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Post by Indominus on Apr 16, 2018 8:29:13 GMT
Forcing Doomsday Cannons to move drastically cuts their damage down, making them not worth their points at all. Don't forget about that. Just like we bubblewrap our important units, chances are if a Doomsday Ark is being fielded, it will be screened by some warriors or scarabs. It does also have the Gauss flayer Arrays, so dont underestimate it. But forcing it to move will affect its output by quite a bit. |
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Post by chillingworth on Apr 17, 2018 22:06:41 GMT
Question: Since the new rule release. We have had our turn one deepstrike removed but the necrons haven't?. They can still teleport a character and a single unit (probably lychguard)? into our back line T1, as they are already deployed on the board.
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Post by chillingworth on Apr 17, 2018 22:13:42 GMT
Just seen they can't charge and I think they would count a tactical reserves.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Apr 17, 2018 22:49:17 GMT
The only rule against Necrons: Focus Fire or it will be back to 100% by game end.
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Post by chillingworth on Apr 18, 2018 18:59:07 GMT
The only rule against Necrons: Focus Fire or it will be back to 100% by game end. Was thinking shear volume of shots maybe the way forward with the Vault running up the board at me/or the monolith deepstriking turn 1: Three exocrines, the pop-up trygon prime and 30gaunts with devourers. 180 shots with the gaunts (using strat) 36 shots from the Exocrine. 12 shots from the prime. A total of 228 shots. |
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Post by Indominus on Apr 20, 2018 9:22:56 GMT
The only rule against Necrons: Focus Fire or it will be back to 100% by game end. Was thinking shear volume of shots maybe the way forward with the Vault running up the board at me/or the monolith deepstriking turn 1: Three exocrines, the pop-up trygon prime and 30gaunts with devourers. 180 shots with the gaunts (using strat) 36 shots from the Exocrine. 12 shots from the prime. A total of 228 shots. Problem is, this tactic is using well over 800pts to kill a 496pt model. If you are devoting that much firepower to try and kill a Vault, then chances are you are missing the opportunity to do damage to everything else in the list. If I were you, I would bring enough artillery to knock it down to its first wound bracket, which makes it much less effective, rather than simply trying to kill it outright. Nids don't have much in the way of Heavy Firepower unless you dive into FW, so if you ever come up against one, don't try and kill it unless you know you can. Its literally a bullet magnet designed to waste your shots and kill your expensive units with MWs. |
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Post by chillingworth on Apr 23, 2018 20:51:41 GMT
I can see that, however our range isnt great. The exocrine is only 36 inches (by memory)? A smart necron player will send the vault at you and keep the troops as far away as possible until the vault/doomsday cannons(72" range)pick off the exocrines/biovores. If you start moving the exocrines up the board you are loosing half your shots and as you can only cast catalyst once per phyc phase, you cant catalise them all. Hiding the biovores will help, but as you know if any part of your model can see any part of there model it a valid shot.
I will however take heed of the advise and ignore it next time. Then I can see if the necron range+vault really do distroy my back line before I get a chance to take his attention away from them.
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Post by brassangel on May 31, 2018 3:54:33 GMT
I went 4-0 in a tourney recently and played against 2 Necrons players. First thing to note is, the London GT Carnifex build just eats their lunch. The double DSP kills all the Quantum Shielding stuff with ease. Six shots at S7, -1, 1 is a killer profile against them. Most of their QS stuff is T6.
For the Monoliths and Vaults: thank them for playing a low output, overpriced block that can never hide. Seriously, though, our Heavy and regular Venom Cannons, as well as Impaler Cannons are on units cheap enough to make them worth it, and the VC's aren't heavy so there's no penalty for moving into range. Exocrines, on the other hand, just don't do much for their price and suffer penalties for moving. Put Spores on Carnifexes and suddenly the Necrons need 4's and 5's to hit.
Side note: Don't throw Genestealers into Warrior blobs of 20, as you won't kill them all, a bunch will stand back up and then rapid fire the sealers to death.
On the whole, the 72" range on the Doomsday doesn't matter. The table isn't big enough after deployment to avoid a 36" range. It just isn't. And if they're going to wrap it with dudes, that's a really expensive screen and then they aren't scoring.
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Post by Indominus on Jun 22, 2018 10:09:43 GMT
I went 4-0 in a tourney recently and played against 2 Necrons players. First thing to note is, the London GT Carnifex build just eats their lunch. The double DSP kills all the Quantum Shielding stuff with ease. Six shots at S7, -1, 1 is a killer profile against them. Most of their QS stuff is T6. For the Monoliths and Vaults: thank them for playing a low output, overpriced block that can never hide. Seriously, though, our Heavy and regular Venom Cannons, as well as Impaler Cannons are on units cheap enough to make them worth it, and the VC's aren't heavy so there's no penalty for moving into range. Exocrines, on the other hand, just don't do much for their price and suffer penalties for moving. Put Spores on Carnifexes and suddenly the Necrons need 4's and 5's to hit. Side note: Don't throw Genestealers into Warrior blobs of 20, as you won't kill them all, a bunch will stand back up and then rapid fire the sealers to death. On the whole, the 72" range on the Doomsday doesn't matter. The table isn't big enough after deployment to avoid a 36" range. It just isn't. And if they're going to wrap it with dudes, that's a really expensive screen and then they aren't scoring. There seems to be some flaws with what you are saying.
First off, id like to know what the Carnifexes were charging, how many you used, and what melee weapons they had. 1-3 carnifexes aren't a problem for certain Necron characters and/or Novokh.
Second, Monoliths aren't great singular, but better if theres 2. That's literally 40W of heavy shooting that you cant just ignore all game. And you rarely see vaults in 2000pt games. They don't need to hide, that's what their high T and W are for.
Finally, venom cannons are too unreliable in low numbers. D3 shots hurts, but hurts more when rolling 1s and 2s. As for spores on carnifexes, you seem to be forgetting My Will be Done, meaning that 2 Overlords can give it to 4 units for 2CP. So no matter, they'll all be hitting on 3+ anyway.
Id like to know also what list you used that managed to win against two Necron players. Seems a little suspicious.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Jun 22, 2018 23:57:16 GMT
I typically see:
Sautekh Detahment with melee Novakh?
Orikin
Anrakhyr
2x Cryptek
2x15 Warriors
6 Wraiths
10 Lychguard
Spyder
Nightbringer
The Most I've ever killed is 4 squads. Usually my opponent will pick hammer and anvil making full use of the 72", while negating 36" entirely for 1-2 turns.
I'm stumped on how to kill them. Back to the 7th edition of impossible to table. I can dismantle every army but Crons and a AM list that went first H&A deployment.
Genestealers are useless against 3/4++ (Wraiths and Lychguard) and nothing can take a shot to the chin long enough to wipe the squad before it reanimates.
Our current 4 way game: (FFA it's a mess) saw me lose 70!! Gant Strain models on MY turn. I laid down 2 Warriors and a Lychguard (1 Warrior didn't stand up.) This was using Leviathan for the 6+++.
-1 AP stock just murders our infantry too.
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Post by mule on Jun 23, 2018 2:35:35 GMT
I typically see: Sautekh Detahment with melee Novakh? Orikin Anrakhyr 2x Cryptek 2x15 Warriors 6 Wraiths 10 Lychguard Spyder Nightbringer The Most I've ever killed is 4 squads. Usually my opponent will pick hammer and anvil making full use of the 72", while negating 36" entirely for 1-2 turns. I'm stumped on how to kill them. Back to the 7th edition of impossible to table. I can dismantle every army but Crons and a AM list that went first H&A deployment. Genestealers are useless against 3/4++ (Wraiths and Lychguard) and nothing can take a shot to the chin long enough to wipe the squad before it reanimates. Our current 4 way game: (FFA it's a mess) saw me lose 70!! Gant Strain models on MY turn. I laid down 2 Warriors and a Lychguard (1 Warrior didn't stand up.) This was using Leviathan for the 6+++. -1 AP stock just murders our infantry too. In my experience with Necron if you're not taking a list with 6 destroyers you're kind of losing out a lot, it's like taking a nid list without hiveguard. Wraith are mean as hell, but thats also 330 points they've sunk into it, also wriath don't reanimate so.. if they're standing back up someone's cheating you. Try and avoid your genestealers from going into the the lychguard or the wriaths, and put them on the warriors and double attack with them, just clean them up quick and easy, I disagree with brassangel one turn wont kill them all and yes they'll stand back up but if you dump double attacks into them you'll mop them up easily. Lychguard are stupidly expensive (34 points each.) And if they're equipped with sword and board they're not really hitting hard. The spyder is there specifically to deny your psychic stuff. Mind if I ask you your list? Also here is my cheesy fun Necron list just for the luls: Novoch Supreme Command | 852
Cryptek /w Staff of Light + Cloak | 85
Overlord /w Warscythe + Orb Veil of Dark | 130
Overlord /w Warscythe + Orb | 130
ANRAKYR THE TRAVELLER WL Crimson Haze | 167
10 Lychguard /w Sword and Board | 340
Nihilakh Battalion | 1156
TRAZYN THE INFINITE | 100
Cryptek /w Staff of Light + Chrome | 95
20 Warriors /w Gauss Flayer | 240
19 Warriors /w Gauss Flayer | 228
5 Immortals /w Gauss Blaster | 85
3 Heavy Destroyer | 171
C’tan Shard of the Deceiver | 225
I use the grand illusion ability on deceiver and the re-roll stratagem as many times as I need to so it can deploy 3 units. (It's not in a phase so it's legal, just like the Jormunger tunnel.) I then place the deceiver, Trazyn the Infinite, the 10 Lychguard, and Anrakyr up the board. I then use veil of darkness and move both overlords up the board, and then I move and advance the cryptek with the cloak up the board. For my deathstar to be on an objective and a threat turn 1. Then I just use the lychguard to keep the overlords alive whilst I use the cryptek to help keep everything alive and buff the rolls. Anrakyr makes the Lychguard not terrible in combat, and if trazyn dies i just get him to take over the overlords who have already used res orbs. All the characters can preform a heroic intervention so i get to reroll hit rolls, novoch also gives me access to fight twice, Crimson Haze also gives me access to exploding 6's in the fight phase and Anrakyr also adds +1 attack to everyone in that bubble. It's pretty sick. I just wish I could afford to cut the 3 heavy destroyers and fit in the 6 destroyers instead. Anyone know where I can get another 141 points?  |
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Jun 23, 2018 5:25:02 GMT
There is a Stratagem called *Repair Subroutines* for 2CP that gives any Canoptik unit Reanimation Protocals for a turn. Use on the turn when a Cryptek is nearby and/or Orb for all better.
Well the list is basically fluid. I've had this horrible habit of changing my list every game in 8th. The only constant has been monofleet. I don't want to dip into polyfleet too much until I get bored with it. I imagine this could have some play on the reason. Still struggle making Gorgon and Hydra lists.
Something like...
Kraken:
2x Batallion
Swarmlord
Malany/Flyrant
Broodlord/Flyrant
Neurothrope WL
2x 20 Hivestrains
(1 or both Tsacs.. Yes I know..)
2x 20-30 Termagants
2x Rippers
6x Hive Guard
20x Gargoyles
GSC: (The Secret Sauce) Batallion
2x Magus
3x Neophytes
3x Mortars
(Just started using 6x Grenade Launchers, for 3d6 S3 @6"on top of the Mortar.)
Probably don't need 3x Batallion but I wanted to try it, and usually will go 2x and 1 of choice (1CP usually)
The list you presented is very similar, but capitalizes on the mobility they have. My opponent wouldn't take the 2x Doomsday, Orikin, or the Nightbringer out. Pretty much staples.
I have most of the models, but no Carnifex other than OOE and no more Hive Guard.
PS: You could trim a few Warriors if you REALLY wanted but then they lose their block..
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Post by mule on Jun 23, 2018 7:06:15 GMT
There is a Stratagem called *Repair Subroutines* for 2CP that gives any Canoptik unit Reanimation Protocals for a turn. Use on the turn when a Cryptek is nearby and/or Orb for all better. Well the list is basically fluid. I've had this horrible habit of changing my list every game in 8th. The only constant has been monofleet. I don't want to dip into polyfleet too much until I get bored with it. I imagine this could have some play on the reason. Still struggle making Gorgon and Hydra lists. Something like... Kraken: 2x Batallion Swarmlord Malany/Flyrant Broodlord/Flyrant Neurothrope WL 2x 20 Hivestrains (1 or both Tsacs.. Yes I know..) 2x 20-30 Termagants 2x Rippers 6x Hive Guard 20x Gargoyles GSC: (The Secret Sauce) Batallion 2x Magus 3x Neophytes 3x Mortars (Just started using 6x Grenade Launchers, for 3d6 S3 @6"on top of the Mortar.) Probably don't need 3x Batallion but I wanted to try it, and usually will go 2x and 1 of choice (1CP usually) The list you presented is very similar, but capitalizes on the mobility they have. My opponent wouldn't take the 2x Doomsday, Orikin, or the Nightbringer out. Pretty much staples. I have most of the models, but no Carnifex other than OOE and no more Hive Guard. PS: You could trim a few Warriors if you REALLY wanted but then they lose their block.. Most likely what I'd do is cut a block of warriors for a smaller unit of immortals. It's just cheese anyways it's not my actual necron list. Yeah I know about the subroutines i just thought they were doing it without anything and was like.... um. I'm currently not a fan of GSC I know they can be good but honestly i'm just waiting for the codex at this point. They can't get any worse and I think it's hurting you more than its helping. Tsacs is a lot of points, i know you know but genestealers are already a big enough target in your list there is no reason to make them an even bigger target. It's literally 7 more genestealers you could just have outright. We had this discussion before but I also don't think the gargoyles beat out hormagaunts. I think you just need 1 more heavy hitting unit in your list and you'd be golden. You've got a lot of griblies in there 40 Termas + 20 Gargoyles + 40 Genestealers is a lot of small dudes. I have a feeling like you're forgetting to use caustic blood or something. Most players here are literally starting their list building by going 3x flyrants and 6x Hiveguard. I think thats a good starting point for a list and just figuring out what you want to do from there. |
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Post by sluby on Jun 27, 2018 7:48:32 GMT
I play both necrons and nids so haven't had much experience in vs but termagaunts with devourers should do bits against the infantry ten warriors is 120 pts for that you get 15 devourers so 45 shots.
The necrons are relatively hard to table by nature with reanimation protocols but the games I've lost have been against opponents who just pick apart the army bit by bit. Don't forget anything that fails morale can't reanimate so a 20 warrior unit kill 10 off and whatever that d6 roll is is gone permantly. Exocrine makes mince meat out of lychguard and a tyrannofex or two with acid spray will demolish most necron things if you can get it in range so it doesn't have to move and 4d6.
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Post by devilrules on Jun 27, 2018 8:29:33 GMT
also something to remember, if you completely surround a unit they have nowhere to put reanimated models so are unable to do so
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