Reliquaries [-1CP]: Additional Relics of the Ecclesiarchy

+ HQ +

Celestine and Geminae Superia [10 PL, 200pts]
. 2x Geminae Superia: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Power sword

Ephrael Stern and Kyganil of the Bloody Tears [6 PL, 120pts]

Morvenn Vahl [13 PL, 265pts]: Warlord

+ Troops +

Battle Sister Squad [3 PL, -1CP, 55pts]
. 4x Battle Sister: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Sister Superior: Relic: Litanies of Faith, Stratagem: A Sacred Burden
. . Bolt Pistol & Boltgun

Battle Sister Squad [3 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Battle Sister: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Sister Superior
. . Bolt Pistol & Boltgun

Battle Sister Squad [3 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Battle Sister: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Sister Superior
. . Bolt Pistol & Boltgun

+ Elites +

Celestian Sacresants [6 PL, 145pts]
. 9x Celestian Sacresant (Hallowed Mace): 9x Bolt pistol, 9x Frag & Krak grenades, 9x Hallowed Mace
. Sacresant Superior: Bolt pistol, Spear of the Faithful

Celestian Sacresants [6 PL, 145pts]
. 9x Celestian Sacresant (Anointed Halberd): 9x Anointed Halberd, 9x Bolt pistol, 9x Frag & Krak grenades
. Sacresant Superior: Bolt pistol, Spear of the Faithful

Celestian Sacresants [6 PL, 103pts]
. 6x Celestian Sacresant (Anointed Halberd): 6x Anointed Halberd, 6x Bolt pistol, 6x Frag & Krak grenades
. Sacresant Superior: Bolt pistol, Spear of the Faithful

Dogmata [4 PL, -1CP, 65pts]: 2. Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude, 5. Verse of Holy Piety, Relic: The Sigil Ecclesiasticus, Stratagem: Saint in the Making

Hospitaller [3 PL, 50pts]: Relic: Book of St. Lucius

+ Fast Attack +

Dominion Squad [4 PL, 80pts]
. Dominion Superior
. . Bolt Pistol & Boltgun
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Artificer-crafted storm bolter
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Artificer-crafted storm bolter
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Artificer-crafted storm bolter
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Artificer-crafted storm bolter

Seraphim Squad [4 PL, 90pts]
. 2x Seraphim: 4x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades
. Seraphim Superior: Bolt pistol, Bolt pistol
. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Ministorum Hand Flamers
. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Ministorum Hand Flamers

+ Heavy Support +

Exorcist [9 PL, 180pts]: Exorcist Missile Launcher

Retributor Squad [6 PL, 155pts]: 2x Armourium Cherub
. Retributor Superior: Ministorum Hand Flamer
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta

Retributor Squad [6 PL, 155pts]: 2x Armourium Cherub
. Retributor Superior: Ministorum Hand Flamer
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta

+ Dedicated Transport +

Sororitas Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]

++ Total: [96 PL, 9CP, 1,998pts] ++

Map and Mission:







Mission: Surround and Destroy; 6 Objectives, Hold 1, Hold 2, Hold More.



Map and rough deployment ideas:imgur.com/a/OZsDEnW



Secondaries:



Nids - Grind Them Down, Retrieve Octarius Data, Engage on All Fronts


Sororitas - Engage on All Fronts, Raise Banners, Bring It Down






PREGAME ANALYSIS



Going in blind - Across the table I see 27 Sacrosancts and I have no idea what they do, other than they're bodyguards and they're hard to kill. I figure straight up that if I send any of my MCs into them, they would die, and not kill anything in return, so I make it a mental point to avoid getting bogged down with them especially since I am NOT Kraken. At this point, I know Sisters have lost their old long range super power melta, and their ap-1/2 trick isnt as strong as it used to be. I know Vahl is stupid tanky and outputs respectable damage, and I know Celestine comes back to life when killed. I know they have miracle dice - that's about the extent of my knowledge, and whatever tidbits I remember from listening to Art of War podcasts that featued Sisters, nearly 5 or 6 months ago I think. 

He's got a unit of flamer girls on deepstrike and some eldar/human couple unit, which I'd never seen before (but have heard of before), but have no idea what they do. Turns out, they're really good, but I didnt think much of it at this point and just considered it an EoAF scorer. 

In my head I planned out a 3 turn game where I would send in 1 Harpy unit a turn, expect it to get toasted or totalled almost immediately, send in the next one, get it toasted, and just disturb his back objective the entire day, while HG shoots and dismantles his army slowly.

I figured I could tank the meltas. In hindsight, I should have made them priority number 1, but at this point in time, I wasnt feeling too worried as I figured I had enough wounds to survive, forgetting that each unit gets to shoot 8 + 2 + 2 melta shots at relatively good accuracy. 






DEPLOYMENT



So, we deploy off against each other. Deployment was relatively uneventful - my opponent basically did a textbook deployment of hiding everything behind the LOS blocker and having ObSec on each home objective. You can see from the pictures, but the deployment zone were 2 Ruins close to each other and one end open only with some walls providing Dense cover right behind them (the gap in the middle provided nothing). These ruins have no area terrain under them, which means their "base" is drawn from wall to wall in our standard practice. You notice I place my HG straddling that line - if I cross it, I can be seen through the windows basically, and would eat melta to the face. 

I had slight issues with deployment - I wanted to keep everything within the Malanthrope -1 to hit bubble. With the ruin's placement and the available space to move, I could not make it quite well. In the end I opted for majority to be within the bubble, and for the final Harpy to be off to the side by itself. Both harpies were setup with the intention of getting straight into the enemy's home objective if possible or the opportunity presented itself. 




Then the roll off - and Sororitas go first. 






BATTLE REPORT



Top T1 - SOB (0-0)



Immediately I am reminded of how many tricks the Imperium has at its disposal. It starts out with a Scout Move Rhino because someone inside has Scout Move. This gets the first volley of Melta dangerously close to my face - in fact, after max move, he was only 1" off getting half range for magic numbers. Dominions which I mistook for normal Battle Sisters pop out alongside as well and just set up shop near the objective, while the Retributors make for the objective. Sacrosancts all move up and advance, Battle Sisters stay on point and Raise Banners.  Vahn sets up shop near the centre where she can access any brawl I start, and Celestine moves up infront of the bodyguards bravely, knowing she cant actually be shot. 


Psychic phase didnt exist;



Shooting Phase, I meet trick number 2 - 4 girls with multi meltas gets you 8 shots, then 2 more shots because of a cherub, and 2 more shots because of a 2nd cherub. So that unit suddenly dumped 12 shots of melta on me, doing a total of 12W damage to my Barbed Heirodule (it would have been 18 if not for -1D). Then, trick number 3 - that organ in the background suddenly ignores LOS for 2cp, and also ignores all modifiers to hit for 1cp, and makes a beeline for my Hive Guard. 3d3 shots of D6 damage, dear lord. I get super lucky off this, and suffer 0 losses to my HG from the AoR invul. 




Fight Phase didnt happen. 

He scores 0 for secondaries.






Bottom T1 - Nids (0-0)



I pause here for a moment, my head swamped with info of basically learning 2 new armies at once and trying to process and trying to figure out the best and most efficient way forward. Happy to say I didnt - I thought too much and got decision paralysis, and started using all my tools wrong. I knew the organ had to die - ignore LOS shooting on a 3d3 shot D6 damage platform is not a joke. I also knew I wanted to stick to my original plan of denying primaries - and I forgot about the best part of the Harpy's new kit, which was Break Through!, and neglected to take that into consideration for objective control. I knew he also had flamers come in that could charge my warriors and likely kill it outright - but I had no screens, and decided to use the far right harpy as a screen while letting it shoot this turn. He also had control of 4 objectives - I needed to wrest control of 3 at least from him to deny some primaries.

Command Phase, I buff the left harpy with ObSec, give +1 to hit to Barbed and both Harpies, and reroll to hit to HG. 

With that general idea in mind, I moved as such - Hulkrant to the front to take out the retributors or the girls right next to them and secure the objective, Barbed just moves up to sit in the terrain if it can (it was hurt too much to get there) and have access to multiple "troops" to shoot. Dimachaeron makes a break for the top right objective, Harpy flies for the top left, warriors advance to get into the middle right objective and contest the girls there. Remaining Warrior unit on the right behind obscuring does ROD.

Psychic Phase, I get d3A and 4++ off on the Dimachaeron. I meet trick number 4, where Sisters ALL have an auto deny on 6+, and a strategem to deny on 4+. This makes casting strategies extremely risky, and makes me unable to use Advance to guarantee distance until I get the spell off. Swarmlord casts, and passes Onslaught on the warriors, but fails Catalyst on Hulkrant. 

Shooting phase, I nearly get decision paralysis again, but it was also insanely bad. Barbed Heirodule gets +1 but is plebbed, so 3+ to hit only. Fires 12 shots into the Retributors, killing only 1. Left Harpy fires into the organ, getting 6D through. Right Harpy fires into the girls on top right, getting 0 through. HG takes exploding 6s strategem, has to full volley into the Organ to finish it off, and then split volleys 3 guys into the Dominions which I mistook as Battle Sisters, and then 3 guys into the contesting battle sisters, getting a total of 0 and 1 kills respectively. Godlike save rolls, even if the Valorant Heart effect was really making a big deal here. 

Fight Phase, I realized a fatal error - the Dimachaeron I thought needed an 7 or 8" charge to get into range for combat. Except, he cant land on the stupid walls, and has no space to fight from infront of it, so has to move behind it. That adds a good 3" or more to the charge, making it a nearly impossible 11 or 12. Major mistake has been made. I accept I wasted the Dimachaeron and move on to the Flyrant, AND FORGOT TO CHARGE THE HARPY ON THE LEFT FOR FREE MORTALS. The Flyrant nearly flubs killing the Retributors, but the tail actually does something for the first time and takes the last one out. 

I score 3 for Grind Them Down, and 3 for EoAF.

In Hindsight, I made extremely bad use of my tools here while trying to maximize all of them - what the ideal and optimal play was for the Harpies to move up on the left and right. Left takes ObSec, Right just sets up to shoot both the tank and charge the girls on the objective, if not to charge the 2nd squad of Retributors that I totally forgot about. Let the 2 Harpies take out the organ, the HG finishes it off if it can, and focus on the Dominion squad or on the 7 man Sacrosanct squad. Barbed moves up to pour all shots into the Retributor like before, but also if it can to charge them. Flyrant set up for the charge if the Barbed cant,  or get set up to go all in on Celestine or Vahl before they get to move out properly. And Finally, Dimachaeron to remove the middle obsec girls, while a warrior unit pushes out on the right and RODs so it can afford to die next turn. But I had just created so many options for myself that I suddenly couldnt see what was the ideal choice to make. Personally, this point I threw the game so hard that I deserve the loss that comes. 






Top of T2 - Sororitas (5-6)



Top of 2, He only scores 5 for Primaries, but really picks up speed here. The Dimachaeron is exposed to the 2nd unit of Retributors who can easily make magic range with no effort. Two sacresanct units and the melta unit go on the Dimachaeron, while Vahl and the Dominions close in on the Flyrant. Left side has the battle sisters I forgot to charge, and the 3rd unit of Sacrosancts, all converge on the Harpy. On the bottom right, the Flamer girls came down on my exposed warriors on the objective, while the couple unit popped up 9" away from my right Harpy. 


Psychic phase didnt exist


Shooting phase was both painful and hilarious. I meet trick no.5 with flamer girls coming down and immediately flaming, and getting to flame again once shooting phase arrives. Another trick here that didnt happen but was talked about is auto max hits on Flamers, which he was just saying unecessary as he rolls 3 shots for 2nd shooting round - leaving my warrior alive on the objective. No.6 was a very surprising and shocking 6MW strategem from Stormbolters who now had a full reroll - every 6s to hit from the unit generates 2MW in addition to any other damage. This is like Fleshborer juice, but better, since it only requires 3 hits of 6s to max out properly. Vahl has decent shooting, and it was painful - I ate 4MW from the surprise party, then 2 additional wounds from failed bolter saves, then 5 more damage from Vahl's combined weapons and stray shots, leaving him at 1W left at end of shooting. The Heirodule eats the 2nd 12 shots of Melta, and lives with 2W left. 


Fight phase, I end up burning most of my cp. Dima gets charged by both Sacrosancts, and Flyrant by Vahl and Dominions. Bottom right, the couples make it into the Harpy with a reroll charge. Bottom left, Celestine makes it into the nearly dead Barbed Heirodule. The Dima gets totalled first, so I spend 2cp for it to fight on death from AoR - killing a grand total of 1 Sacrosanct. I immediately interrupt with the Flyrant, throwing all of its attacks into the Dominions to try and kill off the unit. It survives with 1 model left, but I regain 3 wounds from Accel Digestion. Vahl then fights and totals the Flyrant without trying, and the Flyrant fights on death with the codex strategem, but does only 2D to her (only 1 failed goes through). He then explodes, dealing 1D to the last Dominion, and 1 more D to her through her 4+++. Then I meet trick 7 (which is actually supposed to be a series of tricks all from the same damn 2 models), where this unit has: -1 to hit, -1 to wound, 4++5+++ against everything, ignores invuls, has 11W in 2 models, and gets a free un-deniable smite cast complete with supersmite conditions, and mods to make it easier vs chaos. Basically, my Harpy cant kill this unit and is gonna be stuck or trapped for awhile while eating 3D that IGNORES INVULS. Sacrosanct melee is actually kinda scary, hitting S6 and S5 in general, with -3ap, and 1D or 2D. But in the AoR, it's all 1D into invul so it takes awhile to whittle us down. Celestine whiffs a bit and brings the Barbed Heirodule down to like, 4W left or something. 


He scores 5 for BiD, and 3 for EoAF, and 1 for Banners. 


Bottom T2 - Nids (14-21)





Bottom of T2, I score hold/hold2/hold more, so 15 on Primaries. At this point I scratch my head - I dont have great tools left and what I do have cant really fight its way out of the problem it's facing. I just know I have to free the Harpy on bottom right without falling back, and I need to make sure I double kill Celestine through her -1D. I burnt 6cp from my own general missplays last turn, so I dont have enough cp to do a lot this turn. Actually, only 3. In my head I had to keep 1 for explode, and 1 for reroll wounds on SL who had to take out Vahl. So I tagged Right Harpy (should have tagged the warriors themselves), HG, and Barbed with +1 to hit. 

Left and Right warriros line up charges on Celestine/Couples respectively. SL heads out to take down Vahl himself. Lictor drops into the top right and RODs - literally just enough space for 1 model. This also scores me 4pts of ROD and 3 EoAF from this. Not much other movements as I left the Harpies in combat. 

Psychic Phase, I peril-failed Smite, and got Catalyst off SL. That's it. 

In Shooting, Barbed unloaded everything into Celestine - he took out 1 girl bodyguard, and did 2W to Celestine (2 went through, she has -1D naturally), leaving her with 4W left. I did not trust SL's ability to secure Vahl, so I shot the HG into her, dealing 5D in total to her - at this point she's at 1W remaining, but I dont notice until later. I forgot about the Harpy's stinger salvos, so left that behind. 

in Fight, the unit all charged - SL killed Vahl without issue,  since she only had 1W left. But the warrior units whiffed extremely hard - 9A failed to hit or wound all on Celestine, and the one on the couple got 1D through the -1/-1/4++/5+++. Celestine Fights and kills the Barbed, and I force it to explode, killing 1 warrior, and bringing Celestine to 1W left. The couples start killing the warriors too since they have -3ap ignore invul. 

I score EOAF, and ROD, but cant score GtD at all this turn. 






Top of T3 - Sororitas (16-28)




Top of T3, basically things are looking easy game for him at this point. Sacresancts waltz down to SL, right Sacresancts waltz down to the objective, MMs move towards SL to get him in range. Top left and Bottom right continue to tussle, and Flamer girls move to set up on bottom right Warriors to finish them off. 

Psychic doesnt exist

Shooting, SL surprisingly only took 6D from the meltas through his fnp. Although I think the fnp save was atrocious, saving 1 out of 7 or something. Bolt pistols from the sacresancts - that's about it. The shop is begining to close so we agree to finish T3 and count from there. 

Fight phase, the Sacresancts charge SL. They get another 2-3W on him, and he hits back, but only kills 2 or so. The warriors go on Celestine to force her last W and force her revive now - they whiff everything, again. Right warrior was brought to a single guy left, and the Harpy has 3W left. Top left is still tussling at 4W left.  

He scores EOAF again, and another point for banner. At this point, I lose control of the map, so I can no longer even attempt to contest Primaries. 




Bottom of T3 - Nids (29-38)



Bottom of T3, I failed to score Celestine's revive, so the game got extremely dicey. I walked very quickly through potential scoring, which was basically 2vp on EoAF(could have been 3) and Primary, for a total of 40. Assuming we played it, I would have had to fall back with the warriors on both sides, shoot Celestine with the HG, and hope she doesnt revive. If she'd revive, my game would be over at that point. If she didnt, I'd score 1 more turn for 5vp at T4, before taking 0 at T5. He would have gotten 15vp on T4, then 15vp again on T5 - solidifying the win. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Post game, my impression is that the list has legs - if I had pilot'ed better, I would have made the game easily in my favour. However, scoring is actually a severe issue for the list, and these invuls being everywhere are extremely hard to deal with without genestealers. Sacrosancts are really annoying - T3, 2+ 4++, getting d3 models back every turn from a hospitalier, and actually having decent weight of attacks of decent profile. Of all the monsters we have that could deal with this, the Haruspex is the only one, purely by virtue of his d3H per A, which may not have done all that much either. TG probably would have done much better too, but to run TG I would have to give up both a Lictor and the Dimachaeron, which leaves us at very awkward points totals. 

Something I would try for v2.0 and above though is having less warriors but bigger units. The Dimachaeron hasnt performed well in any single game for me, often because of its fat base making it extremely difficult for it to find an attack angle it can reach. Going forward I would definitely be dropping the Dima for some other source of damage, whether its another Flyrant, TG, or a Scythed Heirodule just for extra guns. Guns are very important, and I feel keenly I dont really have enough of them. 

As always, leave any thoughts on improving these batreps - I've been thinking of moving them to google docs so I can input pictures under the right segment rather than an imgur dump, and this thread would basically be like a link, some thoughts, and an index/other discussion. 

I also missed having more Warriors - having my usual 5 would have turned each of those engages on my terms, even with my boo-boos. 

[No One]

One thing is I've got no idea what sisters thing is where: is it the 2nd ret unit back in the obscuring?

That terrain wow, I see what you mean by

Mind, from memory TTS boards are pretty chonky on terrain and that's a major consideration - in my games, Scythed and Killrigs generally get to run around doing whatever they please, and my Barbed has never been really denied sightlines before, other than directly behind huge obscuring ruin in deployment zone.

Overall thoughts:

In my head I planned out a 3 turn game where I would send in 1 Harpy unit a turn, expect it to get toasted or totalled almost immediately, send in the next one, get it toasted, and just disturb his back objective the entire day, while HG shoots and dismantles his army slowly.

It's hold 1/2 on a 6 objective map. That maybe works if you'd gone 1st (keep to hold 1 while dismantling the army and picking off obsec and important kill pieces), but going 2nd you need to commit a lot more to it. And it's also hard to do into sisters: while there's not much obsec (part of the issue with the strat in general), they've got a lot of trade pieces and units that can just push onto objectives and force you to throw a more expensive unit on their if you want to contest.

Basically, take out their damage as 1st priority, which is fortunately on midfield objectives so you can take them out. Bother their backfield if really needed/opportunity presents, but (at least here) I don't think doing that early gets you anything. If you'd let them keep their back right objective and instead sent the dima into Vahl (assuming fit), then you...well, maybe don't kill her because 4++ and MD, but you shouldn't die either, and then either take her out of the fight, or kill her next turn. And the sacs aren't doing anything helpful yet. Provided you can fit, but could probably swap places with the flyrant otherwise, just...not as good. Breaking through is also a good way of trying to deal with Celestine (you could possibly have one rounded her with the flyrant with psychic+breakthrough+harpy for the first, and then finish in combat. But risky with denies and you don't really have the powers/casts to do so. And still need to deal with the rets+doms: though if dima couldn't charge Vahl, possibly a better play to send it into them and flyrant into Celestine rather than Vahl).

ignore LOS shooting on a 3d3 shot D6 damage platform is not a joke.

Eh, it's 0-2 HG for 3 CP, that's not good. That said, it's still solid into the MCs, and you've got no other good targets for the harpies. But rets higher priority for HG: also could you have tagged with harpy (provided you remembered to charge )?

Anyway, minor things:

every 6s to hit from the unit generates 2MW in addition to any other damage.

Instead of: it's still strong though.

Then I meet trick 7 (which is actually supposed to be a series of tricks all from the same damn 2 models), where this unit has: -1 to hit, -1 to wound, 4++5+++ against everything, ignores invuls, has 11W in 2 models, and gets a free un-deniable smite cast complete with supersmite conditions, and mods to make it easier vs chaos. Basically, my Harpy cant kill this unit and is gonna be stuck or trapped for awhile while eating 3D that IGNORES INVULS.

So I'm not sure how much of this you're misremembering/brevity, but I'd suggest you read their datasheet (https://wahapedia.ru/wh40k9ed/factions/adepta-sororitas/Ephrael-Stern-and-Kyganil-of-the-Bloody-Tears). Not all of that is always active (though the -1/-1/4++ is...). Also only D2 at best, so should...well, not bounce per se, but closer to a slap fight.

Sacrosanct melee is actually kinda scary, hitting S6 and S5 in general, with -3ap, and 1D or 2D.

Eh, outside sarge it's 2 attacks S5 -1 D2 or S6 -3 D1. Solid, but not doing a whole heap outside of Vahl (or BR, BR sacs hurt), and maybe some of the other fun things sisters can do. Massed mid strength mid AP is very good into the AoR though.

However, scoring is actually a severe issue for the list, and these invuls being everywhere are extremely hard to deal with without genestealers. Sacrosancts are really annoying - T3, 2+ 4++, getting d3 models back every turn from a hospitalier, and actually having decent weight of attacks of decent profile.

Yeah, weight of attacks to get through hordes (or horde-ish like sacs) is definitely an issue. Sacs we at least have a decent answer to in breaking through (and to a lesser extend dima MWs), but sisters just have many units and good tools for MC killing.