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Post by yoritomo on Sept 7, 2017 11:02:43 GMT
8th edition is here and with it comes the new iteration of the Vs. Necrons thread.
The intent of this thread is to gather all the questions, advice, tactics, and general knowledge regarding Necrons. It is our hope that the serious discussion in this thread will help you achieve victory in your future games. If you are new then please feel free to ask a question. If you're a veteran then leave your impression or ideas on how to beat Necrons. The more input we have the better we get as a community.
On an administrative note: as this is a focused discussion, the moderators reserve the right to remove off topic posts without warning.
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Post by sumilidon on Jan 24, 2018 8:48:21 GMT
Nothing here so I thought I might add something as an avid Necron player.
Necrons suck - you should have no problem against them. I'll add more just for the fun of it:
Necrons are an army the play the long game. They rely on resilient units that churn out mid-range and consistent shooting and as your amy gets closer, their damage input increases sharply.
The units to be careful of are:
Destroyers / Heavy Destroyers. Good weapons (for Necrons), great maneuverability (for Necrons), good durability and Fly keyword. Their reanimation protocols returns them at full wounds!
Scarabs. Fast, cheap. lots of a attacks, heavily under-estimated units that will grab objectives and tie down units
Immortals with Tesla. Lots and lots of shots from quite a cheap unit that will tear through screens.
Crypteks. Correctly placed, Crypteks will make the killing much, much harder. I take 2 in every list and can honestly say I would have lost every game were it not for these models
Warriors. The best Necron unit is the humble Warrior. Str4, AP-1 Rapid Fire 1 weapons with WS and BS 3+ and a 4+ save. LD10 means unless you wipe the unit, they are going to keep standing up (especially with a Cryptek). For what you get, they are very cheap and those guns will tear through the screens as well as the Tesla Immortals will.
The units you think you should be careful of but really don't need to be:
Wraiths. They are fairly rubbish in 8e (at least until we get a codex). They are really expensive, weak to mortal wounds and generally only good as objective grabbers. Don't be fooled by their 7E reputation - these are not that scary
Lychguard: Good in assault - assuming you come to them. very expensive unit, remarkably slow! As above, use your numerous psykers to Mortal Wound them.
Nightbringer. I love using this guy. He has earned his points back in every game with his Ctan power, shooting attack and melee profile. Character with less than 10 wounds, you'll see him wrapped in Scarabs and causing chaos. Why do you not need to be worried? He's great against Tau, Marines etc - and rubbish against hoardes. Blast away his screen and he's very squishy to massed shooting (such as Devilgants). He's also really expensive!
How to handle Necrons:
Necrons primary weakness is Assault, a lack of speed, a lack of AT and Psykers. This is not to say that they are rubbish at assault - they're ok - but their strength lays in the massed shooting they can bring to the field. Whereas most armies will see their shooting decrease each turn as they take losses, the Necrons excel at coming back to life and keeping that shooting power consistent. As your force decreases, the damage caused becomes exponentialas that firepower focuses on a small number of targets. In assault however, they cannot shoot and they have no psykers - only a handful of wargear options to help them deny.
Due to the Crypteks, Necron players naturally want to turtle up - this gives you ample room to drop in some units from reserves. Necrons struggle with high toughness / high wound models and Tyranids have an army full of them that can pop up right next to them. Drop in a Trygon, a Mawloc and a Hive Tyrant equipped for Melee right next to them and watch your opponents face drop - as they simply have no hard counter to it. This ties them up for your smaller units to pour over the lines (The Mawloc cannot charge yet but will prevent your opponent falling back in a certain direction - as well as distracting the (please do not swear) out of him.)
The old tactic of focusing down a unit remains true so don't expect those Monstrous Creatures to wipe out a unit by themselves as I can guarentee that Cryptek will help more of their Reanimation Protocols stand them back up than you can drop - you need volume to drop a Necron unit.
If your opponent brings several Warriors / Immortals - your best approach for your gants is to deploy lots of squads and hope you can tie up those units with those coming out of Reserves. Necrons going first is not a bad thing, as they don't have that Alpha Strike capability like many other armies do so feel free to add lots of smaller squads with the simply purpose of just grabbing objectives and forgetting about them.
Finally, if you ever get the chance to take out your opponent's Cryptek - then take it.
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Post by bansh on Jan 24, 2018 19:08:39 GMT
Ive played 4 games against crons in 8th, all the above is true however, the doomsday ark is a terrible weapon, you need to harass it to squat its effectiveness, lookout when 2 of them show up, they will destroy everything in the game and monoliths are bonkers when used correctly
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Post by baldwam on Jan 25, 2018 14:27:17 GMT
One member of my 40k buddies plays necrons, and I think this is mostly accurate. I find most of his lists are one trick ponies that you just have to be ready for. I find flyrants with a chameleonic mutation, the horror, rending claws, and devourers to be pretty effective at vehicle hunting, especially against doomsday arks. The doomsday ark might be able to fall back and shoot, but it can't use its d6 damage weapon profile when it moves. If they do a good job of denying you the deepstrike or the charge, then I do sweat a bit when the ark starts shooting at the big bugs. My buddy always seems to roll 6s for damage against my hierodule.
That said, has anyone faced a necron list with the deceiver in it? My friend is starting to think that nids are op since he struggles to get wins against me. I've told him he should probably try playing his nightbringer as the deceiver and teleport half of his army into position to punch me in the face, but he really wants a beatstick akin to swarmy. Thoughts on what necrons units might be effective against nids?
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Post by sumilidon on Jan 26, 2018 11:37:05 GMT
I must be honest, I don't rate the Doomsday Ark at all. Don't get me wrong, it's gun will hurt if it hits, but that gun is terribly unreliable. To put it in to context:
Shooting against a Hive Tyrant:
D3 shots at BS3 (BS4 if moved)
Str 10, wounding on 3+
Hive Tyrant has a 4+ save against it (Then a further 5+ for each unsaved wound if you have Catalyst)
I have used these in several games and must say I have only ever taken them for fluff and looks (it's a good looking model!). Other than that, for 207 points - it's an absolute waste of points. I'm sure the codex will buff it so hopefully be either cheaper or D6 shots for everyone - but honestly, unless your opponent is really lucky - I wouldn't worry about it. The scariest thing on that vehicle is the Gauss Flayers as they will make a mess of Gants.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Feb 2, 2018 0:22:32 GMT
72" gun @ S10 -5AP is wasted shooting at a Flyrant. If they are shooting those over your Exocrine/Hive Guard/Tyrannofex you already won. Bad target priority. They consistently wreck my shooting base with that -5AP.
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Post by chillingworth on Mar 14, 2018 20:55:36 GMT
I play against necrons a few times a month.
I have found that you can play range or CC and win.
The best way to floor a unit of 20 warriors or any Necron infantry and make sure they dont come back, is to pop up a trygon with 30 termies with devours and make use of the annihilation strat to shoot a total of 180 strength 4 shots. This will wipe them off the board.
With Necrons mots things have the fly word, because of the I would advise at lest two hive tyrants (the more the better) fully ready for CC and fly straight up to the doomsythes or Arcs, within two fight phases the Hive Tyrants would have distoryed them (can use the 'fight again' strat to speed that up). I have done this many times. Smiting helps speed things up too.
I have run 12 Biovores in a list too. This takes out Necron vehicles as the wounds inflicted are mortal wounds. This means the Necrons quantum shielding doesnt come into effect. With 12 Biovores I was inflicting on average 6 wounds per shotting round and littering the field with sporemines that come in handy for all sorts of reasons. Combind this with a exocrine or/and Hierodule and you have a good counter solution to the Necrons 'sit back and shoot' tactic that they seem to adopt a lot of the time.
Genestealers rule. However getting them into CC isnt easy. Everyone knows that they rule, so they aim for them as soon as they are on the board. They would need to arrive with a tyrgon and pop up 9" and hope they make the charge. If they do Necron infantry/characters will crumble.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Mar 14, 2018 23:52:48 GMT
Wraiths update just added another army that makes Hivestrains look like chumps. Soon enough they will be back on the bench where overpriced melee units go. Advance + charge is pretty common now and 16ppm is too much for a 5++ blow away.
They had some time in the Sun, but Necrons aren't going to be an army they work on. Too fast and everything flies. Nevermind the flying infantry from gold skin dynasty.
Necrons are like Custodes now. You focus fire down squads then move on, and stay the hell away from combat with their characters. This army will be dismantled from our Mortal Wound Spam. Not much else will work. That and lots of close to heart screens.
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Post by acehilator on Mar 15, 2018 0:35:43 GMT
Wraiths got really expensive, though. Which is bad for an army which is rather expensive and elite. Not the unit to worry about anyways. Tomb Blades and Destroyers are going to be the new hotness. I have been checking out Necron stuff a lot the past days (looking for a new army to start this fall), and the reception to the Codex is rather negative, lukewarm at best, and imho rightfully so. A few powerful things as mentioned, but not much going on apart from that, at least not from a competive standpoint. Some funky new options with C'tan changes, but more for friendly games.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Mar 15, 2018 1:49:52 GMT
They are blowing smoke worse than the Tau players are. At least the Cron codex has some nasty combos other than: Coldstar + 4 Fusion, and Fire warrior Spam.
Tesla + half range -1AP? Doomsday Ark becomes the only non LOW with AP-6
Night Scythes that are guaranteed to drop off unit at 20-60"
Immortals the same cost as Devourgants is not good?!?! (also invalidates premium cost army debate)
Tomb Blades, Destroyers and Wraiths are scary good, nevermind cost. (Not like the army has any upgrades to blow points on)
Some of the Stratagems are staggeringly effective. Self Detonate Spyder factory? 3++ Dispersion? -1 to Quantum is busted on contact.. Good luck removing any Vehicle with that.
Unkillable Warlords, excellent Dynasty rules, good Traits, the best FAST ATTACK in the game and ironically now probably the fastest faction. I'm really struggling to see how this is a bad codex. I'm actually on board now with if we didn't have every action 2x in Stratagems we would be in hot water too.
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Post by Indominus on Mar 15, 2018 10:46:28 GMT
They are blowing smoke worse than the Tau players are. At least the Cron codex has some nasty combos other than: Coldstar + 4 Fusion, and Fire warrior Spam. Tesla + half range -1AP? Doomsday Ark becomes the only non LOW with AP-6 Night Scythes that are guaranteed to drop off unit at 20-60" Immortals the same cost as Devourgants is not good?!?! (also invalidates premium cost army debate) Tomb Blades, Destroyers and Wraiths are scary good, nevermind cost. (Not like the army has any upgrades to blow points on) Some of the Stratagems are staggeringly effective. Self Detonate Spyder factory? 3++ Dispersion? -1 to Quantum is busted on contact.. Good luck removing any Vehicle with that. Unkillable Warlords, excellent Dynasty rules, good Traits, the best FAST ATTACK in the game and ironically now probably the fastest faction. I'm really struggling to see how this is a bad codex. I'm actually on board now with if we didn't have every action 2x in Stratagems we would be in hot water too. Can pretty much agree with you here. C'tan are slightly better now, Tomb Blades are better than they were, and now actually worth taking. Wraiths are better at taking down MEQs than they used to be, and maybe even something like a Dreadnought. Ghost Arks, Crypteks, and massive blobs of warriors are great for survivability. Was hoping that they would change how Spyders spawn Scarab Swarms, because youre torn between staying back to repair vehicles, or moving forward to boost the Scarabs. Liking most of the Dynastic codes, its just a shame that all of our Named Characters are STILL resin!
But im liking the codex so far.
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Post by acehilator on Mar 15, 2018 10:52:17 GMT
Deceiver bomb with Tesla Immortals is an even worse one-trick pony than Swarmy is. Very high cost, lots of moving parts. Nice if it works, but nothing record breaking. Not on the same level as cultist or Devilgant bomb while being a lot more expensive (granted the units brought in are more resilient, but prone to getting tied up in melee).
Bringing the Immortals in with Nightscythes means no MWBD, which cuts down their effectiveness quite a bit (7.something MEQ for one unit). Same as with the Deceiver bomb, not setting the world on fire, and also not a new option (just a bit safer with the emergency exit stratagem).
Immortals are 17 points, 85 for a minimum unit, 170 for a full unit. Not sure why you would compare them to Devilgants, totally different profiles. Also those 85 points are the cheapest troop option available, which is wtf.
Tomb Blades and Destroyers are going to be mainstay yes, if Wraiths join them remains to be seen.
You listed the wrong stratagems if you are looking at strong ones.
Unkillable Warlord (generous definition) is Destroyer Lord, which is a rather schizophrenic model (melee unit which buffs your best medium-range unit), so yeah...
Try building a list. I did, I am not liking what I am seeing. Too many eggs in one basket, not enough board presence, weak AT, and no way to build a list with more than 8 CP.
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Post by Indominus on Mar 15, 2018 11:59:19 GMT
Really I think one of the main things that limits Necrons is the fact that we only have 2 choices for Troops and bubblewrap/DS denial, neither of which being reasonably cheap. Elites slot is pretty crowded, and theres not as much variety with HQ loadouts as there used to be. C'tan powers, while you have a decent chance of getting them, and are one of our few main sources of MW, all of them seem far too random and unnecessarily complicated, despite them all doing more or less the same thing. Even the Transcendant C'tan, who I was hoping would be buffed somewhat, now has his own randomness table ON TOP of the already random powers he can be given. I expect to see more than a few Necron players referring back to their codex a lot more than they need to, or just outright forgetting that a model has this random effect on it which does barely anything. Its just one of those things, random is okay, but too much random makes it difficult and slows the game down.
However, now Tomb blades are useful, Wraiths are somewhat better, Destroyers are a Must-have, Ghost Arks and Crypteks are still required for better survivability... but Named Characters. Save for 2 games where ive seen Orikan, ive NEVER seen any named characters used, not even proxies. Maybe its just that they aren't worth taking, or the fact that theyre all still resin. Same with C'tan shards and Flayed Ones. This has literally just lost all sense of direction at this point.
Okay. TL;DR Necron Codex has good points and bad points, like every other codex. But at least its still playable, and isn't broken completely.
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Post by malkyn76 on Mar 31, 2018 14:14:22 GMT
As having just recently picked up Necrons after playingTyranids for 16 years or so, I have some new respect for the metal guys, especially after getting the new codex. As expensive as Wraiths are (even moreso now) they are a hard hitting unit that can easily cut through mid to big strength units on no time. With the change to -2AP and 2D at S6 they're nothing to ignore, especially since they can fall back, shoot, and charge now, as well as advance and charge for 1 CP. Many of the units can or do come with 9-10S weaponry with -4AP and D6 damage and thus can make short work of anything large that you happen to bring. While I doubt that I'll have a chance to play against Tyranids as I'm the only one who play them in my local shop, I am getting the chance to see them from a first person perspective. Anything smaller than a Lord of War (and even some of those) can be easily erased from the board in a single turn.
Deathmarks can deepstrike in response to your own units coming in and fire immediately, or they can come in on their own and can target characters, causing MW on a 6 to wound in addition to regular damage. They can easily remove your backline synapse when taken in units of 10 if you're not careful with board denial. Lychguard used in conjunction with an Overlord using the Veil of Darkness artefact and My Will Be Done buff can take care of most any small to mid sized unit right away. They need only an 8 to charge, hit on 2s, and are either S6 -3AP 1D or S7 -4AP 2D depending on how they're equipped. The Overlord by himself can be given a voidscythe to strike at S10 -4AP 3D and only need 3+ to hit.
Tesla and rapid fire weapons can mow down hordes in short order which makes it tough for an assault army to be able to get close enough to take them out, especially if they have the Dynasty that increases AP by -1 at half range. There's only one Dynasty that is unusual and in my opinion (automatic 6" advance and can move through terrain and models as if they didn't exist when they do), is not going to be used very often, but the others provide huge benefits that can surely hurt a Tyranid army. You're going to start seeing fast moving assault Necron armies (much like my own) as well as the old standard of stand and shoot horde forces, each being just as hardy and hard hitting as the other. As I get and use more types of units I can lend more insight but that's about it for now!
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Post by Indominus on Apr 1, 2018 8:19:01 GMT
Not forgetting the C'tan, which are a good source of MW that cant be stopped. Also Quantum shielding will be a problem for anything doing D6 or D3 damage. If youre looking to take out a Triarch Stalker or Annihilation Barge then consider an Exocrine or HG, as they make QS much less effective by doing only 1 or 2 damage per wound. However, if you come up against an Obelisk or Triarch Praetorians and youve brought your trusty Flyrant spam, then you may have a difficult game ahead of you. Having already tested my obelisk against Flyrants, its pretty effective when using 1CP to do MW on a 4+, and having strong Overwatch with tesla. Also bear in mind that pretty much all Necron vehicles can fly, so tying them down in melee is difficult. Do NOT charge a unit of gaunts into anything with tesla! No matter how many models you have, some will die to Overwatch, and youll only get 1 round of combat before they fall back and shoot with more tesla.
However, what i can suggest is going for more melee units. The current melee units Necrons have are durable and hard hitting, but expensive. Carnifexes and Tyrants seem to be good ways to deal with Lychguard, although a unit of 10 will cause you problems. Stay away from Destroyers en masse, and try to stay away from large units of Wraiths. Hope this helps to some degree!
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