GSC post CA2019

[Hive Bahamut]

What an interesting ride this CA was for GSC. I am quite interested in some of the choices, while others were on par for the course. I actually think they got out better than they could have been hit, and I am eager to hear some professional insight about where they are going.

GSC is a weirdly unique codex, in that it was built with the foundation of 7th in mind, almost a framework for 8th. All the models are currently supported, as well as options. All the characters have some use, and there are very few if any WTF units or ideas. The expanded rules for paint has given a whole new road to playstyles instead of "Please be a 6 for CA!" THAT being said... "OOPH. Right in the Hybrid bug junk!"

So everything that was a workhorse went up in points. For a quick reference everything that changed:

Aberrants +3
Kelermorph +15

Heavy Improvised Weapon +15
Demolition Charge +5
Mortar +2 (old filler)

As you can see that is basically every unit that puts out DPS sub Acolytes. This brings up the issue that Aberrants break 300 points. How can we make that work? Or is it time to maybe try some Hammer Hypermorphs? Curious about some insight here. I will continue to use them just because they are some of my favourite models.

The rest of the CA changes are what interest me the most though, as the previous parts weren't entirely unfounded. Here they are for quick reference:

Metamorphs -2
Cult Leman Russ -15
Ridgerunner -15

Heavy Rock Drill -2
Metamorph Claw -2
Clearance Incinerator -10
Heavy Mining Laser -10
Heavy Seismic Cannon -5
Missile Launcher -5

So right away this screams Rockgrinders and Ridgerunners to me. All the upgrades (sub the now cheaper than Mortar Heavy Mortar) were cut, as well as the basic chassis on the Achilles Ridgerunner. Hive Cult?!

The Metamorphs being the same cost as Acolytes is neat too, as they trade Obsec and 20 for +1A and 10. 5A hitting on 2 at 8 PPM isn't the worst thing is it? Is this enough? Their Claw dropping 2 is much more in line as well.

I was honestly expecting Acolytes to get +1 and Saws to do what Heavy Improvised did. It will be interesting to hear what others have to say.

[xsquidz]

I honestly was expecting acolytes to get nerfed as well BUT I think that would relegate GSC to near bottom tier from the "near" top tier they are now (really before marines came out and blew up the meta). The demo charge nerf hits really hard and I think Abberants are now borderline garbage sadly (but I didn't love them before). Most of my lists went up 25-90ish points and a few went up like 150... when you think that alot of other armies got lots of points decreases its even more of a stealth nerf to GSC. I think it was codex Acolyte before and I think it will stay. I have used Rockgrinders in tons of fun games and they never do very much, if I go 2nd they die so fast so for me these changes just make my currents list lose a few tools or flexibility. BUT the fact that nids already made some decent allies and now are even better means you might see more GSC with a solid amount of nids allied in.

[xsquidz]

Dec 5, 2019 0:46:34 GMT 1b2a said:

Did acolytes stay the same cost? That's all that matters to me. I guess I looked at it wrong?

Yes they did, as did rock saws.

[No One]

Hive Bahamut said:

The Metamorphs being the same cost as Acolytes is neat too, as they trade Obsec and 20 for +1A and 10. 5A hitting on 2 at 8 PPM isn't the worst thing is it? Is this enough? Their Claw dropping 2 is much more in line as well.

And don't get Broodsurge, or regen strat, or saws. I don't think claws have a role, just because acolytes with draw and/or saws are really strong anti-medium/heavy units, which is sort of where claws want to go. But double talons/lash whip could have something: I doubt it in marine meta, since they're squishier per pt (9 and 10 ppm), can't be taken in >10 and I don't think their niche's are really relevant vs SM (double talons is anti-horde or light/med infantry, while whips are anti-cc. Neither are super relevant vs marines). But could definitely be something there in more general lists than previous, especially if meta shifts.

Apart from that, abbys may still be good enough if you know what you're doing with them? Ridgerunners...probably only with nids/guard, but maybe: 25 pts drop per model is pretty solid, but they were pretty lackluster before, so...

[kazetanade]

It's 60pts per model now? They were like 80 or 85 before this, so 25pts drop means they're greatly priced.

I missed this in the last book but apparently GSC Trukks are 70+pts, I think that's actually a good price point for 4 autocannon shots hiding bunch of BC Phytes.

Pair 3 Trukks with 2 sets of Ridgerunners makes a good NON-ITC on table base. Sadly for ITC these options still give up too much IMO. Without the flexibility and mobility and output of the Tau skimmer Flier thing, it's not a hugely workable list.

Abbys should be workable in single Unit. They just become very difficult to use, without TH to secure kills or fight twice to be absolute trading monsters. On the flipside, Pauper Princes or BC Abbys with Pick/Hammers mix can still do work as throwaway or Tankers, respectively.

The fact that Acolytes ppm tank better than Abbys doesn't solve the fundemental issue of all GSC lists, which is ground to DS ratio.

I think with these changes, GSC is going to become a shooting army with some key melee combat. Or become Codex Acolyte, since people who made 120 Acolyte builds work didn't take any penalty at all.

[hammerhand]

They did take a penalty - when a lot of things get cheaper and you stay the same it's a penalty
For tournaments I will go with Tyr and Cult taking the best of 2 worlds. At least that is my plan


So it is around 50 pts more for a full abberants + hypermorph squad. That hurts too much
metamorphs no way - 10 models are not enough to survive overwatch in a good fighting condition. Spending CP for ambush... they are not versatile enough to justify it
ridgerunner - what is the purpose of the model? Bs4 with heavy weapons? if it get down to 30 points I will consider it (perhaps). I love the design though
demo charges 5 pts - ok, I will take it, with rusted claw swingy but good. I will find the extra 25 points somewhere
leman russ - so basically 2 free heavy bolters. not worth it. If you want to play russes, tank commanders are the better choice. better BS, more weapon choices.
kelermorph hurts too. usually he makes his points back easily, but most of the time he shoots just once when set up. Next round he dies. But I thing it is worth it.

[No One]

hammerhand said:

They did take a penalty - when a lot of things get cheaper and you stay the same it's a penalty

Not really. Basically (hopefully actually) the only things that went down were only decent, or bad. So the top tier field's stay the same or gotten worse, pts wise. Considering outside of SM, GSC is pretty top tier?

So it is around 50 pts more for a full abberants + hypermorph squad. That hurts too much

60 pts for signs, 42 for hammermorphs.

ridgerunner - what is the purpose of the model? Bs4 with heavy weapons? if it get down to 30 points I will consider it (perhaps). I love the design though

2 BS 3+ lascannons with alphus with a bunch of T5 4+ wounds. Take 3 for the same cost as a quad las dread: worse BS (even considering alphus) but 2 more shots, so usually same no of hits. 3 times the wounds, with worse T and sv. And loses out on all the marine stuff. Probably not enough, considering that dreads doesn't quite see play outside of IH shenanigans (but that also might just say something about the marine book ). But 30 pts? The only reason you wouldn't take 9 of them would be because of wallet pretty much.

[Hive Bahamut]

So just throwing some numbers around, the most obvious thing to me seems like just dropping the Aberrants. I never got to run them as TH so I won't feel the loss of fight 2x as much as others.

This has more or less been my core lately, and I don't think that changes:

Patriarch w/Familiar
Jackal Alphus

3x Neophytes w/Mining and Grenade or Webber

Primus
Iconward

15-20 Acoflamers
2x15 Acolytes w/Saws

(10 Aberrants w/Improvised)

Now the question is, do we toss our units in Trucks, Grinders and rely on the Achilles heel? I don't see them working as is, and with 4+ I worry that they just go up in smoke quicker than a Haemonculus skin suit hit with fire.

I think this cemented the Alphus as auto-include as well as the Patriarch. Getting to BS3+ is going to be essential in shooting. Does the Hive Cult pull ahead now with the reroll 1 aura?

Also, what about 2x bike squads and Flamerlytes with a couple saw squads instead of Aberrants?

Very confused as to where to go, apart from buying another $500 worth of vehicles to an army that excelled in just infantry.

PS:The more maths I do on GSC, the more it appears the answer to most of my problems is "Liberally apply 20 acolytes with aura buffs to the face. repeat if the issue persists" Sneggy I think there is more truth to this than ever before.

[syrcle]

Don’t call Sneggy or next time acolytes will cost 16 pts more XD

[No One]

Hive Bahamut said:

Now the question is, do we toss our units in Trucks, Grinders

...No? There's no more reason to run them than before. Transports and DS units don't mix.

I think this cemented the Alphus as auto-include as well as the Patriarch. Getting to BS3+ is going to be essential in shooting. Does the Hive Cult pull ahead now with the reroll 1 aura?

Just as much as before, it's strong in a shooting portion of a list. BC>Hive Cult for neos, and I think those are still going to be the go to: ridgerunners might have a place. Or they might not.

syrcle said:

Don’t call Sneggy or next time acolytes will cost 16 pts more XD

*Points at sig* That's been a Sneggy opinion for a while.

[Hive Bahamut]

Dec 7, 2019 7:33:03 GMT No One said:

Hive Bahamut said:

Now the question is, do we toss our units in Trucks, Grinders

...No? There's no more reason to run them than before. Transports and DS units don't mix.

I think this cemented the Alphus as auto-include as well as the Patriarch. Getting to BS3+ is going to be essential in shooting. Does the Hive Cult pull ahead now with the reroll 1 aura?

Just as much as before, it's strong in a shooting portion of a list. BC>Hive Cult for neos, and I think those are still going to be the go to: ridgerunners might have a place. Or they might not.

syrcle said:

Don’t call Sneggy or next time acolytes will cost 16 pts more XD

*Points at sig* That's been a Sneggy opinion for a while.

That is what this topic is for. Brainstorming what to do with the army, and trying to come up with solutions.

Maybe this is when Nids bleed in? Or something else. As it stands a bunch of Acolytes is not only daunting to buy paint and assemble, but ridiculously mundane and easy to remove at T3 5+. Also, 120 is roughly $1500 in Moose money so...

Doing a 1500 tomorrow (first ITC game) with updated points. List is:

2x Bladed Cog Batallion

Patriarch and Fam
Alphus

3x10 Neo w/Lasers and Grenades
Kelermorph
5x Demo Bikes

3x Goliath (2 proxy to try for Neos)

Patriarch w/Fam
Primus

15 Flamerlytes
20 Acolytes w/8 saws
10 Brood Bro

Now double whammy here, first list with no Aberrants and first trial at ITC. (Been trying to get group to switch, much more fun picking secondaries.)

Usually I would run Aberrants in place of the transports and another big blob of Acolytes. I don't "feel" like the list works, because of the horrid experiences I have had with Goliaths. They are typically a steamy pile of do nothing all game while murdering 1:6 that get out when it inevitably explodes.

That being said progressive thinking and so lets try it. Open to suggestions.

[Kyokii]

I gotta wonder if they'll faq any of these point changes, too. Supposedly the CA was finished and off to print before the marine dex came out and we saw the smack down it brought to the meta.
Also, neophytes are 55/model. Which, hilarious typo, but come on guys.

[No One]

Yeah, I'm looking at getting some more cultists for conversions/neos, but will hold off until CA FAQ: it'll happen, just remains to be seen whether it's impactful or not.

[Hive Bahamut]

3 Goliaths with Neos
3 Grinders with Acos
3 Ridgerunners with Hlaser?

I don't expect any changes FAQ time. Tyranid faction has never come out better than going in for any FAQ in 8th.

I doubt they even fix the misprint of 55 point Neophytes.

That being said the part I don't like is that they flip flopped the army seemingly from melee to shooty to sell all the chassis models, that just coincidentally lined up to what worked. Hard to be optimistic with my favourite when handed such deflating updates.

[gigasnail]

I'm just glad that they didn't burn basic acolytes, as they're what I'd be using as plug and play for an allied detachment.