Is the Dimachaeron going to be an Apocalypse only model?
|
Post by gigasnail on Jul 25, 2014 22:40:38 GMT
I'm curious whether niloc is "OKC" from the Dakka forums. All you'd really need to add is a comment about how much smarter he is than all the other Nid players. And no, I'm not a member of dakka. Nor do I think I'm smarter than anyone in particular. However this fourm tends to miss the point and wish think, and generally skip the acceptance phase all together, and that has to do with ego, not intilect. Just look, I make valid points and I get some vailed agreement, some more whining, and criticism. If you take issue with my tone, then I'm sorry you misread my intent. If you take issue with my argument, provide a better one. lol
|
|
|
Post by asmodas on Jul 25, 2014 22:43:48 GMT
And your failure to see it exemplifies why I singled you out Snailykins. I don't think launching ad hominem attacks on forum members is winning you any converts...
Look, no one thinks the Dima is "terrible." It just does something for Nids that we kind of didn't need - a big, slow moving MC that can kill stuff like crazy when (if) it hits combat. There are probably a number of ways to build a list to support it (rushing it with Malanthropes and maybe cover behind a T-Fex to give it a nice shrouded cover save), and I also think it could be pretty good at high points levels (where it doesn't matter as much because it is only <20% of your list and you can still take all the good stuff). I just keep looking at it and thinking how much it would cost in $ versus what it brings to the table. If money is no object, have at it.
|
|
|
Post by rogueaccount on Jul 25, 2014 23:02:22 GMT
i am the anti-pope, and i approve of this message. Made that specially for you giga.
|
|
|
Post by Silegy on Jul 25, 2014 23:02:49 GMT
Your welcome Snailykins. Im so glad I could be of service. I just get frustrated, we get this sweet new kit, and a new book, with rules that fix the malanthrope, and give us an answer to knights (brood of stonecrushers)... a new killy mc which is in fact situationaly faster than other mcs through terain, and less likely to be tarpitted (lack of fearless). And all anyone can do is gripe! *waaaah* it dosent have flesh hooks! *waaaah* its not a jump mc! Eldar get a jump mc! *waaaah* its new rules that none of us have even tried look situational! *waaaah* why can't they just give it a 2+? *waaaah* why is it only t6? D weapons and still instakill it! *waaaah* why can't it be gargantuan? Makes me sick. NONE of our units are amazing in a vaccum. The army works through target saturation and attrition. If any of the bonuses you want were on this or any other monster, it would just be put first in the kill order. As it stands, they are all cookie cutter so that the enemy has to make a hard choice as to WHAT to kill WHEN. You see easily killable slow killy mc, I see the perfect bullet magnet distraction for games 1-3 (zomg FW!), murder machine games 4-6 (it dies easily, focus elsewhere), then constant mental psych out once they figure out the 4+fnp after it eats Drago. It's good specificly because of what it dosent have. Which is why I simply stated: CRY LESS. (And Snailykins, that comment was observational, not acusitory.) OK, how about this: I dont give a (please do not swear) what its the statline of our new amazing MC. Because it not new and even less amazing. Just as I dont give a flying (please do not swear) about new Mala rules because there is nothing new about them. We got a Hormagaunt on steroids and Venomthrope on LSD. Whats next? Overgrown Hive Guard? And I do not care if it has flesh hooks. I do not care what type of (please do not swear) unit it is. Try to reword this: It has no shooting! YAY! It is slow! YAY! It charges into cover on I1! YAY! AMAZING UNIT! Well, I do not know about YOURS, but MY Codex: Tyranids is FULL OF THIS BULLCRAP.I have no idea whether or not the unit is going to be good or not. But I dont care, because even in the case it would be doing well, its design is (please do not swear). And well, as apparently you enjoy insulting other members of this forums so much: GO (please do not avoid the swear filter) YOURSELF.
|
|
|
Post by niloc on Jul 25, 2014 23:17:14 GMT
Your welcome Snailykins. Im so glad I could be of service. I just get frustrated, we get this sweet new kit, and a new book, with rules that fix the malanthrope, and give us an answer to knights (brood of stonecrushers)... a new killy mc which is in fact situationaly faster than other mcs through terain, and less likely to be tarpitted (lack of fearless). And all anyone can do is gripe! *waaaah* it dosent have flesh hooks! *waaaah* its not a jump mc! Eldar get a jump mc! *waaaah* its new rules that none of us have even tried look situational! *waaaah* why can't they just give it a 2+? *waaaah* why is it only t6? D weapons and still instakill it! *waaaah* why can't it be gargantuan? Makes me sick. NONE of our units are amazing in a vaccum. The army works through target saturation and attrition. If any of the bonuses you want were on this or any other monster, it would just be put first in the kill order. As it stands, they are all cookie cutter so that the enemy has to make a hard choice as to WHAT to kill WHEN. You see easily killable slow killy mc, I see the perfect bullet magnet distraction for games 1-3 (zomg FW!), murder machine games 4-6 (it dies easily, focus elsewhere), then constant mental psych out once they figure out the 4+fnp after it eats Drago. It's good specificly because of what it dosent have. Which is why I simply stated: CRY LESS. (And Snailykins, that comment was observational, not acusitory.) OK, how about this: I dont give a (please do not swear) what its the statline of our new amazing MC. Because it not new and even less amazing. Just as I dont give a flying (please do not swear) about new Mala rules because there is nothing new about them. We got a Hormagaunt on steroids and Venomthrope on LSD. Whats next? Overgrown Hive Guard? And I do not care if it has flesh hooks. I do not care what type of (please do not swear) unit it is. Try to reword this: It has no shooting! YAY! It is slow! YAY! It charges into cover on I1! YAY! AMAZING UNIT! Well, I do not know about YOURS, but MY Codex: Tyranids is FULL OF THIS BULLCRAP.I have no idea whether or not the unit is going to be good or not. But I dont care, because even in the case it would be doing well, its design is (please do not swear). And well, as apparently you enjoy insulting other members of this forums so much: GO F U C K YOURSELF. I present argument. You flail angrily. I bet your a really good person. Completely level headed. And totally in control. I bet you have alot of friends. Try not to knock the empty Dew cans off your desk while banging your head against the keyboard trying to reply.
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Jul 25, 2014 23:21:36 GMT
your argument consists of 'UN UH YOU'RE WHINING' which isn't really anything to respond to. dime is a mediocre unit, another nasty, slow MC with no delivery system. everybody knows the thing is killy, doesn't make a lot of difference.
|
|
|
Post by niloc on Jul 25, 2014 23:25:03 GMT
And your failure to see it exemplifies why I singled you out Snailykins. I don't think launching ad hominem attacks on forum members is winning you any converts...
Look, no one thinks the Dima is "terrible." It just does something for Nids that we kind of didn't need - a big, slow moving MC that can kill stuff like crazy when (if) it hits combat. There are probably a number of ways to build a list to support it (rushing it with Malanthropes and maybe cover behind a T-Fex to give it a nice shrouded cover save), and I also think it could be pretty good at high points levels (where it doesn't matter as much because it is only <20% of your list and you can still take all the good stuff). I just keep looking at it and thinking how much it would cost in $ versus what it brings to the table. If money is no object, have at it.
I disagree. I think we did need a melee threat like this. The trygon only plays at doing its job. And the haruspex is nearly a dedicated anti tank unit. I think if fills a much needed roll. It's being slow is just how the army works. Saying it wont make combat is to ignore the rest of the army.
|
|
|
Post by niloc on Jul 25, 2014 23:29:50 GMT
your argument consists of 'UN UH YOU'RE WHINING' which isn't really anything to respond to. dime is a mediocre unit, another nasty, slow MC with no delivery system. everybody knows the thing is killy, doesn't make a lot of difference. While I did say people are whining, it was not my primary argument. Mainly, its that the army works on target saturation and atrition. Which in order for the tactic to work, you need things that are not terribly different fron each other. The idea being that if you loose 2 or 3 big mcs before tying up the enemy, its ok because the others will be able to handle it. The purpose of this unit is not to just kill things. Its based around psyching out your oponent, and forcing them to make mistakes, and waste turns shooting at the wrong thing. Its redundancy is its greatest strength.
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Jul 25, 2014 23:32:09 GMT
a 200 point footslogger doesn't really help with that.
|
|
|
Post by niloc on Jul 25, 2014 23:32:33 GMT
I don't think anyone here has complained about the Malanthrope. General consensus seems to be happy with a Venomthrope with improved durability and Synapse. Agreed. Malanthrope is AWESOME! Glad I bought 2 of the little guys out of the used case back a ways.
|
|
|
Post by niloc on Jul 25, 2014 23:33:04 GMT
a 200 point footslogger doesn't really help with that. How does it not? I fail to understand. Can you provide evidence to go with your decliration?
|
|
|
Post by Magorian on Jul 25, 2014 23:38:10 GMT
Evidence? You mean like the history of the decked out close combat carnifex?
|
|
|
Post by niloc on Jul 25, 2014 23:50:10 GMT
I agree that the fex crushes face. No argument. However, as I've seen it said on this very forum many times,its better with x2 devs. In almost every situation. And its relatively low wound count coupled with low initiave means that the dima can survive combat against alot of things that would outright kill the fex before it swings. And the lack of ap on its HoW means that you cant count on it.
Yes the dima is expensive. But you get what you pay for. And the fex takes a heavy slot. Now the stone crusher is another story. But even it does other things namley raping knights and land raiders.
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Jul 25, 2014 23:53:43 GMT
Evidence? You mean like the history of the decked out close combat carnifex? this, pretty much. or the swarmlord. you need several things to be a good CC unit: enough wounds/resilient enough to make it into combat and still be effective (either by being cheap enough to spam, or having a good save, FNP, 2+ armor, w/e), be killy enough to matter once you do hit combat, and have a means to actually get into combat where needed. the only thing the dime excels at is that it's killy. it's still a land based (even if fleet) MC with no shooting ability.
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Jul 25, 2014 23:54:21 GMT
I agree that the fex crushes face. No argument. However, as I've seen it said on this very forum many times,its better with x2 devs. In almost every situation. And its relatively low wound count coupled with low initiave means that the dima can survive combat against alot of things that would outright kill the fex before it swings. And the lack of ap on its HoW means that you cant count on it. Yes the dima is expensive. But you get what you pay for. And the fex takes a heavy slot. Now the stone crusher is another story. But even it does other things namley raping knights and land raiders. you missed his point; a CC fex is pretty bad.
|
|
This web site is completely unofficial and in no way endorsed by Games Workshop Limited.
Adeptus Astartes, Age of Sigmar, Battlefleet Gothic, Black Flame, Black Library, the Black Library logo, BL Publishing, Blood Angels, Bloodquest, Blood Bowl, the Blood Bowl logo, The Blood Bowl Spike Device, Cadian, Catachan, the Chaos device, Cityfight, the Chaos logo, Citadel, Citadel Device, City of the Damned, Codex, Daemonhunters, Dark Angels, Dark Eldar, Dark Future, the Double-Headed/Imperial Eagle device, 'Eavy Metal, Eldar, Eldar symbol devices, Epic, Eye of Terror, Fanatic, the Fanatic logo, the Fanatic II logo, Fire Warrior, Forge World, Games Workshop, Games Workshop logo, Genestealer, Golden Demon, Gorkamorka, Great Unclean One, the Hammer of Sigmar logo, Horned Rat logo, Inferno, Inquisitor, the Inquisitor logo, the Inquisitor device, Inquisitor:Conspiracies, Keeper of Secrets, Khemri, Khorne, Kroot, Lord of Change, Marauder, Mordheim, the Mordheim logo, Necromunda, Necromunda stencil logo, Necromunda Plate logo, Necron, Nurgle, Ork, Ork skull devices, Sisters of Battle, Stormcast Enternals, Skaven, the Skaven symbol devices, Slaanesh, Space Hulk, Space Marine, Space Marine chapters, Space Marine chapter logos, Talisman, Tau, the Tau caste designations, Tomb Kings, Trio of Warriors, Twin Tailed Comet Logo, Tyranid, Tyrannid, Tzeentch, Ultramarines, Warhammer, Warhammer Historical, Warhammer Online, Warhammer 40k Device, Warhammer World logo, Warmaster, White Dwarf, the White Dwarf logo, and all associated marks, names, races, race insignia, characters, vehicles, locations, units, illustrations and images from the Blood Bowl game, the Warhammer world, the Talisaman world, Age of Sigmar and the Warhammer 40,000 universe are either ®, TM and/or © Copyright Games Workshop Ltd 1975-2020, variably registered in the UK and other countries around the world. Used without permission. No challenge to their status intended. All Rights Reserved to their respective owners.