|
|
Post by xsquidz on Dec 17, 2019 16:09:48 GMT
Hive tyrants are too expensive for sure now, you are right about that! I ran 7 for one event (before rule of 3) and went 5-0 with a perfect 100-0 score lol. Then like a week later they went up in points and rule of 3. I didn't even want to take 7, it was a team event, I owned 4, borrowed 3 from a teammate, it was so dumb and unfun to play. At that time they needed the points increase. What GW doesn't take into account enough is how armies and things around units change, tyrants even at the points increase were still great for a while, now so much other stuff (like marines) are SO good, they need to come back down, that is for sure. OOE does about 25 wounds on average to a knight with 2 rounds of attacking, they have 24 wounds so it is close, but smite the knight 1-2 times first if you want to be sure! His MW on the charge might even be enough if you get the 4+. Use the re-roll to wound strat on him for 1 CP. 5 attacks hitting on 2's (on the charge-even with the -1 from his weapon), proc extra hits on 5+ (he gets +2 to hit and -1 from weapon), CP if you roll a one, sure you can flub but I am always dealing with averages. Then if he attacks back and kills you, spend 2 CP and do it again and since he doesn't have brackets he still attacks at full capacity and the knight should die, if he attacks something else or somehow flubs on you, spend 3 CP and fight again. No way for them to stop him from attacking twice really. Unless my mathhammer is wrong, each round of attacks he does 12.35 wounds to a knight. Custom Hive fleet with +1hit on the charge and Bio metalic-cysts. OOE Hitting on 2+ with exploding 3s at str7 ap-4 (str8 ap-5 if you give him murderous size and 4dmg) 3dmg will nearly if not flatten a Castellan in 1 round of combat, let alone two. Yeah and you could take murderous size on a swarmlord as well, use the strat for re-roll to wound as well. He is more likely to survive the counter attack (especially if you bracket the knight once or twice) since he has a 3++ and then you can fight again if needed as well. People are always so down on nids and new stuff and while I agree this book is not a meta changer is gives us some nice options and I think can make nids "fairly" competitive. I still think GSC with some nid allies is the way to go. This MW shenanigans could be nice, take the custome hive fleet for +1 to hit and heal a wound, you don't even need bio metalic-cysts if you take murderous size! |
|
|
|
Post by mattblowers on Dec 17, 2019 16:10:48 GMT
But you also have the swarmlord and if it lives and makes it across the board or OOE, they will kill pretty much anything. They pretty much kill a screen and then are standing in the open with their pants down around their ankles and get lit up in return. At least Swarmlord has an invul. |
|
|
|
Post by xsquidz on Dec 17, 2019 16:16:23 GMT
But you also have the swarmlord and if it lives and makes it across the board or OOE, they will kill pretty much anything. They pretty much kill a screen and then are standing in the open with their pants down around their ankles and get lit up in return. At least Swarmlord has an invul. You guys always make me laugh, take everything in a vacuum. Use Hive guard to clear screens, use the hive tyrant devourers to clear screens then charge the gooey center! If the screen can survive to that then that screen is worth charging itself! |
|
|
|
Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 17, 2019 16:23:53 GMT
They pretty much kill a screen and then are standing in the open with their pants down around their ankles and get lit up in return. At least Swarmlord has an invul. You guys always make me laugh, take everything in a vacuum. Use Hive guard to clear screens, use the hive tyrant devourers to clear screens then charge the gooey center! If the screen can survive to that then that screen is worth charging itself! Point is, SL is 250 points. That's not cheap. You put him in the table, he HAS to impact the game or you are playing 1750 vs 2000. Slinging something up is impactful, even if he slings himself, but if he does, he HAS to kill something heavy. That's unfortunately not negotiable. This is part of the greater issue I have with our HQ being stupidly expensive for an army that is being advertised as a prime example of a horde faction. If you have your Hive Guard shooting at screens just for your SL to make it through, then that's an extra 258 pts not impacting the board. It keeps adding up. On the other hand, I think SL is small enough that can circle around most screens, and if he downs 5x infiltrators so that I can deepstrike normally next turn, I will consider that a win. Problem is, you're more likely to do more slinging forward anything else than slinging the SL. For a 250 pt model, the fact that he doesn't have a sweeping attack mode really kills him. I mean, the new Keeper of Secrets is like 210 pts now, and yes, he has a worse save, but he has more wounds, he's faster, he hits MUCH harder and he's cheaper to boot. Swarmy could use a drop of 30 points and so would most of our other HQs, with the exception of the Tervigon that could use a 50 pt drop. |
|
|
|
Post by purestrain on Dec 17, 2019 16:26:14 GMT
They pretty much kill a screen and then are standing in the open with their pants down around their ankles and get lit up in return. At least Swarmlord has an invul. You guys always make me laugh, take everything in a vacuum. Use Hive guard to clear screens, use the hive tyrant devourers to clear screens then charge the gooey center! If the screen can survive to that then that screen is worth charging itself! Aggressors. Good luck lmao. |
|
|
|
Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 17, 2019 16:30:38 GMT
You guys always make me laugh, take everything in a vacuum. Use Hive guard to clear screens, use the hive tyrant devourers to clear screens then charge the gooey center! If the screen can survive to that then that screen is worth charging itself! Aggressors. Good luck lmao. Oddly enough, aggressors are really one of the things I am LEAST worried about with my Tyranids. Much as I fear them with my plaguebearer/ TSons list, with Nids we have so many ways to deal with them from 36" away it's not even funny. Exo + symbiostorm + 3 damage shots = fully dead squad of aggressors. HVC also do a number on them and hive guard are always there to soften them up. Not to mention that Maleceptor now makes them str 3 which brings their killyness down a lot. |
|
|
|
Post by xsquidz on Dec 17, 2019 16:32:42 GMT
You guys always make me laugh, take everything in a vacuum. Use Hive guard to clear screens, use the hive tyrant devourers to clear screens then charge the gooey center! If the screen can survive to that then that screen is worth charging itself! Aggressors. Good luck lmao. This list is designed to take aggressors! #1 your hive guard shoot them and soften them. #2 if they are in range they might have to move on T1 so only 1/2 the shots. They are hitting you on 4's (malanthrope)-maybe they get re-roll's, wounding you on 6's (Maleceptor) maybe they re-roll 1's, they are in heavy doctrione so no AP so you have a 2+ save-jorg. That is going to take ALOT of bolters/aggressors to kill 1 of the monsters. Do the math, I haven't yet but I will. On T2 as you slowly creep up, they might get in double tap range and they go to tact doct so AP1, it will hurt but they aren't going to wipe out 3+ hive tyrants in a turn. I think it will struggle against executioner repulsars moreso. I will post a list later with some thoughts on it when I have more time. |
|
|
|
Post by mattblowers on Dec 17, 2019 16:35:48 GMT
They pretty much kill a screen and then are standing in the open with their pants down around their ankles and get lit up in return. At least Swarmlord has an invul. You guys always make me laugh, take everything in a vacuum. Use Hive guard to clear screens, use the hive tyrant devourers to clear screens then charge the gooey center! If the screen can survive to that then that screen is worth charging itself! That's from my play experience not from a vacuum. It's why stealer sling works so well. It can kill a screen and wrap the target so not to get shot off the board. I'm thinking the 2D6 consolidate might actually be our best adaptation. |
|
|
|
Post by purestrain on Dec 17, 2019 17:08:15 GMT
Aggressors. Good luck lmao. This list is designed to take aggressors! #1 your hive guard shoot them and soften them. #2 if they are in range they might have to move on T1 so only 1/2 the shots. They are hitting you on 4's (malanthrope)-maybe they get re-roll's, wounding you on 6's (Maleceptor) maybe they re-roll 1's, they are in heavy doctrione so no AP so you have a 2+ save-jorg. That is going to take ALOT of bolters/aggressors to kill 1 of the monsters. Do the math, I haven't yet but I will. On T2 as you slowly creep up, they might get in double tap range and they go to tact doct so AP1, it will hurt but they aren't going to wipe out 3+ hive tyrants in a turn. I think it will struggle against executioner repulsars moreso. I will post a list later with some thoughts on it when I have more time. Transhuman physiology and cover says no to you. worse if IH or has a FNP |
|
|
|
Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 17, 2019 17:17:18 GMT
This list is designed to take aggressors! #1 your hive guard shoot them and soften them. #2 if they are in range they might have to move on T1 so only 1/2 the shots. They are hitting you on 4's (malanthrope)-maybe they get re-roll's, wounding you on 6's (Maleceptor) maybe they re-roll 1's, they are in heavy doctrione so no AP so you have a 2+ save-jorg. That is going to take ALOT of bolters/aggressors to kill 1 of the monsters. Do the math, I haven't yet but I will. On T2 as you slowly creep up, they might get in double tap range and they go to tact doct so AP1, it will hurt but they aren't going to wipe out 3+ hive tyrants in a turn. I think it will struggle against executioner repulsars moreso. I will post a list later with some thoughts on it when I have more time. Transhuman physiology and cover says no to you. worse if IH or has a FNP Single exocrine, symbiostorm, +1 damage vs cover + transhuman aggressors --> 4-5 dead aggressors. We are really one of the armies that have some of the best answers to infantry based marine armies. |
|
|
|
Post by mule on Dec 17, 2019 18:02:06 GMT
Pretty sure OOE doesn't kill a Knight in one turn even by attacking twice, but we have other stuff to soften him up (really love HVC lately) and besides a knight isn't even the most threatening thing for Tyranids. But I am really really dissapointed with the Hive Tyrant damage output and cost honestly. Hive tyrants are too expensive for sure now, you are right about that! I ran 7 for one event (before rule of 3) and went 5-0 with a perfect 100-0 score lol. Then like a week later they went up in points and rule of 3. I didn't even want to take 7, it was a team event, I owned 4, borrowed 3 from a teammate, it was so dumb and unfun to play. At that time they needed the points increase. What GW doesn't take into account enough is how armies and things around units change, tyrants even at the points increase were still great for a while, now so much other stuff (like marines) are SO good, they need to come back down, that is for sure. OOE does about 25 wounds on average to a knight with 2 rounds of attacking, they have 24 wounds so it is close, but smite the knight 1-2 times first if you want to be sure! His MW on the charge might even be enough if you get the 4+. Use the re-roll to wound strat on him for 1 CP. 5 attacks hitting on 2's (on the charge-even with the -1 from his weapon), proc extra hits on 5+ (he gets +2 to hit and -1 from weapon), CP if you roll a one, sure you can flub but I am always dealing with averages. Then if he attacks back and kills you, spend 2 CP and do it again and since he doesn't have brackets he still attacks at full capacity and the knight should die, if he attacks something else or somehow flubs on you, spend 3 CP and fight again. No way for them to stop him from attacking twice really. Unless my mathhammer is wrong, each round of attacks he does 12.35 wounds to a knight. I dont think they even needed a point increase, i think they just needed a rule change from as many as you want to rule of 3 and theyd be fine. We didnt have a good core list, it was just flyrant cheese flying around smiting and dumping damage and clearing points. If we were limited to 3 flyrants we wouldve been fine even if they were "cheap" I think gws just does too many changes at the same time. The last time nids placed well was the 7 flyrants. Now we dont place at all revert some of the point increases back to where they were, if the army wins too much tweak. They said they were going to do quick updates via online but we're 2 weeks in no bob faq. (please do not swear) should be answered quickly do one question a day idfk. Im not impressed with their model its going back to 7e where you need 5 books to play an army. I played gsc the other weekend need brb vigilus ca and gsc books Now we play nids need brb nids ca and bob. |
|
|
|
Post by mattblowers on Dec 17, 2019 20:26:41 GMT
The last time nids placed well was the 7 flyrants. How soon we forget. 1 year ago 'nids were rockin Swarmlord, 2x mas stealers, 30x horms, unit of hive guard, and OOE to a lot of success. |
|
|
|
Post by mule on Dec 17, 2019 20:30:33 GMT
The last time nids placed well was the 7 flyrants. How soon we forget. 1 year ago 'nids were rockin Swarmlord, 2x mas stealers, 30x horms, unit of hive guard, and OOE to a lot of success. Not really in tournaments. They weren't placing as bad as we were now but when youre talking about gt's last i remember was 7 flyrants. When knight codex dropped we had some success once we figured out how to deal with them but we got blasted off the board by the other lists that counter ik like DE |
|
|
|
Post by 1b2a on Dec 18, 2019 1:33:30 GMT
The last time nids placed well was the 7 flyrants. How soon we forget. 1 year ago 'nids were rockin Swarmlord, 2x mas stealers, 30x horms, unit of hive guard, and OOE to a lot of success. From my memory this was really early when the codex dropped and people didnt expect the SL slings. |
|
|
|
Post by No One on Dec 18, 2019 1:45:04 GMT
No, it was a top tier thing for a year or so: I'm not sure how well it did across the board, but there were some very good players placing highly with it in various forms (e.g. with aberrants post CA, but before GSC Codex). It's been a while, so I can't exactly say if it won, but I'm pretty sure Alex McDougall and John Lennon both won with it.
Where as flyrants weren't popular for that long in comparison, especially for ITC (I think there were only 1 or 2 big tournaments where flyrant spam was a thing in ITC: bit longer and more successful in ETC, but even then I think it was only one big win).
|
|
