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Post by yoritomo on Jul 21, 2014 6:31:03 GMT
7th edition is here. Now that is has been out for a while it is time for us to combine our knowledge and share what we have learned.
This thread is for everything we know about the Dark Eldar. If you know something about the strategies that Dark Eldar players use, or units to watch out for, or how the meta is developing with the Dark Eldar, or popular ally choices, or units you’ve had success with, or anything else that will help fellow nid players do well against Dark Eldar then we’d love for you to share it here.
This is for serious discussion about Dark Eldar armies only. As such, flaming will not be tolerated, if you’re going to debate then use facts and don’t break down into make calling or other such nonsense. Also, this isn’t the place for army list reviews; please take those to the appropriate board. And as always, the moderators reserve the right to delete any off topic replies or inappropriate responses.
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Post by kinsler on Jul 31, 2014 15:01:30 GMT
hello
so I played my first nids Game against Dark Eldar.
My disclaimer is I know i made tactical issues which would of improved the score of the game but as I am new, I will write it up too learning but I still would like to ask the hive what is good tactics against DE.
he killed my MC with ease, when i tried to kill, Raider,Ravager. His jet bikes and Razorwing Jetfighter destroyed my swarm.
Again I had a great game and it was fun but I like to get some tactic which will help me play him again or even things I need to be aware of to stay away from like charging my mawloc against a Raider( or Revager) with 20 troops not the best tactic .
Thank you have cant wait to hear some tactics
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Post by Silegy on Aug 2, 2014 13:06:02 GMT
I would even saay Dark Eldar are our hardest counter. So yea, feel free to cry once you see him bringing DE  |
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Post by tylertt on Aug 2, 2014 18:47:17 GMT
DE honestly are not as bad as a lot of people think they are if you are properly equipped. If you know your battling against them, then we actually have a few solid options to deal with them now. However going into a tourney can be a little hard to plan on facing DE specifically, though most of our tourney lists do decent against them.
Based off my own personal experiences, here is what worked for me, and also what I have seen work well for others.
- FMCs are a pure nightmare for DE now. With only one grounding test per phase now, it can be hard for them to get a lot of wounds. Flyrants obviously dummy their low AV transports, and Crones are actually sweet against them now too with the changes to templates.
- Tyrannofex is a solid option as well too. The guy can usually weather a lot of heat with his +2 sv, and since templates now can destroy units in open topped transports, DE vehicles can take a bit of a beating.
- Biovores are a must. The instant you pop a transport, Biovores can easily and quickly mop up most of the mess that spilled out.
- Use lots of swarms to act a shield for you. DE weapons are good at easily getting wounds onto MCs, however when they waste their shots on small guys the effect is not quite the same. Use Venomthropes to make these guys even more survivable as a shield.
- Work on target priority against him. Try and predict his moves and force his hand. This is easier said then done as DE can be very very fast.
- Hive Guard can give them trouble. However with their nightshields, it can make things more difficult. Just use terrain and give him harder targets to fire at while the Hive Guard advance. Onslaught helps them a lot.
- Try to go second. Typically DE will always deploy far away from you and then use their speed to move into range. By going second and deploying behind terrain you will force him to move first, and then you can strike. However keep in mind this has a downside of your flyers being on the ground. Also by going second you won't allow him to do last turn objective stealing with his speedy vehicles, and it will give you one last chance to mop up.
Hope some of these ideas help you out. I can give more specific advice if we could see a quick write up of lists and the match.
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Post by malebranche on Oct 20, 2014 4:09:02 GMT
DE are my second army, and I find we can be as dangerous for them as they are for us.
- Almost all of their vehicles are only AV10. Yes they are fast, but if you can control the board you can wipe them out pretty easily even with our lack of anti-vehicle. Force them to jink to neutralize their guns.
- Take out venoms quickly. Those 12 poison shots are one of the biggest threats to out MCs. Raiders can cause a bit of pain too, but only fire one shot even if it is a powerful one. Reaver jetbikes are deadly when used right, and scourges can be quite dangerous but tend to be equipped with haywire blasters in all-comers lists. Find out what guns they have before the game, you dont want them pumping lances into your MCs and IDing your mid sized critters all game. Also keep track of which passengers are riding in which transports.
- Flyrants and crones absolutely decimate them. Voidravens and Razorwings are too fragile to stand up to vector strike and brainleech worms, and DE lack strength 10 weapons to take out crones and Harpies. However, they can drop 4 pie plates to wipe out swarms as soon as they arrive
- We have tons of AP 5 weaponry and they have very few 4+ or better saves. We have more than enough strength 6 to neutralize their fnp. Rending claws work well against them.
Both armies are actually pretty evenly matched imo. Their poison and lances can be deadly against us, but our weapons are just as effective against them. Its just a matter of target priority and board control - and who has what list.
As a special note I know I have a slightly unhealthy genestealer fixation so I may be biased, but consider small squads of infiltrating stealers for board control. This will force him to very careful where his vehicles go, making their maneuverability painfully useless unless he wants his AV10 shredded. They are far from being a hard counter, but they can help.
*edit* Also note that impaler cannons have ignore cover, so night shields will not help them
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Post by blackswarm on Oct 22, 2014 16:11:11 GMT
DE are the only army that posses a massive threat for me in my area. It doesn't really help that my best mate uses DE and likes to rub it in a bit when he wins. I've come close a few times but more often than not he kicks I strongly disagree.
One thing that I will be trying out next though is a ranged nid army with a void shield forcing him to shoot his Dlances 1st and throwing him off enough to take out his paper boats.
I have seen a pure flying nid force wipe the floor with them. The nid player goes 2nd and puts his flyers on a closed landing pad claiming the invulnerable save. On the nid first turn all MC's are then flying ( chuckling to himself )
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Post by gigasnail on Oct 22, 2014 19:36:18 GMT
I find them not really a huge deal anymore. Little to no ignores cover, everything in my army will a 2+ cover save.
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Post by blackswarm on Oct 23, 2014 16:57:31 GMT
The problem is the only Deldar player in my gaming group knows every army as good as his own. So things like venomthropes and/or malathropes are always the 1st to go :/ he is as good as a player as I am if not better, the only things that balance our games out are his dice rolling
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Post by gigasnail on Oct 23, 2014 19:16:19 GMT
Then let him shoot his entire army at my mal/venom or mal/mal or mal/mal/venom. That's what they're there for.
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Post by FTGT-BeeCee on Oct 24, 2014 18:24:23 GMT
yeah, playing the Nid castle is a great way to deal with DE.
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Post by jifel on Oct 28, 2014 13:57:20 GMT
So, has anyone played against the new DEldar? In 7th, Tyranids actually matched up pretty well with DEldar, but I haven't played the new stuff yet. I'm not too worried about most of their stuff though honestly, the changes to Night Shields help us. We can still glance them with our little bugs or blast them with our Devourers. In 6th our flamers on FMCs would just murder DEldar troops and I don't see that changing even slightly. Their flyers look decent but I would bet on a Flyrant any day with their low AV.
Will there be a new thread on this soon?
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Post by WestRider on Oct 28, 2014 14:11:21 GMT
I haven't played against them with Nids, but it seems like a decent matchup as long as you can maintain Shrouding. If they're firing all that Poison into 2+ Svs, it's not so bad, but when it's going into 3+, it's still enough volume to be dangerous.
We definitely have the advantage in the air. The really scary stuff on the Flyers is all Blasts, so they don't really have much except for a few Dark Lances to go after Flyrants with, and even the fire from a Jinking Flyrant is a serious threat to them in return, as are our Vector Strikes.
New Vs. Threads usually go up a couple of months after the Dex drops, to give everyone time to adapt to the new Dex.
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Post by phayze on Oct 31, 2014 8:13:04 GMT
I've been away from the Hive awhile now, actually building up Dark Eldar as my second army. Looking around at the book, Dark eldar were definitely geared towards decimating Tyranids. Poisoned shooting for MC's, AP5 for gaunts, S8 AP2 for IDing a lot of our stuff. What's worse is that all of this shooting is at 36" on platforms that can zip away at a moments notice. BUT 2 things are extremely hard for the dark space elves: cover saves and flyers. Stack cover with 'thropes and ruins and watch your opponent squirm breaking through a blob of 40 gaunts with 2+ saves.
DE's only flyers are AV10 on all sides, point some devourers or even fleshborers their way and they'll be forced to jink, losing almost all of its effectiveness versus our FMC's. The Razorwing comes stock with 4 S6 AP5 missiles that they can blow the turn it arrives. Castle up until his flyer arrives, then it's easy pickings from there.
One thing that I use extensively as a DE player that many others do not (as they prefer to stick to the tried and true methods) is null deployment, having absolutely nothing on the field and Deepstriking Scalpel Squadrons from the new Haemonculus Covens supplement, followed by everything else. Scalpel Squadrons carry a lot of poisoned shots, and bring the AP D6 S3 flamers. Once these Squadrons are in place, the rest of the army on their skimmers can deepstrike nearby, capitalizing on the formation's Ld debuff. all of the skimmers I use have Phantasm and Torment Grenade Launchers on them. Making their shooting targets take a Ld test and suffer wounds without armor or cover based on how much they failed by.
"Now hold on, it says that wounds cannot be allocated to models with ATSKNF or Fearles, so we are good, right?" Not as much as you think. Our synapse rule states that MODELS within 12" gain the fearless special rule. the rules for fearless give certain benefits to units with MODELS with fearless in them, but that doesn't give the rest of the models in the unit fearless. Therefore wounds CAN be allocated to those models. Castle up everything, and when he deepstrikes, shoot the AV10 skimmers out of the air.
Dark Eldar are very fast, and very weak. Castle your forces up with Malanthropes to stay in synapse and shrouded range waiting for his army to deepstrike in. your flyers should be fine swooping around after his flyers (if he has any) come on. flame the Raider transports with electroshock or drool templates, devourer his transports, assault his transports, do whatever you want to them to make them pop. A Dark Eldar unit on the ground is a dead unit. If you stay in a castle, he can sit back and shoot you at 36", but with 2+ and no way to ignore cover, he's going to sit out of range and keep you pinned down in your catsle to take objectives.
What do I do? move up as one big block. negate his ability to jump around, and he'll panic. Normal shooty troops have high initiative, but don't hit very hard in return. Place objectives near your army and he WILL NOT be able to take them back.
Good luck!
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Post by silenthunter13 on Dec 23, 2014 14:56:29 GMT
Had a game on 21/12/14 with Tyranids 1750pts vs DE 1750pts.
Base things to take away from the game.
- You will be depressed and how resilient their vehicles are due to jink.
- Everything has jink.
- If night fighting, jink is +1 for them only.
- Higher Init than you in CC.
- Low toughness DE infantry with cover, FNP.
- Everything that isn't a power weapon or husk blade seems to be poison (RIP MC).
- Firepower overwhelming.
- Tyranid players should buy Crones and templates. Flyrants with thorax upgrades for more templates. Dakkafexes take nice punishement before dying and their firepower is great vs infantry, slightly mediocre vs DE vehicles due to jink saves.
- Pychic has potential but rarely goes your way. DE LD tests are just like any others, lucky rolls of low dice means ineffective psychic.
- 5x Zoanthropes soak up huge firepower and can lay out decent firepower in turn, however if (as in my game) there is night fighting, prepare for 2+ jink saves everywhere.
- Crones completely wreck DE. Vector Str 8 AP 2, Drool Str 6 AP 4, swooping.
- DE lack skyfire apart from air units. Take them out with vector strike and easy money.
- Flyrant should stay swooping and be similar to AC-130 gunship, circling and using bare minimum of movement to continue classed as swooping.
- Close combat is 50/50 due to high initiative and poison but balanced out with poor Str and saves. You will find husk blades and other nasties but usually Str 3 or so, which is better than what you normally face.
- Small creatures in close combat are probably better than MC, although MC does ignore everything they have for defence. Downside is that MC will die due to poison saturation fire.
- No DE psychic (apparently)
- Once outside of their vehicles, a unit of Dakkafexes can kill anything the DE have in one volley.
I haven't tested other units that I normally run with, such as Mawlocks, Shrikes, Gargoyles or Tyrant Guard.
My abiding memory of the first two turns was that playing vs DE is almost... ALMOST... as depressing as playing vs Daemons. You just can't kill anything on the field anywhere near quickly enough.
You just have to take out the vehicles quickly with cover ignoring units (or CC), don't die to counter-charge and then sweep up the rest with the same. (Easier said than done) |
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Post by yowster12 on Dec 23, 2014 15:39:45 GMT
Their firepower is really something. But 2+ cover from malanthropes diminishes this. Flyrant's break vehicles reliably.
DE hate Blobs. All that poison amounts to some dead gaunts which can be mitigated severely with cover. As mentioned Crones are your friends. Strong vector strikes strong presence.
I found Tyrannofex to be quite effective. Roasting infantry inside vehicles while maybe taking a hull point off. And a good save to resist all that poison flying around. Becomes beastly if lucky and Onslaught is rolled.
All in all Not as Scary anymore IMO
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