Behemoth?

[N.I.B.]

Anyone had any success with Behemoth reserve builds? I'm looking for some change from my standard gunfex list.

[xtztxtxz]

Not had a chance to play with Behemoth yet, but something I'm really keen to try out is a Murderous Size Flyrant with Scythes of Tyran for S8, or Reaper of Obliterax for up to 9 damage per attack on 5+.

Trygon Primes with Murderous Size & Ymgarl Factor might be worth a shot too, the new strats combined with Behemoth trait makes them far more likely to charge from reserve (along with the stuff in their tunnel).

[brianb9999]

I really want to try it because of the +1 wound power, but I’m struggling to come up with a list that can put 2 units of stealers in reserve as well as 2 Flyrants. I’ve only got one Tyrannocyte, so putting in a trygon brings my total to over 1000 pts I want to keep in reserve. Curious to know what other people have come up with.

[bigpig]

I've tried a couple options. In fact, most of my focus has been on behemoth. The list I posted in the other thread (I can repost if you like) is the most successful one so far. They are good until you fail the daisy chain of combos to get the assault off...... then you lose. After my practice games behemoth is feeling like a "you do the combo or you lose hard" option. So many powerful choices that have failure points. Even the psychic power at WC7(!).

Behemoth hits hard and has some good options. Even the brute force strat on hormagaunts and gaunts can be amazing. The UH power is bonkers on stealers but it can be dicey.

The only thing I have not tried yet is stealers in reserve (pods or trygon). The lack of AG really makes them more dependent on chaining the strats together.

[mattblowers]

Jan 8, 2020 15:22:37 GMT bigpig said:

I've tried a couple options. In fact, most of my focus has been on behemoth. The list I posted in the other thread (I can repost if you like) is the most successful one so far. They are good until you fail the daisy chain of combos to get the assault off...... then you lose. After my practice games behemoth is feeling like a "you do the combo or you lose hard" option. So many powerful choices that have failure points. Even the psychic power at WC7(!).

Thanks! I won't even try then. Daisy chain or bust lists are a no go for me. Same with must go first lists. I at least want a chance to win a game that isn't entirely determined by dice.

[bigpig]

Jan 8, 2020 15:29:02 GMT mattblowers said:

Jan 8, 2020 15:22:37 GMT bigpig said:

I've tried a couple options. In fact, most of my focus has been on behemoth. The list I posted in the other thread (I can repost if you like) is the most successful one so far. They are good until you fail the daisy chain of combos to get the assault off...... then you lose. After my practice games behemoth is feeling like a "you do the combo or you lose hard" option. So many powerful choices that have failure points. Even the psychic power at WC7(!).

Thanks! I won't even try then. Daisy chain or bust lists are a no go for me. Same with must go first lists. I at least want a chance to win a game that isn't entirely determined by dice.

Sadly I can't help but feel that most of what we can bring is "must go first or lose" vs a competent space marine list with a good player at the helm.

[mattblowers]

Jan 8, 2020 15:31:07 GMT bigpig said:

Jan 8, 2020 15:29:02 GMT mattblowers said:

Thanks! I won't even try then. Daisy chain or bust lists are a no go for me. Same with must go first lists. I at least want a chance to win a game that isn't entirely determined by dice.

Sadly I can't help but feel that most of what we can bring is "must go first or lose" vs a competent space marine list with a good player at the helm.

That's fair, but I don't want a list that auto loses to other armies if you don't go first. SM are kinda an outlier in that respect. You have to get lucky to beat SM. I also hate to rely on the psychic phase. You will have a horrible psychic phase in at least 1 game in 5 game tournament that will lose you the game if your opponent is competent.

[bigpig]

Jan 8, 2020 15:34:01 GMT mattblowers said:

Jan 8, 2020 15:31:07 GMT bigpig said:

Sadly I can't help but feel that most of what we can bring is "must go first or lose" vs a competent space marine list with a good player at the helm.

That's fair, but I don't want a list that auto loses to other armies if you don't go first. SM are kinda an outlier in that respect. You have to get lucky to beat SM. I also hate to rely on the psychic phase. You will have a horrible psychic phase in at least 1 game in 5 game tournament that will lose you the game if your opponent is competent.

Yup, fair point. That is why I've pretty much abandoned DS behemoth, but am having some enjoyment with slingshot behemoth. the reroll charge actually makes it MORE reliable and when UHunger and Brute Force do work they push you over the top. UHunger also addresses our issue with vehicles.

[N.I.B.]

Jan 8, 2020 15:22:37 GMT bigpig said:

I've tried a couple options. In fact, most of my focus has been on behemoth. The list I posted in the other thread (I can repost if you like) is the most successful one so far. They are good until you fail the daisy chain of combos to get the assault off...... then you lose. After my practice games behemoth is feeling like a "you do the combo or you lose hard" option. So many powerful choices that have failure points. Even the psychic power at WC7(!).

Behemoth hits hard and has some good options. Even the brute force strat on hormagaunts and gaunts can be amazing. The UH power is bonkers on stealers but it can be dicey.

The only thing I have not tried yet is stealers in reserve (pods or trygon). The lack of AG really makes them more dependent on chaining the strats together.

You mean this?

Behemoth Deep Strike Fun list to try out the 3d6 stuff


Behemoth battallion
Hive Tyrant: Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Power: Unstoppable Hunger, The Reaper of Obilterax, Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots, Wings
Neurothrope

26x Hormagaunt, Adrenal Glands
26x Hormagaunt, Adrenal Glands
10x Termagant

25 Gargoyles

Trygon Prime, Adrenal Glands, Arachnacyte Gland

-------------------------------

Kronos battallion
Neurothrope
Neurothrope

3 Ripper Swarms
3 Ripper Swarms
3 Ripper Swarms

6 Hive Guard

------------------------------

Supreme Command Detachment +1CP

Broodlord
Hive Tyrant: Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Rending Claws
Hive Tyrant: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

1981pts


Supreme Command give the broodlord Gorgon for the psychic power until they do or don't fix it

Your Supreme Command is Gorgon? IIRC nids can't do mixed battallions.

Can you explain the assault daisy chain going on here? Can't be arsed to think for meself ^^

[zimko]

I'm having a good time with a base list of 40 genestealers, broodlord, swarmlord and flyrant in behemoth (with a detachment of kronos to support). The Flyrant with Murderous Size and Scythes of Tyran has kicked some serious butt. With Toxin Sacs, reroll to wound and sometimes +1 to wound he easily one shots repulsors and knights. The Swarmlord and Behemoth makes a charge reliable. He also has a HVC and, depending on matchup, will use Venomthorn Parasite whenever S7 is good enough and I want a little extra kick from ranged before committing to melee. The Broodlord gets Res Orb and UHunger to make the cast more reliable. Genestealers with +1 to hit and +1 to wound makes them much more reliable too.

I will say though that my recent success with this list may be related to my local meta. I live near NOVA and all the local shops use NOVA Ls in their tournaments, which are large enough to block line of sight for Flyrants and Swarmlord. But this isn't a small pond so we'll see how I do in tournaments the next couple of months.

[zimko]

My list for reference:

Behemoth Battalion
The Swarmlord
Flyrant with HVC, MST, TS, AG, Murderous Size and option of Scythes of Tyran or Venomthorn Parasite
Broodlord with Resonance Barb (Unstoppable Hunger bot)

19 Genestealers
19 Genestealers
3 Ripper Swarms

Kronos Battalion
Flyrant with 4 Devourers and Pathogenesis (option of Voracious Ammunition)
Neurothrope with Symbiostorm (Warlord)

3 Ripper Swarms
3 Ripper Swarms
10 Termagants

6 Hive Guard (option of +1 cover or ignore AP 1/2)

3 Biovores
3 Biovores

This list has the added bonus of making secondaries difficult for ITC. Fewer than 80 models so no maxing Reaper. No maxing BGH. Gang Busters is an obvious choice but all the targets ignore LOS so maybe not the easiest to achieve. Headhunter is an option but pretty resilient characters.

[No One]

There's a couple of different ways to do it, but it basically means getting a Synapse in to enable 3d6 drop lowest charges. And to get the first one, you either need on board charger, or get lucky with other 3d6 drop lowest from reserve (charge a unit you kill a model from, or relic AG).

Anyway, had a bit of a test game with Behemoth DS stuff. It went poorly. I won, handily, but that was more to do with the fact that I killed his scoring and was scoring, while warriors and rippers hostaged his tanks and scored. The flyrant's showed up, one passed with AG and 3d6 for killing (which he could've pulled casualties to deny me the charge entirely, so...not a good start there). Just charged guardsmen, because I wanted to tag 2 russes instead of trying to just kill 1 (with another 4, it wouldn't matter unless I lived), so the other failed its charge since I didn't want to pull it in. Then one died horribly and the other got knocked down to 4 wounds from 2 tank commanders+pask.

I dunno: it feels like they don't have reliable enough impact on the drop (problems with target, charge reliability and damage), and aren't survivable enough to use DS as a stage to take more favourable engagements and just bully backlines or whatever with 16" Fly+smite etc.

zimko said:

I live near NOVA and all the local shops use NOVA Ls in their tournaments, which are large enough to block line of sight for Flyrants and Swarmlord.

Being able to reliably block LoS to flyrants would make a massive difference, yes.

[kazetanade]

No One 3 Flyrants was a purported "tool" we could use vs Castellans. I doubt they can't handle some lehmann russes. If you didn't want them to kill it, you could smack with teeth instead.

3 is the handle for Tripoint. I think them surviving their first drop, even at the cost of less damage, is a worthwhile trade, unless its all FLY in which case gotta kill as hard as possible. Once on the 2nd turn on the board they really run havoc.

I'm really mad about the no names character for adaptation - now we don't have good tools for dealing with Centurions, since we don't have any other 6+A 4D potential platforms. In thinking whether a Genestealer squad becomes mandatory because of this, but I hate their charge potential out of DS... Unless we an get a 4d6 discard lowest 2 I guess. And I also hate how you'll need Toxin Sacs and UH to go off to kill the Cents. 80A, 55 hits or so, 18 wounds without UH, 8 + 3 for 11 damage, doesn't even kill 3 Cents without TS and UH.

So Exocrenes and l Genestealers perform on parr for killing Cents. We don't seem to have anything that's particularly effective at it...

[N.I.B.]

Jan 8, 2020 16:14:45 GMT zimko said:

My list for reference:

Behemoth Battalion
The Swarmlord
Flyrant with HVC, MST, TS, AG, Murderous Size and option of Scythes of Tyran or Venomthorn Parasite
Broodlord with Resonance Barb (Unstoppable Hunger bot)

19 Genestealers
19 Genestealers
3 Ripper Swarms

Kronos Battalion
Flyrant with 4 Devourers and Pathogenesis (option of Voracious Ammunition)
Neurothrope with Symbiostorm (Warlord)

3 Ripper Swarms
3 Ripper Swarms
10 Termagants

6 Hive Guard (option of +1 cover or ignore AP 1/2)

3 Biovores
3 Biovores

This list has the added bonus of making secondaries difficult for ITC. Fewer than 80 models so no maxing Reaper. No maxing BGH. Gang Busters is an obvious choice but all the targets ignore LOS so maybe not the easiest to achieve. Headhunter is an option but pretty resilient characters.

I like the list, looks fun. But it's 2003pts?

[zimko]

Jan 8, 2020 21:46:35 GMT N.I.B. said:

Jan 8, 2020 16:14:45 GMT zimko said:

My list for reference:

Behemoth Battalion
The Swarmlord
Flyrant with HVC, MST, TS, AG, Murderous Size and option of Scythes of Tyran or Venomthorn Parasite
Broodlord with Resonance Barb (Unstoppable Hunger bot)

19 Genestealers
19 Genestealers
3 Ripper Swarms

Kronos Battalion
Flyrant with 4 Devourers and Pathogenesis (option of Voracious Ammunition)
Neurothrope with Symbiostorm (Warlord)

3 Ripper Swarms
3 Ripper Swarms
10 Termagants

6 Hive Guard (option of +1 cover or ignore AP 1/2)

3 Biovores
3 Biovores

This list has the added bonus of making secondaries difficult for ITC. Fewer than 80 models so no maxing Reaper. No maxing BGH. Gang Busters is an obvious choice but all the targets ignore LOS so maybe not the easiest to achieve. Headhunter is an option but pretty resilient characters.

I like the list, looks fun. But it's 2003pts?

I have 1998. Did you change the 2xMST to 1xMST on the Flyrant on battlescribe? It defaults to 2x which is 5 extra points.