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Post by jplayah on Aug 21, 2021 0:48:57 GMT
Apologies in advance if you guys know this one already, but with some careful model placement, I found that I was able to fit 30 termagants within 3 inches of the BACK HALF of a trygon prime. Specifically, the units chosen are:
30 Termagant with Devourer (210 points)
1 Trygon Prime with Adrenal Glands, Bio-Electric Pulse, Biostatic Rattle, Massive Scything Talons x3 (180 points)
Total point cost: 390
The play:
1. Unburrow the trygon prime and unload the termagants behind it and to the sides. Since the trygon prime must be 9 inches from any enemies, this puts your furthest termagant 15.74 inches away from enemies - still within the 18 inch firing range of its devourer.
2. Shoot things with termagants. 3. Scream "LEEROY JENKINS" and yeet your trygon prime into the enemy. 4. Abuse the Adaptive Physiology you took to put murderous size on the trygon prime's massive scything talons and shred whatever big unit you just charged into. 5. The trygon prime provides synapse to the termagants since it's still in range.
Note that terrain and line of sight might mean a smaller number of termagants is optimal. However, you CAN bring all 30 if you want them.
Have fun.
P.S. Is this the most optimal use of 390 points? Probably not. But is it entertaining? Absolutely.
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Aug 21, 2021 2:07:43 GMT
Ive always found what the Trygon, or Prime, wants to charge is usually in a different area than what the Terms want to shoot, so only one unit in the drop was able to be used effectively. Through trial and error, I came to the conclusion that a Tyrgon with min Warriors or a Trygon Prime with min Fleshborer Terms worked better for scoring VP.
With strategic reserves, the tactic isn’t what it used to be since a Lictor and 2CP is a shallower price and easier placement than a Trygon Prime.
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Post by No One on Aug 21, 2021 2:53:45 GMT
Yeah, it's 400 pts to probably not shoot what you want, and/or probably not be able to charge what you want: you're not looking at much leeway for most of the unit, so you're likely shooting the same as the charge target, which means one will suck, and possibly mean you kill out of range. Then it's still an 8" charge, and then still possibly whiff in combat because swingy damage is swingy (size helps a lot, but...then you're using one of your limited use adapts). And then they all die next turn.
Like, it's a thing you can do, that...doesn't mean it's any good.
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Post by jplayah on Aug 21, 2021 4:59:03 GMT
Yeah, it's 400 pts to probably not shoot what you want, and/or probably not be able to charge what you want: you're not looking at much leeway for most of the unit, so you're likely shooting the same as the charge target, which means one will suck, and possibly mean you kill out of range. Then it's still an 8" charge, and then still possibly whiff in combat because swingy damage is swingy (size helps a lot, but...then you're using one of your limited use adapts). And then they all die next turn. Like, it's a thing you can do, that...doesn't mean it's any good. Look, I apologize for my bad ideas. It's not easy for me to have conversations about tactics with a group of highly experienced players who probably already know the best way to approach any strategy. If I come up with my own ideas, they're either bad because they're not S-tier hyperoptimized or they're the obvious choice and therefore a waste of time to discuss, and if I ask the community what to do, I look like a baby asking to get spoonfed.
Maybe someday we can get a new codex and then I'll actually spot a new tactic and say something worth listening to.  |
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Post by arsonfire on Aug 21, 2021 7:26:28 GMT
This is commonly known as a devilgaunt bomb.
30 termagants with devourers dropping in, and shooting twice with the Single-Minded Annihilation stratagem for 180 shots.
In the past during 8th edition, trygons were the main way of doing it. But currently it's usually done with strategic reserves. Lictors are usually around to pheromone trail the gaunts into a better position if arriving from a table side isn't sufficient.
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Post by kazetanade on Aug 21, 2021 8:29:04 GMT
Yeah, it's 400 pts to probably not shoot what you want, and/or probably not be able to charge what you want: you're not looking at much leeway for most of the unit, so you're likely shooting the same as the charge target, which means one will suck, and possibly mean you kill out of range. Then it's still an 8" charge, and then still possibly whiff in combat because swingy damage is swingy (size helps a lot, but...then you're using one of your limited use adapts). And then they all die next turn. Like, it's a thing you can do, that...doesn't mean it's any good. Look, I apologize for my bad ideas. It's not easy for me to have conversations about tactics with a group of highly experienced players who probably already know the best way to approach any strategy. If I come up with my own ideas, they're either bad because they're not S-tier hyperoptimized or they're the obvious choice and therefore a waste of time to discuss, and if I ask the community what to do, I look like a baby asking to get spoonfed.
Maybe someday we can get a new codex and then I'll actually spot a new tactic and say something worth listening to. Honestly, you can do what you want to do - you already highlighted its not the best use of points, but its fun. And it is. Trygons making combat and wrecking things is fun. This community never makes fun of people asking for advice - infact a majority of posts are asking for *competitive* options because they don't know what to do, and the general answers are with competitive application in mind. When you're looking for competitive options, you do need some level of optimized resource use, and some level of consistency in performance. Off the cuff, a 9" rerollable barely touches 40% chance of success; an 8" rerollable is about 50%. This is the main reason why the Trygon bomb has not been considered competitive, before considering terrain complications. But if you like the Trygon and want to use it, go nuts. This community in general also likes new ideas, and has explored a lot of them over the years in each edition. Some of them are duds, some of them work but are expensive, some of them are our best options - you won't know until you broach the subject, but expect people will view it from some level of competition play. Whats not cool is being upset that people are not agreeing with you and dropping into a well of self pity. Edit: by the by. I think you can sit 30 Dev gants, 5 zoeys, and 5 warriors in the deployment bubble. Trygon/mawloc/Rav taxi can be pretty powerful depending on your matchup. But due to Trygons need to charge to make value back, its usually better to use a Rav taxi instead to make use of the Jorm strategem to pull this. If you want charges with Trygon, you should also try Hormagant drop with Trygon in behemoth - cast +1 to wound on the Horms, and send them into things to plink wounds like the annoying gretchins that they are. Trygon just does his thing like normal. For even more consistency, since it's a Trygon Prime, you can pop the extra D6 on the hormagant charge strategem to boost your charge success chance to nearly 70%. And if you're willing to spend points for AG (usually advised against), that's a 7" rerollable 3D6 drop lowest - its something like nearly guaranteed. No One does numbers better than I do. That's a total that's cheaper than your setup, but slightly easier to use, and almost as annoying (and is in fact more annoying if you didn't use double shoot on the termagants) |
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Post by bolk on Aug 21, 2021 8:32:02 GMT
Yeah, it's 400 pts to probably not shoot what you want, and/or probably not be able to charge what you want: you're not looking at much leeway for most of the unit, so you're likely shooting the same as the charge target, which means one will suck, and possibly mean you kill out of range. Then it's still an 8" charge, and then still possibly whiff in combat because swingy damage is swingy (size helps a lot, but...then you're using one of your limited use adapts). And then they all die next turn. Like, it's a thing you can do, that...doesn't mean it's any good. Look, I apologize for my bad ideas. It's not easy for me to have conversations about tactics with a group of highly experienced players who probably already know the best way to approach any strategy. If I come up with my own ideas, they're either bad because they're not S-tier hyperoptimized or they're the obvious choice and therefore a waste of time to discuss, and if I ask the community what to do, I look like a baby asking to get spoonfed. Maybe someday we can get a new codex and then I'll actually spot a new tactic and say something worth listening to. Bad idea no, just a well known tactic that doesn't work all that great anymore. It's quite some time since the 8th codex came out, so we've looked over all the tricks that came with it 200 times over. If it works for you in a friendly game, knock yourself out, but in the tournament sector it's just a waste of almost 400 points by now. And there's no such thing here as a stupid question. Tyranids is not an easy army to play, and it's an uphill battle against most 9th codex armies now. So no, you don't look like a baby being spoonfed if you ask some questions in here. |
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Post by jplayah on Aug 21, 2021 8:51:32 GMT
Look, I apologize for my bad ideas. It's not easy for me to have conversations about tactics with a group of highly experienced players who probably already know the best way to approach any strategy. If I come up with my own ideas, they're either bad because they're not S-tier hyperoptimized or they're the obvious choice and therefore a waste of time to discuss, and if I ask the community what to do, I look like a baby asking to get spoonfed. Maybe someday we can get a new codex and then I'll actually spot a new tactic and say something worth listening to. Bad idea no, just a well known tactic that doesn't work all that great anymore. It's quite some time since the 8th codex came out, so we've looked over all the tricks that came with it 200 times over. If it works for you in a friendly game, knock yourself out, but in the tournament sector it's just a waste of almost 400 points by now. And there's no such thing here as a stupid question. Tyranids is not an easy army to play, and it's an uphill battle against most 9th codex armies now. So no, you don't look like a baby being spoonfed if you ask some questions in here. Speaking of surprise tactics then, what's the opinion on airdropping a Tyrannofex and firing 40 shots into the enemy, rerolling 1s and dealing 2 damage per hit?
I mean maybe it will die, but how much stuff is it going to take to the grave with it?
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Post by hivefleetkerrigan on Aug 21, 2021 12:06:46 GMT
Unfortunately, the turn you come in, you will count as having moved, so you will only get 20 shots. The fleshborer hive has some good synergies with strategems (scorch bugs for +1 to wound and +1 damage).
That being said, I generally run devourer gaunts. They have obsec, can advance and shoot, and have more wounds.
I think tfex with fleshborer hives could have a place in a nidzilla list. In that case, enemy antiinfantry shots would not have a good target. You would have some decent screen clearing with the fleshborer hive.
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Post by purestrain on Aug 21, 2021 13:32:49 GMT
Unfortunately, the turn you come in, you will count as having moved, so you will only get 20 shots. The fleshborer hive has some good synergies with strategems (scorch bugs for +1 to wound and +1 damage). That being said, I generally run devourer gaunts. They have obsec, can advance and shoot, and have more wounds. I think tfex with fleshborer hives could have a place in a nidzilla list. In that case, enemy antiinfantry shots would not have a good target. You would have some decent screen clearing with the fleshborer hive. Scorch bugs is +1 wound, +1 damage is a 2cp strat of its own. |
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Aug 21, 2021 14:05:00 GMT
Speaking of surprise tactics then, what's the opinion on airdropping a Tyrannofex and firing 40 shots into the enemy, rerolling 1s and dealing 2 damage per hit?
I mean maybe it will die, but how much stuff is it going to take to the grave with it?
It’s an idea that works a bit better in Jorm than Kronos (I assume from rr 1’s). Jorm’s fleet power will give the tfex rr all failed hits, so you go from a swingy 10 avg hits to a consistent 15 avg hits. Certainly makes spending the CP on scorch bugs less risky, nothing like dropping a CP and then rolling 3/20 hits. Then you get the 2+ cover save to make removing a bigger investment. Outside of Jorm, Acid Spray offers better consistency since you can do a CP rr for shot amount and auto-hit in overwatch. |
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Post by zimko on Aug 21, 2021 14:41:35 GMT
Devgants are great as Kraken and don't need a delivery system. 1 CP to double their advance (reliably moving 16 to 18 inches with kraken's 3d6 advance rules) and then cast onslaught to negate the -1 to hit from advancing.
Alternatively, if there's no good place to hide the devgants on the board in turn 1 (9th edition uses a lot of terrain so there should be a place...) then you can spend 1 CP to put them in strategic reserves. Then on turn 2 or 3, they can arrive from a board edge OR you can spend another 1 CP to arrive within 6" of a Lictor that also just arrived.
This combination is flexible, allowing you to have turn 1 board presence or to have the surprise of arriving from reserves.
In both cases, it's worth spending 2 CP to shoot twice against most targets. I wouldn't waste these shots on anything with a 2+ armor save tho.
If you want to use a Trygon to accomplish the same thing that a Lictor can, then go for it. Just know that competitively the trygon will be wasted. He's much too fragile and unreliably charging from reserves. A Lictor tho can do the same job for 2 extra CP, while also performing his usual duty of scoring Engage on All Fronts and performing an action for Retrieve Octarius Data.
However, I'm just one of those annoying competitive players that has forgotten what it's like to play casual games. None exist where I play. This codex has been out for FAR too long and there's not much more that can be dissected. Feel free to ask for tips tho as someone is always willing to share their experience.
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Post by jplayah on Aug 21, 2021 15:52:57 GMT
Speaking of surprise tactics then, what's the opinion on airdropping a Tyrannofex and firing 40 shots into the enemy, rerolling 1s and dealing 2 damage per hit?
I mean maybe it will die, but how much stuff is it going to take to the grave with it?
It’s an idea that works a bit better in Jorm than Kronos (I assume from rr 1’s). Jorm’s fleet power will give the tfex rr all failed hits, so you go from a swingy 10 avg hits to a consistent 15 avg hits. Certainly makes spending the CP on scorch bugs less risky, nothing like dropping a CP and then rolling 3/20 hits. Then you get the 2+ cover save to make removing a bigger investment. Outside of Jorm, Acid Spray offers better consistency since you can do a CP rr for shot amount and auto-hit in overwatch. For sure on that acid spray for certain targets. I was thinking about using the fleshborer hive to melt entire units of cannon fodder in basically one go while playing sound effects from the A-10 Warthog's machine gun for the meme potential, because that's effectively what I'm dropping on the enemy. |
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Post by hivefleetkerrigan on Aug 21, 2021 16:31:03 GMT
Unfortunately, the turn you come in, you will count as having moved, so you will only get 20 shots. The fleshborer hive has some good synergies with strategems (scorch bugs for +1 to wound and +1 damage). That being said, I generally run devourer gaunts. They have obsec, can advance and shoot, and have more wounds. I think tfex with fleshborer hives could have a place in a nidzilla list. In that case, enemy antiinfantry shots would not have a good target. You would have some decent screen clearing with the fleshborer hive. Scorch bugs is +1 wound, +1 damage is a 2cp strat of its own. Sorry, that's what I meant. I should have been clearer. |
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Post by kazetanade on Aug 21, 2021 20:56:21 GMT
It’s an idea that works a bit better in Jorm than Kronos (I assume from rr 1’s). Jorm’s fleet power will give the tfex rr all failed hits, so you go from a swingy 10 avg hits to a consistent 15 avg hits. Certainly makes spending the CP on scorch bugs less risky, nothing like dropping a CP and then rolling 3/20 hits. Then you get the 2+ cover save to make removing a bigger investment. Outside of Jorm, Acid Spray offers better consistency since you can do a CP rr for shot amount and auto-hit in overwatch. For sure on that acid spray for certain targets. I was thinking about using the fleshborer hive to melt entire units of cannon fodder in basically one go while playing sound effects from the A-10 Warthog's machine gun for the meme potential, because that's effectively what I'm dropping on the enemy. You won't be melting anything by itself - 20 shots 15 hits 12 wounds (assumed rerolls from Jorm and Scorch Bugs), into 6 failed saves for general 4+ saves. Works tonnes better if we can secure the double shoot rule on drop, but sadly we can't. That goes for both Exocrene and Tfex now. Standing from base though? 40 shots no reroll do fair better but not by much.20 hits, 17 wounds, 9 failed saves into generic 4+ - almost enough to wipe a cannon fodder min squad. A Jorm drop for that devilgant squad though... it hurts way more with the same points and cp expenditure. Devilgants also make a great backdrop for those machine-gun noises you want to make. |
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