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Post by mattblowers on Jan 4, 2020 12:08:42 GMT
The shadowsun model is sweeet. It is. But my immediate reaction was “Why elevate the model geedubs!?” It’s such a liability. Those Warcry models too. Except the retarded cat. The one head looks like cousin Eddy who was kicked in the head by a mule when he was 6, and the other looks like a buck-toothed bobcat instead of a Sabre-toothed tiger. |
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Post by xsquidz on Jan 4, 2020 13:18:31 GMT
(Take with salt, it's not my list and I don't play ITC). Take 9 with mining lasers (mortars are trash and always have been). Kill enough stuff that you can get your secondaries and hold/kill more mid/late game. It's not like you can't win if your opponent gets 2/3 maxed secondaries. The 2 lists I've seen is 9 ridgerunners, 3 exos and HG and Alex McDougall playing with stealer sling instead of the exos. The first won against IF and Tau, but I think going 1st was a big part in that, letting the army kill enough that when the ridgerunners died, there wasn't much firepower behind that to bother the rest of the army. And the other game was vs DE and I don't think they had the firepower to deal with the ridgerunners, letting them and the HG clean up while stealers went for scoring. I didn't see all of the games, just my take aways from what I saw/heard afterwards. That said, I don't know if it's good enough just due to vulnerability to a bunch of stuff going 2nd, and still struggling into other stuff going 1st. But it seems like it might be a viable list, at least for mid tables. One thing that I forgot (since I never used them) is that heavy mining lasers are D3 shots! That means a unit of 3 ridgerunners for under 200 points is getting 3D3 lascannon shots basically. Hitting on 3's with a jackel, 4 without even 5 with a minus one, that means a squad of 3 on average will pretty much kill a venom per turn which is not bad (even hitting on 5's). Alex also took the +6" range on them so 42" range is pretty solid, means with thier pregame scout you should have to move them at all after that so no -1 to their shooting. While they might not get the cult traits they DO have the cult keyword, which means if you go hivecult your warlord can give them re-roll 1's. Then if you are firing at something big like an imperial knight, as soon as you damage it use the hiveculkt strat for another +1 to hit and if it was your jackels target you are now hitting on 2's, re-rolling 1's. The issue was they were too many points before, but now 9 of them with a jacklet is like 600 points ONLY. They are T5 with 8 wounds each as well, that is 72 wounds on the ridgerunners with a 4+ save so they are decent against bolters since they will be wounding you on 5's which is the meta. I am not saying this is the way GSC is going to go but I understand completely why they work with such a major points drops. |
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Post by kazetanade on Jan 4, 2020 13:52:12 GMT
No One, kazetanade; I hear everyone keep saying Ridgerunners, why? They got cheaper, but I found them to be trash. I bought three and they did (please do not swear) all in any game I played them in besides giving tons of secondaries. The mortars are worse now because everyone has dropped squishy small squads because of TFC. I just don’t see it and 3 were expensive enough. 3 x 3 Ridgerunners maxes out both BGH and GB, meaning you don't score any more for bringing MCs and Warriors/HG. So theres some Synergy there. Its 3d6 shots of 4+ to hit, then 6d6 shots of 3+ to hit. Assuming you go first and draw LOSA, there's +1 to hit more. The package is 60ppm, 540pts total for a big block of anti tank that overlaps with all the best shooting elements in the game for our faction. It's cheap enough to be expendable after 1 shooting phase, but tanky enough that you have to draw heat and can't be taken out with stay or excess firepower. Its a pretty good package, its just not plug and play. 24W of T5 4+ for 180pts is actually not bad honestly, and the shooting is effective. I've been considering it instead of RC Bikers, but not seriously yet. |
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Post by gigasnail on Jan 4, 2020 17:56:08 GMT
Yeah the LoS rules really punish anything with the slightest dynamic pose.
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Post by syrcle on Jan 12, 2020 18:45:50 GMT
I’m trying to keep alive my gsc. I admit that when I switched the kraken battalion with a kronos battalion, things went better.
6 hive guard that shoot twice with the new spell and rerolling ones, double broodlord to countercharge and to help guards to make holes to fill with acos.
Kronos batt
2x broodlord
3x swarm
6x hive guard
3 meiotic spores
Twisted helix batt
Iconward
Patriarch
10 acolytes, 4 saw
2x10 brothers
Goliath truck
4ae batt-deliverance broodsurge
Primus
Magus
Iconward
2x15 acolytes, 6 saws each
15 acolytes with hf
14 acolytes with hf
Clamavus
Nexos
Spores are the only unit that can be deployed at 9” from the start and can help to zone out invictors and so on. Truck with 10 acos have the same role. Without los it’s difficilt to remove the truck and with 3” from getting off, 6” movement, 2” bonus from twisted helix trait cult and 3d6 (advance + charge) can treat ~21”, that isn’t bad. The only things to watch out is for psychic stimulus that sometimes can be dispelled/not casted with success. Before CA 10 aberrants were my unit to go, but with 60 points increase I found that for a countercharge were too many points.
Double flamer bomb can help with horde and to remove screening unit, but are in the same det to try to charge with the iconward wlt when I run out cp very fast.
I’m trying more or less this list for a while and I feel that is not that bad, flyer spam is the list archenemy, but play the missione and bla bla bla.
I don’t like play stealers anymore. When I play against marines, when I don’t start I waste so many points with SL and 2x stealers. With 6 guards I can avoid that and killing all that omni-scramblers out there.
How are you adapting to this meta?
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Post by wormlord666 on Jan 13, 2020 9:19:22 GMT
I’m trying to keep alive my gsc. I admit that when I switched the kraken battalion with a kronos battalion, things went better. 6 hive guard that shoot twice with the new spell and rerolling ones, double broodlord to countercharge and to help guards to make holes to fill with acos. Kronos batt 2x broodlord 3x swarm 6x hive guard 3 meiotic spores Twisted helix batt Iconward Patriarch 10 acolytes, 4 saw 2x10 brothers Goliath truck 4ae batt-deliverance broodsurge Primus Magus Iconward 2x15 acolytes, 6 saws each 15 acolytes with hf 14 acolytes with hf Clamavus Nexos Spores are the only unit that can be deployed at 9” from the start and can help to zone out invictors and so on. Truck with 10 acos have the same role. Without los it’s difficilt to remove the truck and with 3” from getting off, 6” movement, 2” bonus from twisted helix trait cult and 3d6 (advance + charge) can treat ~21”, that isn’t bad. The only things to watch out is for psychic stimulus that sometimes can be dispelled/not casted with success. Before CA 10 aberrants were my unit to go, but with 60 points increase I found that for a countercharge were too many points. Double flamer bomb can help with horde and to remove screening unit, but are in the same det to try to charge with the iconward wlt when I run out cp very fast. I’m trying more or less this list for a while and I feel that is not that bad, flyer spam is the list archenemy, but play the missione and bla bla bla. I don’t like play stealers anymore. When I play against marines, when I don’t start I waste so many points with SL and 2x stealers. With 6 guards I can avoid that and killing all that omni-scramblers out there. How are you adapting to this meta? wouldn’t it be nice to put the truc in the broodsurge unit for possibility to do a ”reckless manouvre” and charge? |
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Post by No One on Jan 13, 2020 9:58:19 GMT
How are you adapting to this meta? Added HG because they're really strong now, giving me some good T1 and anti-screening options, as well as just being generally good use of mandatory points on board. Been doing really well so far, I think it shores up a lot of weaknesses while still helping into good match ups. Unfortunately, don't know if it helps too much into really bad match ups, but hey, I'm not marines I can't have everything  . |
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Post by syrcle on Jan 13, 2020 12:01:44 GMT
[/quote]wouldn’t it be nice to put the truc in the broodsurge unit for possibility to do a ”reckless manouvre” and charge?[/quote]
Truck can embark <cult> infantry. Twisted helix offers +2 to advance roll and with s+1 they can charge T5 units (centurion? Coff coff) wounding on 2. Other than this, I’m always hungry for CPs, with reckless manouvre I should spend 1 cp to try a 9” charge, so a second cp to reroll one dice.
Aberrants were so much better, but even without improvised weapon are 30 pts more than before, with less appeal.
Hive guard are great right now. The possibility to ignore ap -1/-2 is huge, with that they can provide more fire support than before Bob.
It turned out that with more acolyte things went better for me. I’m shocked!! XD
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Post by naviedzony on Jan 13, 2020 14:26:47 GMT
Who would thought?!  |
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Post by kazetanade on Jan 13, 2020 17:02:52 GMT
Apply 20 Acolytes with buff. If problem persists, apply another 20 Acolytes with buff to the face.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Jan 13, 2020 17:10:10 GMT
Had another game with GSC vs. Sororitas using ITC. Continuing my theory of trucks. Again against very little AT. Lost 21-20 List was:
Bladed Cog w/Grandsire gift
Patriarch w/Familiar (Cog Relic, Stalker)
Jackal Alphus (Gift from Beyond)
3x Laser/Launcher Neo's in trucks
Kelermorph
5x Jackals w/demo
Primus
Magus
16 Flamerlytes
2x 15 Acolytes w/5 saws
Nexos
My opponents list was roughly:
(Brigade)
Cannoness
Celestine
Preacher? Can't remember
6x 5 Sisters
Preacher?
2x 10 Deathcults
2x Seraphim? (Ones with 4 weapons)
1x pistol jump packs
2x Conflag Exorcist
Retributor
All the squads had Storm Bolters and Heavy Bolters
We rolled mission 5 and our secondaries were:
Recon, Kingslayer, Engineer (Sororitas)
Recon, Butchers Bill and Old School (me)
Lots of fun, as I haven't played the new book. Having traits on vehicles is fun. The Miracle dice didn't come up that often, he rolled exceptionally bad dice (2,3,2,3,4,5,2,1) or something like that.
I learned that Exorcists are dirty at T8 and a strat to shoot after falling back. Took both Acolytes to melt 1. Unlucky that Might never went off, forgot Oppresors and never did Broodsurge as I rarely use it. Oops.
All the trucks lived this game, and pnly casualties were 2x Acolyte squads, Primus and the Kelermorph. Bikes were down to 1 and arguably useless now without Rusted Claw/Alphus boost.
We loved the ITC format this game, made it so much more enjoyable to be engaged vs. Pulling random BS.
Open topped w/Lasers and Launchers gives much needed fire support turn 1. If they get deleted it was going to happen anyways and they are cheap enough.
Now to buy more trucks..
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Post by mule on Jan 13, 2020 17:14:19 GMT
Apply 20 Acolytes with buff. If problem persists, apply another 20 Acolytes with buff to the face. Not sure if that works in the marine meta though. I think 9 ridge runners should probably be a staple in lists now. I'm a believer after seeing what they can do in a nid cult mix list. |
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Post by kazetanade on Jan 13, 2020 18:37:01 GMT
Apply 20 Acolytes with buff. If problem persists, apply another 20 Acolytes with buff to the face. Not sure if that works in the marine meta though. I think 9 ridge runners should probably be a staple in lists now. I'm a believer after seeing what they can do in a nid cult mix list. It works. I can play mass Acolytes into Marines - it just doesnt feel good, since you cant really tank the backhand properly. I am not going out there to buy 9 Ridgerunners... my poor wallet wouldnt let me. Besides, didnt the generals say that it worked out really well because they went first, if they'd gone 2nd it'd be a completely different game? |
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Post by mule on Jan 13, 2020 18:51:22 GMT
Not sure if that works in the marine meta though. I think 9 ridge runners should probably be a staple in lists now. I'm a believer after seeing what they can do in a nid cult mix list. It works. I can play mass Acolytes into Marines - it just doesnt feel good, since you cant really tank the backhand properly. I am not going out there to buy 9 Ridgerunners... my poor wallet wouldnt let me. Besides, didnt the generals say that it worked out really well because they went first, if they'd gone 2nd it'd be a completely different game? I mean if they throw in infiltrators and stuff I don't think it'd be particularly fun doing 1x PA a turn and having to spend so much tax just to get a unit of saws or w.e into melee consistantly just seems like it wouldn't be a good tactic. Pair that with assault cents leafblowering you off the board. Sure it could be done but are you going to win is the question. __ Only vs tau. Think tau can rip a lot of the ridge runners off the board just because of good range and high damage high ap shots. IH can't do the same they're limited on range. I think his list is also weaker if it goes second. But I think a pure or mostly pure excluding hivegaurd list would be fine. Take 2x Neuro 3x3 rippers hivegaurd and then take 3x3 ridge runners with jackal alphus and instead of taking swarmy neuro +2x16 genestealers instead spend that on cult. You should be able to do typical culty things with 600 points hiveguard can rip infiltrators and ridge runners can zone out if needed. Since assault cent's aren't that great against them. Think competitive cult list should be backbone of 3x3 ridge runners, alphus and neuro hiveguard. Finish and fix the rest of the list however you like. |
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Post by kazetanade on Jan 13, 2020 19:13:35 GMT
It works. I can play mass Acolytes into Marines - it just doesnt feel good, since you cant really tank the backhand properly. I am not going out there to buy 9 Ridgerunners... my poor wallet wouldnt let me. Besides, didnt the generals say that it worked out really well because they went first, if they'd gone 2nd it'd be a completely different game? I mean if they throw in infiltrators and stuff I don't think it'd be particularly fun doing 1x PA a turn and having to spend so much tax just to get a unit of saws or w.e into melee consistantly just seems like it wouldn't be a good tactic. Pair that with assault cents leafblowering you off the board. Sure it could be done but are you going to win is the question. __ Only vs tau. Think tau can rip a lot of the ridge runners off the board just because of good range and high damage high ap shots. IH can't do the same they're limited on range. I think his list is also weaker if it goes second. But I think a pure or mostly pure excluding hivegaurd list would be fine. Take 2x Neuro 3x3 rippers hivegaurd and then take 3x3 ridge runners with jackal alphus and instead of taking swarmy neuro +2x16 genestealers instead spend that on cult. You should be able to do typical culty things with 600 points hiveguard can rip infiltrators and ridge runners can zone out if needed. Since assault cent's aren't that great against them. Think competitive cult list should be backbone of 3x3 ridge runners, alphus and neuro hiveguard. Finish and fix the rest of the list however you like. Your main problems are 1: Infiltrators blocking certain entryways. There is a standard 1 unit of Infiltrators in any given SM list. Or should be, anyway. You have to deal with this with a PA from outside 12" range. With 20 man stacks, you can stretch the line far enough that it can charge things outside the Infil bubble. 2. Eliminators taking out your buff bubbles. Having adequate cover in Acolytes who are wrapped in charges, while being close enough to UL, are your only real defenses against them. Your other option which I think we can even consider super seriously is to drop 3" Kellermorph into them, because a pure Cult list has very few other options - just Kellermorphs, or Demo Bikers. 3: SM Shock Attack Backhand Slap, which is when you go in to wrap a unit of SM and they slap you really hard with their base A and Shock Attack increased A, while in a reroll bubble. If you do damage to them, ie you kill 3/5 of them, you're fine. It's when you try to wrap a full unit without whittling them down that you feel the hurt. 4: Executioner Repulsors. What has anti-tank, anti-infantry, anti-melee, FLY, and really tanky? This unit is a little stupid in its design. Everything else the SM can throw at you is dealt with like any other army - careful application of power at the right point. There isnt an army in the game that cant leafblower you away, Assault Cents arent the first thing to do it, and Saws should be well suited to killing them. That said, it isnt EASY - it's a difficult game because melee isnt your safe haven, unlike vs Eldar or Tau, or old Marines. The new tools they have just make it harder, and no it isnt fun. It is POSSIBLE, even PLAUSIBLE to win very hard Marine lists with an extremely fine tuned GSC list based around Acolytes (although I favoured Abberrants because they had more leeway for error and traded much better with Fight When Die, T4, 4++), but it is in no way favourable to do so. I gave up the moment I saw Sallies come into the game with FTGG Overwatch with Flamers that +1 or +2 to wound and maxed out D6 on a whim. I am thinking on the Ridgerunners very hard - I think its a good block. I dont think it's a competitive staple. It's a cheap block of wounds that puts out damage, yes, and synergizes very well with specifically HG/Warrior + Shooty MC builds, due to overwhelming the Objectives so that although it maxes out, they cant get any more objectives off of the Nids. However, It's got BS problems and it has target problems. It requires a 36" buff target, and requires a unit to have finished shooting first, meaning it only shoots down 1 thing really well, doesnt do so well vs the next thing after that (Judging from my BC Laser days, where my effective shooting really drops after killing the first target). Of course having 9d3 lasers helps a lot more than having 10 so that helps mitigate some of the issues. I think if anyone is really interested they should give it a try because it has potential, but I wouldnt say it's a competitive staple most will be using. This one I could be VERY wrong on though. |
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