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Post by bolzor on Dec 17, 2019 3:36:43 GMT
Three walking Hive Tyrants and Swarmlord backed closely by 3 Min Squads of Tyrant Guard. Hive Fleet "Your Dudes" with Metamorphic Regrowth and Synaptic Augmentation. Proceed to pass off any wounds suffered by Tyrants front liners to rear guard squads, selecting to alternate giving 2 ablative wounds to each squad before jumping to the next.
Laugh maniacally as they all regenerate 1 wound per turn. Laugh harder as opponent is forced to switch target priority to Tyrant Guard and sigh at your trash tier list building.
In seriousness... I still don't know what Tyrant Guard are for. I thought that maybe there was a spark of hope in Metamorphic Regrowth, wound dispersal as 'target deterrent', and their tougher stat lines but they cost 35 gosh dern points. They aren't THAT tough and the ability to take wounds isn't that good. If they were handing out points cuts and trying to make things viable I'm a little perplexed that these went completely untouched. If I had my druthers, I think I would hand these guys a 5+ FnP buff while within Shieldwall range of their papa Tyrants. It would have even been REALLY cool if that Warrior damage reduction Stratagem could also work with Tyrant Guard.
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 17, 2019 7:17:05 GMT
Not as bad as it sounds.
Run 2 units of 6 Guards, or 1 unit alone will suffice. Pop them 5+++ and ignore -1/-2ap adaptation.
Run your Hive Fleet. Allow each Flyrant to take 1 failed save each. Pass the excess failed save wounds off to the TG.
Sit the 4 Tyrants in LOS midfield, infront of a ruin wall. Sit the TG behind the wall out of LOS.
Let each Tyrant carry a cannon to reroll something for. Watch people swear as you proceed to tank 70% of an army's shooting without losing a single unit. Next turn you regen 1 wound each, which translates to 33% to 45% damage reversal.
They then proceed to charge you where you smile as you hack them into pieces with 4 close combat weapons...
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Post by 1b2a on Dec 17, 2019 8:19:30 GMT
Wouldn't a more realistic scenario be they kill the unit of guard by shooting 2 or all of your tyrants dead T1?
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 17, 2019 9:09:31 GMT
Wouldn't a more realistic scenario be they kill the unit of guard by shooting 2 or all of your tyrants dead T1? Depends what they're shooting them with, but it's next to impossible to kill a Swarmlord with 6 TGs taking wounds for him during the Knight meta, with so many marines now it's definitely impossible with the gun load out that people bring to the table. T7 4++ is a really tough chassis to chew through. If you're tanking Executioners for eg, you're looking at 4 shots 3+/2+ rr1s (I assume all hit) 3+ rr1s (3 wounds) 4++ (I assume 2 fails) for 7d average. 2 Executioners will kill 4.5 guards, on the better (but not best) skew. In the worst case of max damage an Exec will kill 4 TG itself, without catalyst, hence 2 will kill the unit, but only deal 6W to one Tyrant. |
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Post by sneggy on Dec 17, 2019 11:51:14 GMT
Wouldn't a more realistic scenario be they kill the unit of guard by shooting 2 or all of your tyrants dead T1? Depends what they're shooting them with, but it's next to impossible to kill a Swarmlord with 6 TGs taking wounds for him during the Knight meta, with so many marines now it's definitely impossible with the gun load out that people bring to the table. T7 4++ is a really tough chassis to chew through. If you're tanking Executioners for eg, you're looking at 4 shots 3+/2+ rr1s (I assume all hit) 3+ rr1s (3 wounds) 4++ (I assume 2 fails) for 7d average. 2 Executioners will kill 4.5 guards, on the better (but not best) skew. In the worst case of max damage an Exec will kill 4 TG itself, without catalyst, hence 2 will kill the unit, but only deal 6W to one Tyrant. Or 3 stormtalons and maybe a thunderfire or two kill all your tyrant guard then the stormhawks rip a flyrant or two apart...... |
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Post by No One on Dec 17, 2019 12:43:06 GMT
With ignore -1/-2, stormtalons/TFC aren't actually that threatening: not harmless by any means, but they're not killing the squad unless they're running typhoon and roll well (and even then, if you've got cover you're probably fine).
Still die unless you've got good terrain, and it ultimately just feels like worse Tau...
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Post by xsquidz on Dec 17, 2019 13:03:00 GMT
With ignore -1/-2, stormtalons/TFC aren't actually that threatening: not harmless by any means, but they're not killing the squad unless they're running typhoon and roll well (and even then, if you've got cover you're probably fine). Still die unless you've got good terrain, and it ultimately just feels like worse Tau... Plus malenthrope so -1 to hit them and then maleceptor for -1 S (which doesn't help them a ton at T5 already-but good vs firewarriors and a few things I am sure). It really does start to add up. Make sure the malenthrope can't be sniped by a flyer and then if they focus on the maleceptor its just as tough as the hive tyrant or swarmlord EXACTLY so its going to take some work to kill it and if they do, thats alot of firepower that didn't go after the tyrant guard or other stuff. If they would it and don't kill it, it regens 1 wound as well. The nid strat to heal D3 works on anything as well, so even a tyrant guard if you really wanted to but for 2 CP its costly. |
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Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 17, 2019 13:51:24 GMT
Still too much investment just to get 4 walkrants across the table.
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Post by xsquidz on Dec 17, 2019 14:22:29 GMT
Still too much investment just to get 4 walkrants across the table. if 4 walkrants all survive and make it across the table they will start to murder everything and you win? Or am I missing something? I used to play tons of nidzilla and did really well with them, the issue was if you went 2nd and too much stuff died and now I don't think that is as much of a factor anymore, still going to lose something, but it should be less! Not saying nidzilla or any nid army is top tier now but at least it should be a decent fun option. |
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Post by No One on Dec 17, 2019 14:26:00 GMT
Eh, I don't see walkrants having the mobility or the damage to be threatening enough, fast enough, to matter. To say nothing of this sort of requiring terrain to hide the TG, or else they just get blown up by the anti-tank guns instead of the walkrants with the 4++.
Like, it's more viable than before, but that doesn't make it good.
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Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 17, 2019 14:30:31 GMT
Still too much investment just to get 4 walkrants across the table. if 4 walkrants all survive and make it across the table they will start to murder everything and you win? Or am I missing something? I used to play tons of nidzilla and did really well with them, the issue was if you went 2nd and too much stuff died and now I don't think that is as much of a factor anymore, still going to lose something, but it should be less! Not saying nidzilla or any nid army is top tier now but at least it should be a decent fun option. They literally have 4 attacks each with str 6. What are they going to murder exactly? A random smash captain costing a good 60% less points goes up to like 5-6 attacks, str 8 and flat 3 damage, and also they get to fly while they do that AND they get to hide behind their units. |
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Post by xsquidz on Dec 17, 2019 14:40:54 GMT
if 4 walkrants all survive and make it across the table they will start to murder everything and you win? Or am I missing something? I used to play tons of nidzilla and did really well with them, the issue was if you went 2nd and too much stuff died and now I don't think that is as much of a factor anymore, still going to lose something, but it should be less! Not saying nidzilla or any nid army is top tier now but at least it should be a decent fun option. They literally have 4 attacks each with str 6. What are they going to murder exactly? A random smash captain costing a good 60% less points goes up to like 5-6 attacks, str 8 and flat 3 damage, and also they get to fly while they do that AND they get to hide behind their units. Don't forget they have smite and a gun as well as that CC ability. They are a jack of all trades, master of none. But you also have the swarmlord and if it lives and makes it across the board or OOE, they will kill pretty much anything. Especially with the strat for 1 CP to re-roll wounds and then fight again for 3 or if they die, fight for 2 CP. OOE should kill a knight in one turn by attacking twice. |
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Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 17, 2019 14:43:55 GMT
They literally have 4 attacks each with str 6. What are they going to murder exactly? A random smash captain costing a good 60% less points goes up to like 5-6 attacks, str 8 and flat 3 damage, and also they get to fly while they do that AND they get to hide behind their units. Don't forget they have smite and a gun as well as that CC ability. They are a jack of all trades, master of none. But you also have the swarmlord and if it lives and makes it across the board or OOE, they will kill pretty much anything. Especially with the strat for 1 CP to re-roll wounds and then fight again for 3 or if they die, fight for 2 CP. OOE should kill a knight in one turn by attacking twice. Pretty sure OOE doesn't kill a Knight in one turn even by attacking twice, but we have other stuff to soften him up (really love HVC lately) and besides a knight isn't even the most threatening thing for Tyranids. But I am really really dissapointed with the Hive Tyrant damage output and cost honestly. |
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Post by xsquidz on Dec 17, 2019 15:02:27 GMT
Don't forget they have smite and a gun as well as that CC ability. They are a jack of all trades, master of none. But you also have the swarmlord and if it lives and makes it across the board or OOE, they will kill pretty much anything. Especially with the strat for 1 CP to re-roll wounds and then fight again for 3 or if they die, fight for 2 CP. OOE should kill a knight in one turn by attacking twice. Pretty sure OOE doesn't kill a Knight in one turn even by attacking twice, but we have other stuff to soften him up (really love HVC lately) and besides a knight isn't even the most threatening thing for Tyranids. But I am really really dissapointed with the Hive Tyrant damage output and cost honestly. Hive tyrants are too expensive for sure now, you are right about that! I ran 7 for one event (before rule of 3) and went 5-0 with a perfect 100-0 score lol. Then like a week later they went up in points and rule of 3. I didn't even want to take 7, it was a team event, I owned 4, borrowed 3 from a teammate, it was so dumb and unfun to play. At that time they needed the points increase. What GW doesn't take into account enough is how armies and things around units change, tyrants even at the points increase were still great for a while, now so much other stuff (like marines) are SO good, they need to come back down, that is for sure. OOE does about 25 wounds on average to a knight with 2 rounds of attacking, they have 24 wounds so it is close, but smite the knight 1-2 times first if you want to be sure! His MW on the charge might even be enough if you get the 4+. Use the re-roll to wound strat on him for 1 CP. 5 attacks hitting on 2's (on the charge-even with the -1 from his weapon), proc extra hits on 5+ (he gets +2 to hit and -1 from weapon), CP if you roll a one, sure you can flub but I am always dealing with averages. Then if he attacks back and kills you, spend 2 CP and do it again and since he doesn't have brackets he still attacks at full capacity and the knight should die, if he attacks something else or somehow flubs on you, spend 3 CP and fight again. No way for them to stop him from attacking twice really. Unless my mathhammer is wrong, each round of attacks he does 12.35 wounds to a knight. |
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Post by purestrain on Dec 17, 2019 16:03:46 GMT
Pretty sure OOE doesn't kill a Knight in one turn even by attacking twice, but we have other stuff to soften him up (really love HVC lately) and besides a knight isn't even the most threatening thing for Tyranids. But I am really really dissapointed with the Hive Tyrant damage output and cost honestly. Hive tyrants are too expensive for sure now, you are right about that! I ran 7 for one event (before rule of 3) and went 5-0 with a perfect 100-0 score lol. Then like a week later they went up in points and rule of 3. I didn't even want to take 7, it was a team event, I owned 4, borrowed 3 from a teammate, it was so dumb and unfun to play. At that time they needed the points increase. What GW doesn't take into account enough is how armies and things around units change, tyrants even at the points increase were still great for a while, now so much other stuff (like marines) are SO good, they need to come back down, that is for sure. OOE does about 25 wounds on average to a knight with 2 rounds of attacking, they have 24 wounds so it is close, but smite the knight 1-2 times first if you want to be sure! His MW on the charge might even be enough if you get the 4+. Use the re-roll to wound strat on him for 1 CP. 5 attacks hitting on 2's (on the charge-even with the -1 from his weapon), proc extra hits on 5+ (he gets +2 to hit and -1 from weapon), CP if you roll a one, sure you can flub but I am always dealing with averages. Then if he attacks back and kills you, spend 2 CP and do it again and since he doesn't have brackets he still attacks at full capacity and the knight should die, if he attacks something else or somehow flubs on you, spend 3 CP and fight again. No way for them to stop him from attacking twice really. Unless my mathhammer is wrong, each round of attacks he does 12.35 wounds to a knight. Custom Hive fleet with +1hit on the charge and Bio metalic-cysts. OOE Hitting on 2+ with exploding 3s at str7 ap-4 (str8 ap-5 if you give him murderous size and 4dmg) 3dmg will nearly if not flatten a Castellan in 1 round of combat, let alone two. |
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