Thoughts after first month of BoB

[mule]

You need a hug bud?

[dandc]

I can see what a shooty BoB army looks like, but a melee BoB? Kraken Stealers, Hormogaunts, Swarmie and Broodlords with Build a Bear detachment of Flyrants, Mawlocs and Haruspexes?

[mattblowers]

Dec 28, 2019 23:27:16 GMT dandc said:

I can see what a shooty BoB army looks like, but a melee BoB? Kraken Stealers, Hormogaunts, Swarmie and Broodlords with Build a Bear detachment of Flyrants, Mawlocs and Haruspexes?

I’m not sure anyone has found the magic sauce for melee nids yet. I’m not sure there is one. Lists are so potent now I can’t get them there without getting so far behind in points that it’s game over.

[purestrain]

Dec 28, 2019 23:27:16 GMT dandc said:

I can see what a shooty BoB army looks like, but a melee BoB? Kraken Stealers, Hormogaunts, Swarmie and Broodlords with Build a Bear detachment of Flyrants, Mawlocs and Haruspexes?

Im not so sure kraken is needed for stealers, as if you dont go first and they have a TFC, you arent going anywhere even with the triple d6 double advance.

Swarmy sling in a Build a Bug of Pack Hunters and Spawns of the outer dark for pure damage input through survival and raw stat increase (4+++ vs overwatch and ap-2 claws/-1 talons)

Worthy mention of this with stealers are the 5 that have Acid maw biomorphs going to ap-4 static.

Horms sit at ap-1, 1cp for ap-2.

If you dont think overwatch is a big issue in your meta, replace spawns of the out dark with Hypermetabolic Acceleration.

[vandalex]

Dec 26, 2019 22:56:24 GMT hiveoverall said:

I used to think like your guys until I had like 5 games with Blood of Baal, but then I realised that a small detachment with master artisan and reroll one psychic test is quite good. Also some of our stuff is too strong to be nativ abilities, while other should be instead of strat, that I agree. Maleceptor is too strong for 0 cp guys, come on...

I think we can compete with anything non marine, so I d say that is a pretty good mark. No one wants more marine level stuff, that would just end the game. And perhaps they will launch a balance faq to nerf marines soon, which will put us in a good place.

Honestly our stuff is str9nger than it looks. Exocrine kronos is good yes but easy to kill for some armies. But Kronos warriors with prime and doubles shoot strat are really good too and I read no one here giving any feedback one them. 3*9 warriors will ensure maximum use of the kronos ou power for both hordes clearing and antitank (venom canons).

You guys are waaaay too negative imho. Unless you really do face IH and Ravenguard all the time (I really can win at all against decent player with these 2 types of marine scums). In that case yes we are underpowered, and totally screwed. IMO we can deal with other marines though.

Kronos Warriors with symbiostorm and double tap is awesome. I would pod them for the best result. The sheer number of shots is effective against marines, and incredible against horde. Its also good at removing a decent portion of drones. 

[bolzor]

Dec 28, 2019 23:53:18 GMT mattblowers said:

Dec 28, 2019 23:27:16 GMT dandc said:

I can see what a shooty BoB army looks like, but a melee BoB? Kraken Stealers, Hormogaunts, Swarmie and Broodlords with Build a Bear detachment of Flyrants, Mawlocs and Haruspexes?

I’m not sure anyone has found the magic sauce for melee nids yet. I’m not sure there is one. Lists are so potent now I can’t get them there without getting so far behind in points that it’s game over.

Its an edition where CC has to fight through too many filters to be employed. Marching across a table is a death sentence with how efficiently armies can lay down firepower and we dont get many good options for mitigating it. I believe the new BoB stuff makes our beta strike deadlier than ever. Lots of harassment and ways to improve those charges coming out of reserve. Its not the classic vision of waves of Nids pouring across the hellscape, but its something.

[xtztxtxz]

Dec 29, 2019 13:32:51 GMT vandalex said:

Kronos Warriors with symbiostorm and double tap is awesome. I would pod them for the best result. The sheer number of shots is effective against marines, and incredible against horde. Its also good at removing a decent portion of drones. 

The only issue with that is it gets expensive to bring a Warrior Prime along, and Symbiostorm really needs one to get the most from the power. Only Jormungandr can deep strike them cheaply.

I really wish they'd fix Tyrannocytes to work like regular transports rather than only allowing a single unit.

[kazetanade]

Dec 29, 2019 15:05:27 GMT xtztxtxz said:

Dec 29, 2019 13:32:51 GMT vandalex said:

Kronos Warriors with symbiostorm and double tap is awesome. I would pod them for the best result. The sheer number of shots is effective against marines, and incredible against horde. Its also good at removing a decent portion of drones. 

The only issue with that is it gets expensive to bring a Warrior Prime along, and Symbiostorm really needs one to get the most from the power. Only Jormungandr can deep strike them cheaply.

I really wish they'd fix Tyrannocytes to work like regular transports rather than only allowing a single unit.

I'd been thinking about it, but most every transport is considered at taking 1W guys, and has provisions for taking the bigger stuff. Marines can't carry Primaris for eg. Bullgryns take 3 spots for 3W.

By that measure, the pod functions pretty much how other transports do - the only difference is that we can't stuff characters into it. But we can carry MCs instead, I don't think any other std transport in the game does that.

I feel like if we made big changes to the Pod, we'd start having issues with some other units. For eg, the Trygon loses its unique thing about creating tunnels for other creatures. The Jorm strategem for ferrying becomes a big question mark. So unless you change those 2 there's not much you can do for the Tacytw really.

[mattblowers]

Dec 29, 2019 15:31:24 GMT kazetanade said:

Dec 29, 2019 15:05:27 GMT xtztxtxz said:

The only issue with that is it gets expensive to bring a Warrior Prime along, and Symbiostorm really needs one to get the most from the power. Only Jormungandr can deep strike them cheaply.

I really wish they'd fix Tyrannocytes to work like regular transports rather than only allowing a single unit.

I'd been thinking about it, but most every transport is considered at taking 1W guys, and has provisions for taking the bigger stuff. Marines can't carry Primaris for eg. Bullgryns take 3 spots for 3W.

By that measure, the pod functions pretty much how other transports do - the only difference is that we can't stuff characters into it. But we can carry MCs instead, I don't think any other std transport in the game does that.

I feel like if we made big changes to the Pod, we'd start having issues with some other units. For eg, the Trygon loses its unique thing about creating tunnels for other creatures. The Jorm strategem for ferrying becomes a big question mark. So unless you change those 2 there's not much you can do for the Tacytw really.

I find the t-cute really good especially for the points. I’ve had two with BS in every list. They muck up LOS, block movement and put out decent firepower. They are almost worth taking without transport capacity.

[N.I.B.]

Dec 29, 2019 13:32:51 GMT vandalex said:

Kronos Warriors with symbiostorm and double tap is awesome. I would pod them for the best result. The sheer number of shots is effective against marines, and incredible against horde. Its also good at removing a decent portion of drones. 

Why would I Symbiostorm Warriors instead of Hive Guards or an Exocrine, unless I'm facing hordes?
Podded Kronos Warriors as mentioned need a Prime in the right place, plus a Kronos Psyker within 12", which limits the play. Suddenly that's a good chunk of your army.

[bolzor]

Dec 29, 2019 17:52:21 GMT N.I.B. said:

Dec 29, 2019 13:32:51 GMT vandalex said:

Kronos Warriors with symbiostorm and double tap is awesome. I would pod them for the best result. The sheer number of shots is effective against marines, and incredible against horde. Its also good at removing a decent portion of drones. 

Why would I Symbiostorm Warriors instead of Hive Guards or an Exocrine, unless I'm facing hordes?
Podded Kronos Warriors as mentioned need a Prime in the right place, plus a Kronos Psyker within 12", which limits the play. Suddenly that's a good chunk of your army.

I dont think it has to be an either/or situation. The warrior unit is just another great target for Symbiostorm and combos well with the Prime bonus for more exploding hits. Besides, if the Hive Guard or Exocrine is prioritized/damaged/has to move then the warriors may offer a good backup fuscillade of firepower. It combos well even if it isn't our most mathematically optimal choice.

I agree that I wouldn't pod them in, though, since it would take resources to pull off that particular strat.

[drrickmarshall]

Dec 26, 2019 17:14:57 GMT mattblowers said:

Here are some of my general thoughts/impressions after about a month and more than a few games under my belt.*

Overall I think that this release gives us some neat things to play with. I'm still not convinced it's enough, but it is a start.

The bad:
-hierodules are still bad
-t-fexes are still bad; both the acid spray and rupture cannon options have underwhelmed for me. I've tried them with the 5++ invul/count as double wounds for degradation and while they survived well, they still didn't punch hard enough.
-toxicrenes are still bad. Prey site helps, but they just don't get there fast enough and they tend to block each other out. Thunderfire cannon tremor shells just make them a non-factor.
-I find the malenthrope too expensive for what he brings. He can't keep up with a good melee list. His bubble is too small for the waterfalling exocrine list. Probably only works in a gaunt carpet list and I can't bring myself to play that. 250+ gribblies sounds like no fun to play with or against.

the good:
-resonance barb is awesome and should be in every list
-Kronos power is great (doubly so on exocrines)
-exocrine strat makes the exocrine great.
-biovore is priced right
-+8" on quad-dev kronos flyrant is fantastic
-adaptations are really good, they have more widespread use than our meh warlord traits

General observations/tactics:
-mixing melee centric and gunline hasn't worked out for me. I feel that you have to go hard one way or the other
-Kraken and Kronos are still better than most build your own hive fleet combos you can come up with. I haven't tried carnifex rush so there might be something there. A warrior bomb also might have some play.
-I love playing 3 exocrines. I start 1 on the table and 2 podded in with t-cytes. The one on the table advances forward then I use the strat to count as having not moved. On turn 2 I pod in the second one and pop the strat. On turn 3 I rinse and repeat. This gives a hard shooting presence that is right where it needs to be your first 3 turns. With kronos power up and rerolling 1s, kronos exocrines might just be some of your best options ever. I take barbed stranglers on the t-cytes and they do work as well. With these popping up, most people ignore the double dev flyrant because of how hard it is to kill.
-kraken stealers are still our best melee unit with Swarmlord sling and broodlords. They don't seem to mix well with exocrines for me as it changes the focus of the list.


*These thoughts are based solely on ITC format games on the new standardized terrain.

malanthropes are always an auto take for the -1 just helps my stuff sty alive turn one and anything after that is just extra, i usually bring a malan and three venoms each ins seperate detachements kraken and kronos because the aura is (hive fleet) specific. hte -1 is crucial for me. if you dont need it good on you but playing against all these shooty armies its a must for me.

[dranzyl]

I thought dreadnaughts could ride drop pods too, or was that an older edition thing?

Do imperial guard even have drop pods?

Lets hope GW fixes that sillyness of allowing only single units to ride them eventually.

[gigasnail]

Dreads can ride in pods and storm ravens.

[nidzy]

Dec 30, 2019 0:40:25 GMT gigasnail said:

Dreads can ride in pods and storm ravens.

Codex SM pods can't carry dreads, they only take infantry that is not primaris, jump pack, terminator or cent.

There is still a FW dreadnought pod IIRC but prob not worth it.