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Post by hivefleetkerrigan on Aug 7, 2020 12:01:33 GMT
I tried laserspam against White Scars. I had, bladed cog ridgerunners and neophytes. 2 trucks. I also had PGS (their unaffaectuvenessbis covered in another thread). Do you guys get any effectivness out of bladed cog lasers? It’s just so random. With me hitting on 3 (at best with Alphus),He had saves 5+ in cover and invuls), random dammage, I just cant get them very effective. I’ll try again and I’ll also stuff acolytes in the trucks for suicide runs with democharges, rigged to blow and then fight. I ran 6 squads of neophytes with lasers with an alphus + patriarch + magus + iconward, along with carnifex + abberants/acolytes for a big hammer (2.5k 8e league). The neophytes with lasers were rock stars for me. Every game I won they stayed up for 3 turns and did good work over those turns. |
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Post by oetjens316 on Aug 7, 2020 18:55:07 GMT
Anyone considering allying in an auxiliary super heavy detachment with a Baneblade? Soak up attention while holding objectives. Also considering sentinels to scout forward and take early mid-table objectives. Opponent has to decide to focus down the Baneblade or go after garbage sentinels. Thoughts?
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Post by gorsameth on Aug 7, 2020 20:12:02 GMT
In a world where Knights still exist I just don't think a Baneblade is worth the points.
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Post by kazetanade on Aug 8, 2020 10:13:09 GMT
2x10 with 4 saws off top of my head is enough but not sure how u wanna use them. They're at least flexible if you can make them connect.
For the BC Neophyte Laser drop there is a critical mass required - for me that critical mass was 5 units for 10 shots total. Having the Kellermorph and Alphus helped make their shooting consistent enough, with 10 shots, and rerolls to wound from WLT when really needed, to kill any 1 high priority tank, with some extra shots to spare. After the drop, they'll shoot again next turn and have just enough damage to take out another tank.
With 6+18 shots, I have confidence to destroy an Impulsor if needed. (3 units Neophytes and 3x3 units Ridgerunners).
If running only 1x3, I'd say why bother? Same with BC Laser Neophytes.
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Post by hivemind03 on Aug 9, 2020 2:52:40 GMT
That is exactly how I want my GsC army to look like for the new edition. But the reality is like Kazetande says. Your taking a little bit of this and that, which in a game will translate to you doing a little of this and that. You'll almost kill a tank, almost wipe out a screen, almost hold onto an objective, and at the end of the game you'll be really far from winning. Thats been my experience with lists like this.
That said, if it works, definitely let me know because it really is what I want to work.
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Post by kazetanade on Aug 10, 2020 6:20:42 GMT
Nope, I think you're playing the list the way it's meant to be played. Only thing is obviously, no teleport homer, that's for tanky armies with DS.
IIRC, you can take Domination + Engage on all fronts, give that a try. Engage on All Fronts is a 10/15 objective, you wont max it but if you can score 10/15 for all 3 objectives you'll be ahead of your opponent most likely anyway.
Someone (one of the pro writers) mentioned Raise the Banner in a pod cast or article, which I'm only about 40% sold on.
How's the Demo Charges? Have they been useful yet? The fact that you need someone embarked to use it irks me quite a bit, but I guess it's more for that guaranteed explosion in people's faces. Imagine charging a unit of Aggressors with it and forcing them to smack it, then it explodes.
How's the bikes treating you? I still think bikes should be another unit of Ridgerunners. Everything else is already good to go.
Ref IG - IG dont do transport sits as well, due to the fact that their transports arent open topped (and hence cannot deliver the type of sweltering fire our army can). They do mass bodies way better, making use of 90 or 120 Guardsmen on the table as well as Tyranids do, which is something GSC cant really do. Having lost vigilus, a big chunk of IG fire power is now missing - their wyverns no longer double shoot, ignore cover, and have free ap. Their LRs can no longer move full and still double shoot. They no longer have a flat 3damage battle cannon. With -1 to hit baked into certain terrain, their fire power is really poor - a Manticore on average kills only 1-2 intercessors instead of the 4-5 that it rightfully should. Bullgryns are still really thick, no changes there.
If they've gone into mass Transports vs your mass Transports, its a winning matchup for you, because yours outputs better with similar durability (less cuz we're T6 4+ and theirs is T7 3+, but their guns are all in the LRs and possible artillery, yours are everywhere).
Special note - you can get outflanking Command Squads/Special Weapons squads for really cheap. 4+1 Commander for orders can be outflanked for 1cp. If they're going vehicles then you may not see this. The other thing I remember hearing might be a thing is loads of Hellhounds, which is obviously approach with caution.
Tempestus? Same old, no change. They can kill the 1 thing pretty scarily now, that's about it. tie them up with Neophytes or Acolytes or something.
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Post by gorsameth on Aug 10, 2020 9:49:14 GMT
Yeah Teleport homer needing to survive for an entire turn is just ugh for GSC.
I think Deploy Scramblers is a much superior choice if you don't have faith in Raise the Banners.
Its only 10 points yes but as Kazetanade mentioned, going 10/15 for all 3 secondaries appears to often be enough. And the action itself isn't to difficult to accomplish, especially with GSC's ability to deepstrike a unit in the opponent deployment zone.
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Post by hivemind03 on Aug 10, 2020 16:42:18 GMT
Got to try the list out against some Deathwatch Primaris. We used the Tournament Retrieval mission this time. I won 57/90 vs 47/90 with 45/45 Primary vs 35/45 and 17/45 vs 17/45. Maxing out Primaries the second game in is starting to reinforce my idea about those transports. Counting on 2 Objectives a turn should be baked into your list, squeezing out that Holding more the turn you spike if you want that 45. Linebreaker instead of Engage was ok, I think Engage is easier overall with GSC. More versatility for less resources. Teleport Homer was a botched choice again. Will avoid going forward. Minimal loses which I ended up 5/15 but looking back we both picked it and both had just barely 25% left so oops both times. Mark Of Omnissiah on Patriarch (Go to) Oppressor Bane on Keler Amulet on Sanctus Ridgerunner blob was MVP, that 5FNP and Raking/Overcharge/Priority target/Single minded combo is something else. Melted 10 Hellblasters, 1 Redemptor, 3 Reivers, an Aggressor, and 3 or 4 Intercessors. Having 2 options for BS3+ (Priority for Lasers, Raking for Stubbers) helped a lot. Notes: Sanctus flubbed his charge and met a grisly end, same with the Keler, and 1 Acolyte squad. The Locus camped objectives like a champ with 4++ giving some staying power behind those transports etc. Nice countercharge unit so far for cheap. Really missing that Gift from Beyond on Jackal. She did sweet %$#& all without it. The other Acolytes ate up a squad of Intercessors +1 Aggresor, with only the 4 Saws living after Auspex+Overwatch. 9th is a blast so far. Looking forward to Militarum next I think we figured. They are going to mimic my GSC transport concept and see what they can do. Probably Scions I would imagine with Taroxs being close to Trucks and Scions Deepstriking like our infantry. As always any critique? Thats good news. How did your ridgerunners accomplish so much? Even with all those buffs, melting 10 Hellblasters seems so unlikely. What am I missing? Did he just fail a lot of saves against the stubbers? And then he just had nothing in his army to fire back? I havent played against DW. |
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Post by hivemind03 on Aug 10, 2020 17:12:16 GMT
The Ridgerunners were basically using Raking Fire/Overcharged every turn, with the reroll to wound from Single Minded making even the stubbers chunk down 1 or 2 Primaris a turn. Transhuman was popped against them 1 time, landed 6/7 hits and all 6 were a 4+. They were deployed in a building so I was able to outrange them long enough to matter, while dealing with the Contemptor first. This list concept is at least so far proving useful. Capping Primaries is far from unoptimal, I just need to do better secondaries. PS: for anyone that thinks GSC doesn't have the tools is stuck in 8th. Our transport is one of the best in the game between 4 Autocannons and open topped dropping out those Lasers. Yes you can't use a 400 beatstick unit and go for overkill anymore, just play the mission. Don't attack or suicide anything just because. OK so it happened over more than one turn. I might give a similar list a go next weekend. I'll try to fit 5-6 ridgerunners or several trucks loaded up with Neophytes. I know for a fact that my regular opponent won't let 3 ridgerunners survive to shoot more than once. But i think 6 could do work. I also want to experiment with some Forces of the Hive Mind lists that aren't just Kronos + ridgerunners Edit: nevermind, the Alphus is dead to me... |
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Post by kazetanade on Aug 10, 2020 21:25:19 GMT
Alphus is NOT a lynchpin to the list when you run 9 of them. He helps a lot, but he's not lynchpin. However with the change to Look Out Sir, we're going to have to seriously re-consider how to play the Ridgerunner list and how to get them their Character Support, or if it's even still necessary.
It's probably a nudge towards playing Tyranids instead of GSC though tbh. The shooting components of Tyranids dont need weird conditions to make them work, and will output close enough the same (2 Ridgerunners is 2d3 which is average 4 shots of Mining Laser, compared to 12 shots from the Exocrene. 160 vs 175 or something like that, close enough that the comparison can be made in favour of the Exocrene).
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Post by gorsameth on Aug 10, 2020 21:29:06 GMT
A Ridgerunner list is likely also running trucks with Neophytes.
So you park a truck near your Ridgerunners and protect your Alphus that way. If they want to shoot the Truck and then your Alphas more power to them, it means they are not shooing Ridgerunners.
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Post by hivemind03 on Aug 10, 2020 22:44:41 GMT
You're right. for the kind of list I'm thinking, she just has to follow around a truck or two. Not really a big deal. I would think this is crippling for the 9 ridgerunner lists or those those tyranid lists that are taking an extra detachment just for ridgerunners.
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Post by hivemind03 on Aug 11, 2020 2:29:21 GMT
A Ridgerunner list is likely also running trucks with Neophytes. So you park a truck near your Ridgerunners and protect your Alphus that way. If they want to shoot the Truck and then your Alphas more power to them, it means they are not shooing Ridgerunners. It's almost like I knew how to do 9th before it hit. (To clarify I just got lucky building into transports to wrap up my Brigade, has nothing to do with foresight. I am an idiot.) Can't hide Jackal? Almost like those Trucks I keep praising are for a reason.. Hmm can't spam win anymore? Let's dump the faction. Or just realize that any spam mechanic will be erased and build a strong list without a crutch. I struggled especially later in the 8th season to even kill stuff, now that the castles have to play mobility and the scoring mechanic is end of Command, everyone else has to come to play. GSC is king of cat n mouse, and now they aren't forced to trade unfairly to keep in the game. I mean. I wouldn't get overly optimistic. But if its working for casual games, that's better than I expected. |
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Post by mjt2017 on Aug 18, 2020 17:40:38 GMT
Got to try the list out against some Deathwatch Primaris. We used the Tournament Retrieval mission this time. I won 57/90 vs 47/90 with 45/45 Primary vs 35/45 and 17/45 vs 17/45. Maxing out Primaries the second game in is starting to reinforce my idea about those transports. Counting on 2 Objectives a turn should be baked into your list, squeezing out that Holding more the turn you spike if you want that 45. Linebreaker instead of Engage was ok, I think Engage is easier overall with GSC. More versatility for less resources. Teleport Homer was a botched choice again. Will avoid going forward. Minimal loses which I ended up 5/15 but looking back we both picked it and both had just barely 25% left so oops both times. Mark Of Omnissiah on Patriarch (Go to) Oppressor Bane on Keler Amulet on Sanctus Ridgerunner blob was MVP, that 5FNP and Raking/Overcharge/Priority target/Single minded combo is something else. Melted 10 Hellblasters, 1 Redemptor, 3 Reivers, an Aggressor, and 3 or 4 Intercessors. Having 2 options for BS3+ (Priority for Lasers, Raking for Stubbers) helped a lot. Notes: Sanctus flubbed his charge and met a grisly end, same with the Keler, and 1 Acolyte squad. The Locus camped objectives like a champ with 4++ giving some staying power behind those transports etc. Nice countercharge unit so far for cheap. Really missing that Gift from Beyond on Jackal. She did sweet %$#& all without it. The other Acolytes ate up a squad of Intercessors +1 Aggresor, with only the 4 Saws living after Auspex+Overwatch. 9th is a blast so far. Looking forward to Militarum next I think we figured. They are going to mimic my GSC transport concept and see what they can do. Probably Scions I would imagine with Taroxs being close to Trucks and Scions Deepstriking like our infantry. As always any critique? Thats good news. How did your ridgerunners accomplish so much? Even with all those buffs, melting 10 Hellblasters seems so unlikely. What am I missing? Did he just fail a lot of saves against the stubbers? And then he just had nothing in his army to fire back? I havent played against DW.
Sorry for being a noob, but I have a query about the comment above "Ridgerunner blob was MVP, that 5FNP and Raking/Overcharge/Priority target/Single minded combo is something else." What is 'raking' and 'overcharge'? Also, single-minded - is that referring to the tyranid stratagem single-minded annihilation? If so, it can only be used on tyranids infantry right? So it can't be used on ridgerunners...
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Post by beetlejuice on Aug 18, 2020 18:44:49 GMT
Sorry for being a noob, but I have a query about the comment above "Ridgerunner blob was MVP, that 5FNP and Raking/Overcharge/Priority target/Single minded combo is something else." What is 'raking' and 'overcharge'? Also, single-minded - is that referring to the tyranid stratagem single-minded annihilation? If so, it can only be used on tyranids infantry right? So it can't be used on ridgerunners... It refers to stratagems from the psychic awakening book greater good: Raking fire that gives 1 ridgerunner unit +1 to hit and wound rolls for heavy stubbers, overcharged weaponry 1 CP for +1 to wound with heavy mining laser, and finally single minded obsession which is reroll wound rolls against one enemy unit for bladed cog units in an aura (bladed cog warlord trait). Most use hive cult warlord trait hivelord which gives reroll hits of 1 in 6” aura, since that one applies for all shooting phases against all targets and not just for deleting one enemy unit. You are correct that single minded annihilation from tyranids codex cannot be used on GSC units. |
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