Warzone Octarius

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Devil gaunts can't be replaced by a tervigon, only fleshborer gaunts can.

I'll probably try to dust off some old tervigon lists Frome 8e and see how they perform in 9e.

[LordPathos]

All the Synaptic Link abilities are most likely going to be in our eventual codex, correct? Unless I really, really want that Supplement Leviathan, I don't need Octarius book 1, right? I've been doing such a good job not getting every new book right off the shelf.

[bestaltan]

We have no idea what will be in the codex, or even when it comes out. Synaptic link does seem to be what one of our overall faction rules will be though, I’m guessing.

[LordPathos]

It most likely will be our Tyranid only army rule. Provided it sticks around, of course.

[No One]

kazetanade said:

Someone please explain why every resource available is looking down on our first proper character assassin. If there was 4D rerollable wounds ignore invul in any other codex people would be all over that like ants at a picnic. The only thing is no reroll to hit, since it cant benefit from Swarm Leader, but seriously it's already a 16" moving FLY platform that also Smites and Screams, and has a gun that can either spit 3 flat damage at you, or spit a tonne of S6/S7 shots at you. And we havent started talking about taking out like, Drukhari/AdM characters with it, or stacking it with the very sharp extra -1ap after killing something for ap-4. What else are we spending Adaptations for anyway? It's not like HG are great for the Adaptation anymore when we're staring at stupid Ork buggies with 2d6 ignore LOS at ap-3. If we've got a thick Warrior blob at least they get -1D on it too, and that's a big deal in this meta today with stupid Volkites and Buggies everywhere.

I dunno: maybe giving them the benefit of the doubt they forgot that adapts can go on relics?

Tyranid Warriors are OK-ish as general output but give you no other functionality

I mean, outside BL (and flyrant, which meh, and trygon prime, which good but trygon prime) that's the case with all of them. And warriors are really easy to fit into a list. It's 70 pts for +1 to hit and a decent troop slot/obsec objective camper/screen. It's not as good as a gaunt unit at those roles, but...it gives +1 to hit. And you're Leviathan, so the extra Synapse is appreciated. And unlike the terv, the buff is ranged or melee.

windwalkerranger said:

Regarding the tervigon; I think we are focusing too much on killing power that obviously comes with the new toys. But there's also the defensive play, the board presence and the secondary objectives to keep in mind. At this moment I'm strongly thinking on giving the tervigon the -1 to wound relic along with the dermic symbiosis. I also fully intent to play a maleceptor and keep the two together, perhaps even in addition to a malanthroph (the last one is a maybe). All of this just to be able to take "to the last", which should be zoanthrophs, 30xdevilgants, and the tervigon. I'll arrange the rest of the list accordingly. We all know how hard zoans to remove with their pesky 3++, and in leviathan they already get the 6+++. The same goes for the devilgants who will surely get the protection of the broodlord, and who will get replaced by the tervigon as they go down in numbers. And the tervigon will simply not die as long as I can keep feeding the maleceptor strategem. dark lances will hurt it in 6' alone. My insides are going fuzzy thinking about it. AND if I have a malanthroph in there, all of these guys will also get -1 to hit ( in which case maybe the protection from broodlord will be unnecessary).

All of the others, rerolling 1's and 2's to wounds, +1 to hits etc, I'm thinking on precision strikes on opponent characters with toxicrene or genestealer squads or broodlord if my opponent agrees, to use the feeder tendril strategem to regain cp's. AND of course, with proper hive guard support.

Take to the last, octarius data and engage on all fronts, and play the vp game. That's currently what I'm thinking.

The secondary VP game only works if you don't get bodied on primary, and since you're also relying on to the last, you don't need to just get a VP lead and hold it like most board control wants to do, you need to last till T5. Is this viable? Possibly.
But you're
A: Investing massively in defensive tools, many of which just...don't work sometimes. Like against melee. When you don't have much to stop people just wandering up and murdering you. Or MWs, which...well, Leviathan and gaunt screening stops psychic, but not shooting (volcons) or melee (GK). Like, GK just wreck you. DWatch just wreck you. Orks just wreck you. AdMech just wrecks you. Tyranids probably just wreck you. So...yay you're probably good into DE (I'm not even sure of that, it's both DE and they have a really good secondary game as well)? NB: Some of these may not be able to kill the terv easily, but can definitely kill the gaunts/zoans, even if it takes a turn or two. And can definitely also kill the terv once your CP runs out or they have nothing else to do.

B: Can't actually invest in some of our offensive tools. Like, you mention 'proper hive guard support'. That's 270 pts, which is higher than everything but the zoans. You could take a 4 man and have it be lower than the gaunts. But you also lose out on Swarmlord, all our FW stuff, flyrant, full devilgant blob, big stealer blobs...yeah. This isn't to say that this sort of thing can't have play. But it's basically just asking 'can you murder me in 3-5 turns': the answer is usually 'yes'. Where as taking more damage stuff is basically 'can you murder me fast enough that I can't wrack up a decent score lead, as I also murder your key units/scorers'? The answer to that is going to be much less certain. What do you lose by doing this? A 3rd secondary that isn't even that good.

xtztxtxz said:

Quick thought - with these Synaptic Links the Leviathan psychic power from BoB may actually be worth taking now. Especially in the late game when some synapse units have fallen, getting 18" synapse range for everything could extend these essential bonuses anywhere on the table.

Doesn't work: it's synaptic link range, not based off synapse range. Hence the diagrams with 12" hive tyrants.

[topaxygourouni]

Wooooah is the world different for Nids today... What an update!

I can have a Tervigon handing out ALL of the following every turn without even spending CP, all while being nicely obscured and offering a TTL target:

Reroll hits
Reroll wounds 1's and 2's
Reroll 1's on termagants
Resurrect 10 termagants
Refund 1CP on 5+ after enemy CP
Psychic power (catalyst)

Wot. I mean wot.

And if you're really worried about the stratoraptors just swap WLT for -1 to wound and possibly add 5++ adaptation (although probably not needed).

3 random warriors claiming backfield objectives with synapse boost and giving out freaking +1 to hit to HG for like 70 pts?

Woooooot.

What a time to be alive!

Edit: additional meme spec. Rupturefex rerolling EVERYTHING. +1 to hit, reroll hits, reroll practically all wounds, reroll damage. 48" away son.


I will seriously play all my subpar units to see how much I can buff them.

[No One]

topaxygourouni said:

Edit: additional meme spec. Rupturefex rerolling EVERYTHING. +1 to hit, reroll hits, reroll practically all wounds, reroll damage. 48" away son.

No hit rrs for MCs, and you can have max one synaptic link on the same model.

[topaxygourouni]

Oct 17, 2021 8:03:13 GMT No One said:

topaxygourouni said:

Edit: additional meme spec. Rupturefex rerolling EVERYTHING. +1 to hit, reroll hits, reroll practically all wounds, reroll damage. 48" away son.

No hit rrs for MCs, and you can have max one synaptic link on the same model.

Hmm the 1/unit makes the maleceptor buff much worse, except maybe on an acidfex.

Nah, Tervigon is where it's at. Add a mixed unit of 20/10 devourers to fleshborer so you can keep pumping it up.

Heck hormagaunts with 3+ to hit rerolling 1's getting 2 extra hits on 6's for only 1 CP... Can we do the MW on 6's on hormagaunts?

[xtztxtxz]

Oct 17, 2021 8:34:31 GMT topaxygourouni said:

Heck hormagaunts with 3+ to hit rerolling 1's getting 2 extra hits on 6's for only 1 CP... Can we do the MW on 6's on hormagaunts?

Not sure how you'd get MW's from them in Leviathan. The new MW on 6's strat is only for fleshborers.

I think the Prime's ability would work quite well with Hormas, a full brood would expect 10+ auto-wounds on average dice plus a ton of exploding hits. Depending on the target you'd probably also want the AP-1 strat on them too.

[topaxygourouni]

Oct 17, 2021 9:48:45 GMT xtztxtxz said:

Oct 17, 2021 8:34:31 GMT topaxygourouni said:

Heck hormagaunts with 3+ to hit rerolling 1's getting 2 extra hits on 6's for only 1 CP... Can we do the MW on 6's on hormagaunts?

Not sure how you'd get MW's from them in Leviathan. The new MW on 6's strat is only for fleshborers.

I think the Prime's ability would work quite well with Hormas, a full brood would expect 10+ auto-wounds on average dice plus a ton of exploding hits. Depending on the target you'd probably also want the AP-1 strat on them too.

Wait wait wait. Wasn't there a weird rare rule saying if your 6's score extra hits those hits are also counted as 6's?

In such a case, would a hormagaunt unit linked by a Tyranid prime cause 3 autowounds for every hit roll of 6+?

[kazetanade]

I was doing quik-mats earlier and I think we get 60 hits and 15 auto wounds from a Hormagant unit with no other buffs. That's decent.

Assuming T4-5, you get another 20 wounds for 35 saves total - with ap-1, you're looking at 17 damage. That's enough to kill a 5 man unit of. Whatever (but not enough for bladeguard - but still knocks them down a few pegs). At BGV, that's 12 failed saves, so that's 4 roughly.

Assuming you're going into buggies or some such, 6s to wound gets you 10 more wounds, so around 25 saves in total. On a ap-1 gets us 12 wounds, which is just enough to total a medium tank. From Hormagants.

This actually works better than behemoths +1 to wound, so nett damage uptick. Really awesome. Also easier to pull off than Fleshborers combo. Problem is cost - the ap-1 is expensive at 2cp, really. That's a total of 3cp to make that work. But without the ap-1, you would need a bit of assistance from before then to kill things. On the same margin, it also let's you wrap stuff, and finish it in their turn.

[No One]

topaxygourouni said:

Wait wait wait. Wasn't there a weird rare rule saying if your 6's score extra hits those hits are also counted as 6's?

It was weird, and busted, so they changed it. They count as no hit roll.

kazetanade said:

Problem is cost - the ap-1 is expensive at 2cp, really. That's a total of 3cp to make that work. But without the ap-1, you would need a bit of assistance from before then to kill things.

Horms just get AP-1 as a strat for 1 CP, so not sure why you're saying 3? Horms do seem very good: I'm not sure if they're worth it over just running stealers though. Yes stealers cost 2 CP for the explodes, but...you don't need to pay a CP for AP. Might be worth doing some maths on...Melee damage does get around the whole 'command phase' or delivery for the shooting. Which I think is fine just strat reserve+tesla strat, and rrs on melee or hive guard.

I suppose it's just what to do with the synaptic link: prime does seem really good with horms though, especially since I think 6 fishing is better with double exploding 6s.

[puppylaser]

I keep seeing MSU of warriors being recommended, but is there any value to a larger squad with enhanced resistance? Especially with enhanced chitin, they’re pretty tough.

I think with the new +1 they could be good mid-objective sitters that can do more than just look pretty.

[topaxygourouni]

If you play a big blob, gotta treat them as mainstay threat. Must stack buffs on them rather than other units and you must play them aggressively to benefit from their shooting and hth. Sure they work, and with all the new hotness they are probably very good too. Their problem is that their melee is not good enough for 9th (str 4, 1 damage) and you kind of want them in melee. Yes if you push prime buffs and exploding 6's and autowounds etc they will probably give your opponent a fat bucket of saves. Question is, if you have those buffs onto other units, would the bucket be bigger or smaller?

Seriously, so much good stuff now. I will definitely play the Tervigon just for novelty reasons and because I think her ability is the strongest buff you can give to Hive Guard, which means I will probably play some devils too. Other than that, I don't know. I do have 120 painted hormagaunts waiting for their time in the spotlight. Is it now? Hard to say. Giving them double obsec with all their mobility is definitely something, and 2x exploding 6's + autowounds for sure pushes their potential high up, and let's not forget leviathan 6+++ which is basically ,17% more hormagaunts.

I certainly wouldn't mind if it turned out to be good in competitive.

[No One]

Just going through the BoB stuff, seeing if I can spot any other updates:
- Morphic sinews nerfed, no longer ignores heavy penalty in ER.
- Synaptic augmentation nerfed to an aura. But since it's an aura for the unit that has the adaptation...*looks at Leviathan strat to swap adaptations* I think that works. Pricey at 2 CP though, but neat.
- Dynamic camo goes to 'benefit of cover'. So is both easier to proc and works in melee.

I don't think anything else has changed, but the review basically went 'nothing here changed' and didn't exactly show everything...

puppylaser said:

I keep seeing MSU of warriors being recommended, but is there any value to a larger squad with enhanced resistance? Especially with enhanced chitin, they’re pretty tough.

I think with the new +1 they could be good mid-objective sitters that can do more than just look pretty.

Midfield you either need melee durability or expendability. If you invest in a big block, it doesn't have the latter, and isn't really that great on the former, with no -1 D, hit negs, and melee will often be AP3 to just go through resistance. Dynamic camo going to 'benefit of cover' is insteresting though, since...well, 2+ in melee with very little that ignores it. Good enough? Probably not. But if you've got a spare AP, going for a decent sized block of warriors with BL support definitely seems like a solid option.